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Re: Bad news for FLW regarding departing major sponsors. [Re: Tubby] #10413825 11/16/14 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted By: Tubby
Mark, my point is that probably 75% of the Elite pros are struggling financially however you find it hard to believe that because they have the latest and the greatest that they must be doing just fine. Do you have any idea where these guys sleep while they are on the road or what they eat just to save moneywort make it to the next tourney. Btw, I am clearly speaking for myself and no one else. As you know I spent a lot of time on the Elite tour this year. By biggest awakening was that these guys have very unique passion for fishing. At the end of the season a lot of them go home to "guide for pay" on their home lakes hoping they can save enough money for next season. You know this to be true because one your's and my friend tried it for two years. I respect everything you say with this exception. I have known you a long time and hope this will be received for what it is. Most of these guys barely make it.



IU think I am doing a poor job at trying to say what I mean on that part of it. No worries at all and I think we are just not getting our points across as good as in person. My words are not a knock on them and in no way is it relative to all of them. We have known each other long enough that nothing is being taken as anything than two guys talking. cheers

Moritz Chevrolet - 9101 Camp Bowie W Blvd, Fort Worth, TX - Monte Coon (817) 696-2003
Re: Bad news for FLW regarding departing major sponsors. [Re: Mark Perry] #10413836 11/16/14 12:39 AM
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You are correct there Mark.

Re: Bad news for FLW regarding departing major sponsors. [Re: Tubby] #10414016 11/16/14 01:20 AM
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Originally Posted By: Tubby
Originally Posted By: Mark Jones
Originally Posted By: whatsaweighin
Your lumping in hunting and fishing, and specifically tournament bass fishing. Hunting brings guns into play, the gun market is massive, I appreciate reaching the audience but football and nascar will get you the same audience basically and a lot more of them. Advertising is about trp first and I'm guessing the trp on all fishing programs combined is very small.


I give up... glad you're not in charge of the industry outlook and marketing spend for the companies who are here. cheers

Mark,
You are wrestling a pig in the mud. You are getting muddy and the pig likes it. Some people leave their blinders on without having any idea of what they are talking about. Very disappointed in some of Mark Perry's comments.


I guess you think something is wrong with my opinion, why don't you point out where I'm wrong. You can be butt hurt about it, that does not change the fact that it has as much main stream interest as ping pong, give or take.

Re: Bad news for FLW regarding departing major sponsors. [Re: Russell Olds] #10414352 11/16/14 04:04 AM
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I'd be willing to bet that Jones knows a little more than 99.9% responders on this thread regarding this topic.


“What’s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.”
Re: Bad news for FLW regarding departing major sponsors. [Re: Russell Olds] #10414361 11/16/14 04:15 AM
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Lol. Truth!

Re: Bad news for FLW regarding departing major sponsors. [Re: Russell Olds] #10414517 11/16/14 11:17 AM
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I don't think it's anything that FLW has done wrong; sure there are things they can improve, but they put out an excellent product--their TV tournament presentation/production and magazine are just as good if not better than BASS. What the FLW lacks is marketable star talent like KVD/Martens/Ike. Scott Martin is the FLW's biggest name, but I don't think his personality communicates well with many fishermen. Ehler, one of their most skilled, young competitors will be mostly on BASS tournaments next season.

What I see is the massive popularity growth of the NFL, college football, and now European football dominating the sports market. All the other sports seem to be in a TV viewership downturn (especially the highly sought after demographic for advertisers 18-35 years old)--baseball, tennis, bowling, golf, basketball, hockey all have struggling TV Nielson ratings. NFL preseason TV ratings were better than some of the Baseball World Series numbers.

Other factors--the drought--I know several people with the discretionary income to purchase an expensive boat aren't doing so--lots of unusable ramps west of Tawakoni. They are finding alternative ways to get on the water on vessels that can be manually carried or pulled to be launched from any shoreline.


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Re: Bad news for FLW regarding departing major sponsors. [Re: Russell Olds] #10414619 11/16/14 01:57 PM
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Bass fishing is a niche sport. It will only ever be so big or have so much sponsor or prize money. A lot of people who fish care nothing about tournament fishing. Few who don't fish or have someone connected to it care anything about it. Very small numbers relative to other Sports.

It's always going to be a struggle out there to make a living. A lot are going broke or spending money from other income sources.


The Sheep who only fears the Wolf is eaten by the Shepherd.
Re: Bad news for FLW regarding departing major sponsors. [Re: Mark Jones] #10414790 11/16/14 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mark Jones
Originally Posted By: whatsaweighin
Originally Posted By: Mark Jones
Fishing isn't a niche, it's actually a very large category and so is hunt. Non endemic brands do well here and love to engage outdoorsmen. It's a big category. There's more non endemic companies in our space today then there's been in a long time. BASS and MLF are proof of that.

The simple fact is that with BASS, FLW, MLF and the PAA all after those dollars someone has to win and someone has to lose. The sport will be better for it regardless.


Compared to golf, nascar, football, basketball, baseball, soccer, etc it's a niche, I would rate it well below poker also. Main stream just doesn't watch it. My wife will watch a lot of stuff, last day of masters, superbowl, America in world cup, she would not watch 2 seconds of the classic. Be realistic, it is what it is.


This logic assumes that brands look at this as an either or investment against those other sports/properties and they don't. There's an outdoor spend, a mass sports spend, a grass roots spend, etc etc

The actual programs or activations may be different for say a company like GEICO than they are for Pepsi but the category is important to their overall business. Spend a little time researching the size of the fishing/hunting industry and how much revenue it generates and you'll know why the brands are here.

