Members of the forum... I see where some of you were wondering where I have been given all of the debate and input concerning the announced partnership between the TPWD and Dr Gary Schwarz of the La Perla Ranch, on the Jalisco Lake Project. I�ve been short on time as of late GregMKJr, I guess us "washed up" ball players have to find other things to do after 7 surgeries, but luckily, I�ve always liked hunting and fishing better if truth be known.

I�ve been wanting to post my personal thoughts about the debate concerning TPWD stocking bass into Jalisco Lake that has been taking place on the forum for the past few weeks, but have been filming a football movie and trying to get everything done for the upcoming year of the Tecomate TV shows at the same time. I didn�t know what I was getting myself into! Anyway, the director of this new movie wrote �Hoosiers� and �Rudy�, two of my favorite movies of all time. I don�t completely know what to expect, but I do know that the football was realistic enough that I came home bumped and bruised many nights. The movie is about Freddie Steinmark and the 1969 UT National Championship team. Freddie was a defensive back for the a Longhorns who played for the Horns in the year of the Big Shootout between Texas and Arkansas in 1969. He played most of the year with bone cancer in his leg and didn�t want to take a chance on missing the season to see a Doctor. He had his leg amputated after they were declared National Champions and didn�t live long afterwards. I�m playing Cotton Speyrer, who was an All-American WR on that team. It�s called �My All American� and if they decide to put it out this year it will probably be in theatres early Jan before the National Championship game.

Anyway, I absolutely understand the initial skepticism that some had on this project. I will admit, that like many of you, I have had my doubts about how much the Sharelunker Program was helping us, especially in light of the declining weights over the past 7 years or so. Not that I think Sharelunker is necessarily to blame for a lot of our Lakes going downhill � the main downside that I see in it is the added pressure lakes get when a ShareLunker (or several) are caught. In my opinion, the two biggest factors that have led to a decline in our lakes are the degradation/aging of them and pressure due to internet (I�m convinced that this effect is greater when a SAL is caught but this isn't going to change). The degradation of the lakes has a huge effect on forage. A lot of the underwater forest that used to be Lake Fork is now slowly decaying. I really believed Lake Austin was our best chance for a Lake not to be affected by aging. LA had a ton of hydrilla and is constant level (other than years past when they lower it for a period of time). I saw first hand how that lake exploded with the grass�. Now with the carp having been put in and Hydrilla eaten to nothing� I think we will soon see a decline there as well.
Let me say this though� How cool is it that we have a State that would even try something like the SAL program in order to help bass fishing in our Lakes? I love the thinking.

Having personally seen Jalisco and La Perla and the blood, sweat, and tears that Gary poured into both Lake projects (it�s hard to fully understand until you�ve seen it)� I believe 100% that the best investment TPWD could have ever made is to put Sharelunker fry into Jalisco Lake. The first fish Gary donates to the program could easily provide our public lakes with many times the amount of fry that TPWD put into Jalisco. If I had to guess� I think that will happen this year-- and from a Lake that TPWD had no involvement or INVESTMENT in creating. There is a reason why the editor of Bassmaster Magazine said that the La Perla bass projects were the biggest bass project to date in the history of the world. I can promise you that what Gary has done has come at a huge personal sacrifice. Gary has already said he will turn in bass to the SAL program and he didn�t buy the SAL fry that were stocked in Jalisco. And why would he? He�s not the one who will benefit from them� at least not for a looooong time.