The market is good, the economy (business wise) is good. The sky isn't falling. Everything's going to be fine.

My two cents

Many people equates marketing to strictly television. True, television is the prime media vehicle, but strategic marketing is another another animal. The fishing industry is collectively a $12Billion Industry. Boating being the biggest ticket item should share the lions portion...I don't think so. Is fishing a rather narrow market opposed to other sports, yes, but how do you account for the interest in todays fishing which is five times greater than it was a decade ago? Is it marketing? What is it that has attracted businesses to advertise in this "niche" market? Just as the consumer has options, so does the companies advertising. Is get too far fetched to suggest that a company might be able to reach the same demographic as NASCAR at a less expensive advertising dollar alternative? So, as stated, the sky is not falling. Times a changing, but the outdoor lifestyle will always be an advertising venue. My two cents!


"If you've quit learn'n, you might'as well quit fish'n cuz yer not catch'n as many fish as ya should be!"
Re: Bad news for FLW regarding departing major sponsors. [Re: Fishspanker] #10414889 11/16/14 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted By: Fishspanker
Bass fishing is a niche sport. It will only ever be so big or have so much sponsor or prize money. A lot of people who fish care nothing about tournament fishing. Few who don't fish or have someone connected to it care anything about it. Very small numbers relative to other Sports.

It's always going to be a struggle out there to make a living. A lot are going broke or spending money from other income sources.
This for sure even though fishing is 12 billion dollar part of our economy you have to section this piece of the pie out literally because of general interest and run with that in my book. It all boils down to people who are actually going to see the brand names in public both in person and on any type of media......
As for the 75% struggling tournament anglers I buy into that 100% from my own experience. I fished club and lower level tournaments and I had to do with out a lot things that most folks would consider common necessities to stay out there on the water.........It cost me just as much to roll my rig every weekend as does these guys. I still had the same repair bills as well and I did it with almost zero sponsorship. My dad owned a car dealership while I was out there and every once in a while I'd get him to spring for my fuel...........


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Re: Bad news for FLW regarding departing major sponsors. [Re: Russell Olds] #10414985 11/16/14 04:38 PM
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It's closer to 50 billion in the US. The last big report was from 2011, there will be another one coming in 2015. You can take these numbers and add another 5% or so and you'll be close to where we are today. This is of course taking into account all sport fishing of which bass is the largest segment.

http://asafishing.org/uploads/2011_ASASportfishing_in_America_Report_January_2013.pdf

Stop selling yourselves short and use the right numbers. thumb

Re: Bad news for FLW regarding departing major sponsors. [Re: Russell Olds] #10415323 11/16/14 07:34 PM
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Lots of good points made on this thread. I don't think it's prices related to fishing. For those that care to fish from the bank with an eagle claw hook and a zebco still have that option. That's about as cheaply as you can fish.

I tend to think sponsorship dollars leaving any sport (activity) is simply a matter of return on investment. These companies have marketing departments than spend many dollars on researching how effective their advertising strategies are to consumers. Have you gotten a survey request lately for something you bought, or somewhere you went? Every week for me. I would have to think that research has proven to these companies that their sponsorship/advertising dollar can yield a better return somewhere other than fishing.

Fishing has been compared to Nascar in this thread. Nascar has had a steady decline of viewership and attendance since 2008. (Hence multiple changes to the championship format to try to regain that attendance and viewership). If Nascar, is struggling to attract sponsorships, imagine the effect of the economy on fishing, which in popularity is minuscule compared to Nascar.

Professional fishing to me, except for the relatively few pros who have lucrative side deals that keep an income coming in for them, regardless of their finishes in events, is a low return on investment "profession".
Say a guy cashes a check...just a check... In every bassmaster elite event. 7 regular season events. He makes 35k if he's in the bottom 40 plus and 70k if he's above that. I'm excluding top 20 finishes because how many guys have numbers of those finishes? Not many. So if he is so good that he makes 70k in winnings. What are the entry fees? 4500 per event @ 31.5k, if he spends 1000 per event in expenses. You see where I'm going, the guy has made a grand total of 31.5 K for a year of professional bass fishing If he cashes a check in EVERY event. Pay the mortgage and groceries with that income.


Last edited by Petrucci; 11/16/14 07:35 PM.

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Re: Bad news for FLW regarding departing major sponsors. [Re: Russell Olds] #10415395 11/16/14 08:19 PM
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You forgot to add in the compensation that the pros get thru sponsors, product development fees, income from use of their image or naming rights, etc....If you're going to look at the expenses then you need to look at all their revenue not just winnings.

The fishing industry is far from the edge of the cliff.


“What’s good for me may not be good for the weak minded.”
Re: Bad news for FLW regarding departing major sponsors. [Re: HEAVY SACK (aka Crankinstein)] #10415438 11/16/14 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: HEAVY SACK (aka Crankinstein)
You forgot to add in the compensation that the pros get thru sponsors, product development fees, income from use of their image or naming rights, etc....If you're going to look at the expenses then you need to look at all their revenue not just winnings.

The fishing industry is far from the edge of the cliff.

Would you care to make a guess as to what that number would be for 30-100th ranked pro?

The entry fees are more than was stated earlier and there are 8 events.

Re: Bad news for FLW regarding departing major sponsors. [Re: Russell Olds] #10415442 11/16/14 08:42 PM
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I know what they are for your traveling partner......LOL


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Re: Bad news for FLW regarding departing major sponsors. [Re: Russell Olds] #10415451 11/16/14 08:45 PM
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Do you now?

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