To be truthful, Dr. Schwarz doesn�t need the SAL program. By that I mean he didn�t need them to give him fry from a SAL that didn�t come from La Perla. They shocked up a 14 lb bass in a survey at La Perla last fall that TPWD didn�t take because it wasn�t caught. I feel sure that we broke off a few SAL�s during SAL season this year. Gary definitely understands that he could have waited until SAL season coming up and in all likelihood he�d catch one out of La Perla to turn in. He caught a 12-6 four days ago. We caught several other 12�s this year � 2 in one day on a TV show and didn�t fish it hard at all. I probably fished 4-5 times� all during the middle of the day.
If he had waited and been able to turn in a SAL from La Perla this fall he would have received many more fingerlings from the La Perla SAL than what TPWD just put in to Jalisco. AND with absolutely NO TIES to or restrictions from TPWD. He could do whatever he wanted with it whenever he wanted from the word GO. It would all be the Gary Schwarz project. Think about this�. He signed a 15 year contract that gives him no control over his own Lake that he has a HUGE investment in in order to help TPWD and the Sharelunker program. Not only will most people on this forum never fish Jalisco� Gary Schwarz can�t even fish his own lake for 15 years unless TPWD invites him! Who would make that kind of a sacrifice and investment and hand it to TPWD to help bass fishing in Texas? Not me. Not anyone I know of. It�s hard for me to criticize that.
As mentioned, if and when a SAL is turned in from La Perla Lake this fall or in the next couple years and spawns� TPWD will get many times the amount of fingerlings that they put in to private Jalisco�.. to put into PUBLIC Lakes! So� to answer the question of why were Sharelunker fingerlings put into a Private Lake? Because TPWD saw the opportunity to take advantage of something that�s already been funded and built, that is truly incredible� which Gary has basically donated to TPWD in order to grow other SAL�s to enter into the program. PLUS, they�ll get SAL�s from La Perla Lake as a bonus. Thank goodness Allen Forshage recognized that the cost/benefit ratio made it a no brainer from their end. If anybody is a loser on this deal it's Schwarz. If anybody else had built what Gary did TPWD would probably invest SAL fry with them too. I think they�d be stupid not to. With several large forage ponds (that can be drained into the lake) that make up 50% of the acreage of the entire lake, the nutrition (prawns included) they will get at Jalisco is obviously far superior to anything they could get in a public lake situation. Plus, they�ll manage the Lake to make sure it�s not overpopulated. What this creates is an incredible opportunity to grow several more Sharelunkers that can be donated to the program... and provides an opportunity to release the resulting SAL fry into PUBLIC lakes in amounts that wouldn�t have been possible otherwise.

Another thing to consider is the incredible advantage the SAL fry TPWD stocked in Jalisco will have as far as survival rates. I have no doubt that the fingerlings that came from Frank Kirk's SAL stocked in Jalisco will have the highest survival rate of any SAL stocking in history. They have 0 predators at this point. It�s them and 15 times the standard stocking rate of fathead minnows. And who do you think paid for all those fathead minnows? Not the state� not Toyota�..the same person who funded everything else on this deal. They will be stocking on a timeline with bluegill and shad when the fingerlings grow to appropriate size so they aren�t vulnerable to predation. Another note...Let�s say a SAL is caught from Jalisco in year 6 or 7 when TPWD test fishes it and they take it to Athens. When the �home lake� percentage of fry go back to Jalisco they can be initially stocked into one of the 15 acre forage ponds above the lake to be grown with fathead minnows and released when they are close to a pound. Therefore they won�t be nearly as vulnerable to predation from adult bass already in the lake and will again have exponentially higher survival rates. The same is true for any SAL from Jalisco in the 15 years that TPWD controls it� and I wonder who will be the first person to help TPWD after those 15 years are up? I know where my bet is.

These are just my thoughts... although I do have the added perspective of having seen what�s going on at La Perla� and I also know Gary Schwarz�s heart for people, our state and our fisheries. I personally see a lot of potential benefits with what�s going on at La Perla� and as a bass fisherman on public lakes in Texas� TPWD stocking SAL fry into Jalisco might end up benefiting you more than you think.

Jordan,
Excellent read. Exciting stuff,
The future looks awesome for SAL.
Thanks again.

Excellent read. Congrats on the movie. Hook'em!!

Mr. Shipley, my comment on "washed up" was an ignorant uncalled for comment. You accomplished much more during your career than most can only dream of. Good luck hunting and fishing and whatever your future career may bring.

You have been reading and listening to some sound lake management strategies.

Please explain to us how stocking a private lake and feeding these bass under a controlled environment is going to benefit our public waters? Remember, TP&W has been trying this experiment for many years. The only difference is the location and feeding program. Maybe just explain how to replicate what Mr Schwarz is doing with his private lakes to get the same result in public waters? The only thing it will benefit is Mr Schwarz.

Here is another good read.

http://www.tackleandrods.com/lake/flash.htm

Jordan,
You also mention Mr Schwarz is willing to donate a future SAL from La Perla to TP&W for spawning purposes. What if that fish dies? It has happened numerous times before regardless of how well this fish care has been. What would be the monetary loss on his investment? Just something for him to ponder.

Well, all this is wonderful except for the fact that NONE of what happens at this private lake will be transferable to a large public impoundment. Every SAL to date has been a pure Florida stocked by the state and that is no different than what is in the new experiment. Many say that some genetic breakthrough will be made, what's that going to be, a fish that learns to thrive with few predators/competition and an abundance of food? Again NONE of this will be transferable.

It's great that the Dr. has given up his lake for some propose but what is that. My guess is he wants to grow the biggest bass in the state and possibly the world. Again, how does this help Texas? The butt kissing is at a max level and with no real apparent gain for the SAL program or the state. Now as I said in another thread I would watch this and hope that some good either practical or genetic comes from it, but not holding my breath.

Sure are a lot of people that are gonna be taking back what they said from the last thread...

Sucks that 98% of us will never fish one of those lakes

chet I can think of one possibility right of the top of my head, food sources for maximized growth. I doubt seriously we have any prawns here in fork, do not know if they would be a good or bad thing here either but if it is found that a hybrid bass can grow to substantial size consuming them would it not be a benefit to all lakes if prawns were introduced (provided they are not harmful in any way). I use that as an example

it amazes me that so many are so po'd over 7,000 fry being stocked in a lake that NO ONE can fish for 15 yrs. unless tpwd invites them.
y'all need to get the hell over it and realize there just might be some good come from this, not everything is some conspiracy from the govt. to screw us (although most things lately seem to be).

["Well, all this is wonderful except for the fact that NONE of what happens at this private lake will be transferable to a large public impoundment."]
Again, that's exactly the point... and it's the reason TWPD stocked Jalisco! You could never replicate the potential success rate that Jalisco will have for growing SAL sized fish in public waters, and I don't think any one else will do it in private waters. If you're still thinking in terms of replicating what Doc is doing with Jalisco in public waters you've way missed the point of my post. Per your above comment... the one thing that is absolutely transferable to a large public impoundment is a big portion of SAL fingerlings from both La Perla Lake and Jalisco when SAL's are turned in.

Thanks Jordan! I was anticipating your response to what some on here have turned into a controversy for NO apparent rational reason.

Again, this study can not be replicated in N. Texas due to the temperatures of the water and the mortality rate of the prawn, area specific, which is why La Perla and Jalisco are so valuable for the research TFF!

So is the point of this to capture MORE (total)each year fingerlings from SAL fish? Or are these fingerlings coming from these private waters going to be of substantial higher biological quality for some reason? I don't think feeding them more changes their genetics??? I could be wrong...As soon as you release these fingerlings into public waters they go back to the current food sources we have now and I wouldn't expect them to do any better than the fish we currently have. Thinking long term, how is this a long term sustainable to our public fisheries? I'm sorry if these are ignorant questions.

Why'd you name it Jalisco?

[quote=horseplaydvm]Jordan,
You also mention Mr Schwarz is willing to donate a future SAL from La Perla to TP&W for spawning purposes. What if that fish dies? It has happened numerous times before regardless of how well this fish care has been. What would be the monetary loss on his investment? Just something for him to ponder."]
At this point I don't think in terms of a monetary investment any of this makes a lot of sense for Gary and he'd be the first to tell you. I know he would be heartbroken if one of his La Perla lake fish died, but I don't know how or if he would equate that to a monetary loss. I didn't post my opinions above to make Gary look like some kind of a Saint either. I just felt like it was important to say why I thought TPWD stocked Jalisco... the fact is that is probably wasn't the best thing for Gary - It doesn't always make sense to me why he let them stock Jalisco when I personally don't think he needed them. But that's Gary. What did TPWD lose? They made a 7,000 (or whatever it was) fingerling investment in something that Gary had poured a significant portion of his livelihood into. Why did Gary do it? Only he can say.

["Please explain to us how stocking a private lake and feeding these bass under a controlled environment is going to benefit our public waters? Remember, TP&W has been trying this experiment for many years. The only difference is the location and feeding program. Maybe just explain how to replicate what Mr Schwarz is doing with his private lakes to get the same result in public waters? The only thing it will benefit is Mr Schwarz."]

Last question first - What Dr. Schwarz is doing is 100% impossible to replicate in public waters. And that is EXACTLY the point of my post! This has nothing to do with transferring the Jalisco lake system to public waters and everything to do with transferring SAL fingerlings that come from donated La Perla and Jalisco Lake fish that can and will be put into PUBLIC waters. As I said above, If you're still thinking in terms of replicating the Jalisco system we're on totally different wavelengths. Somebody would be very hard pressed to even replicate it in private waters.

Anyway -- I just wanted to weigh in on the situation.. just my thoughts - definitely not saying I'm right on this and it will take time to see what happens. I'm also not saying it for sure will work... But was it worth TPWD putting 7,000 fingerlings into Jalisco for us to find out? I believe it was. We'll all have to watch and wait I reckon. I'm glad I live in a state where a whole lot of folks care about our fishing!

I don't understand. So many people on here complaining because it doesn't benefit them, instead of sitting back and watching where this goes. This is a really awesome project that they are working on, and the fact that they will donate a portion of the SAL's caught out of either lake is commendable. I personally can't wait to see the results, regardless of whether it directly affects me or not.

Everybody should be happy that this happened. Because South Texas basically got a fish hatchery out of this. Hopefully the fry and any of the culled adult bass that are taking out of this lake project are stocked back into public waters.

20 years from now all the TFF'ers opposed to this will be sitting around drinking beer and bragging to their out-of-state friends about how TEXAS grew the world record bass, hypocrites!

The way I see it 7000 fry is just a drop in the hat to what the SAL program produces every year. Next year when they donate a fish, in all likelihood it will produce way more fry than what they recieved. But I am looking at the potential for the future. You have two lakes that will produce large numbers of SAL sized fish, they have the potential to donate 5, 10, 15 fish or more a year to the SAL program. This could make an impact on Texas fisheries by putting a larger number of good genetic fish back into public waters. Dr. Schwarz seems to have the mind set to improve all fisheries not just his, and after he reaches his world record size fish I am sure he will start donating more fish per year back to the SAL program.

#1 TPWD cares nothing about improving the bass fishing in Texas.

#2 LA Perla cares nothing about improving the bass fishing in Texas.

#3 These marketing or save face post need to be in plugs or announcements.There should be monthly a "La Perla giveaway" for all of this free promotion on the TFF.

#4 Lot's of talk for a lake that has only produced 12lb fish. If a record is coming from private water, Camelot Bell has the better chance and is years ahead of La Perla. Camelot Bell genetics dominate over anything that TPWD could offer.

What do you think is going to happen to lake pressures when and if you guys create a 20+lb Bass? The public will automatically assume theres 20 lbers in every lake...

Bro...I think you need a hug.

If you believe that SAL fingerlings are any different from the pure Floridas that could be used maybe. I've yet to be shown any real benefit to large impoundments, and that's all I'm saying. If something comes out of this that improves Texas fishing I'll be the first to say great work, but just not holding my breath.

Here is a simple fix for TWPD if they truly cared about improving bass fishing. Scrap the gimmick sharelunker program and focus on getting grass back into your lakes which 90% of them now lack.

Don't pay any attention to Dan. He has a Yankee sense of humor.

JD - It hurt so bad losing the grass on Austin. And it's still hurting! I agree that there are other things TPWD can do that may significantly impact our fishing in a positive way.

I'm not saying that I personally believe the SAL program is going to prove to be worthwhile for the Texas Lakes. I've had my share of concerns. What I am saying is that if they're going to do it, I think putting some fingerlings into Jalisco was a smart move on their part.

True story but fluctuations in water levels can't be predicted or stopped on a few of the lakes where grass is beneficial. Now there are a few lakes, conroe and austin, where the grass was obviously creating a super fishery but the homeowners nixed that process.

Bottom line is, the future of bass fishing in Texas is not an exact science and we can sit here and arm chair biologist all day but its not going to change what's at hand. Let it play out and see what happens, pray for more rain on our "super lakes" and enjoy what we have while we have it. It could be way worse!

TPWD doesn't care about the improving fishing in Texas? Where else can you go and it takes 30+ lbs to win nearly every tournament? In the last 20 years the fishing in this state has improved tremendously.

Yep, when the homeowners can't back their boats out of their already HIGH taxed property because of grass, fishing is irrelevant when it comes to chemical treatment! Sad but true!

30 pounds?

+1. It doesn't take near 30lbs for any lake. And those 30lb sacks are mostly spring time weights. And to answer the question you can go to Florida, Louisiana, Oklahoma, California, Alabama, and Tennessee to get those same results.
The only thing I will say towards Jalisco is IF we turn it into a hatchery that will be ok. Problem is I've come to realize from all of this that the whole program is a HUGE waste of tax payers money. If you want to breed big fish then breed big fish. Why not take a year class of pure floridas, pick the fastest growers of the bunch and shove food down their throats. Spawn those couple of fish and stock some lakes. The political show and waste of money brought to light from all of this is the real problem.

What tax dollars? SAL is funded by private donations.

So if you take the offspring from a 300" buck from a high fenced pen and release them onto public land, will they grow up to be another 300" buck?

No...

Genetics are only part of the equation... they need nutrition and habitat. I believe it's the same with these fish. If they don't have the same nutrition as they have in the private lake, then they won't grow to be as big as their parents... increase our lakes nutrition is the only way to improve our public fisheries. However I am curious to see what theyes can produce from a test tube...just like it's interesting to see how big a buck you can grow in a pen.

I think texas is a great state to bass fish with huge bass, but with that being said I don't think a world record bass or state record that has been farm raised or given a more advantage in food, genetics, and overall better life is going to mean much to most anglers. In my opinion you kinda diluting the sport with the sal program. I'll probably get a big kick back for that comment.... Lol but if a man has enough money to stock the hell out of a big pond or small lake go for it, I'm jealous. Again I think texas is a good enough fishery without a sal program.... To me it's about the sport of catching bass and for that once in a lifetime double digit bass.(for the weekend angler) if that bench mark can be met or broken every other year, it kinda defeats the purpose. I hope that they can produce big bass at Jalisco and their customers have fun and their expierience and experiment is a good time. I'm old school though, but I know the sport will always change..... Fish finders, down,side imaging, a rigs..... Doesn't mean it's wrong, just changing

Who pays the salaries of the TPWD agents who work with sals? Who will be paying for the shock boats and other equipment used to do these experiments? Donations may fund PART of the stuff used in the program but not all of it.

["Genetics are only part of the equation... they need nutrition and habitat. I believe it's the same with these fish. If they don't have the same nutrition as they have in the private lake, then they won't grow to be as big as their parents... increase our lakes nutrition is the only way to improve our public fisheries."]

For the record I agree with this for the most part.. With the added component of Florida vs Northern strain bass. Research has shown that Northern strains are going to dilute the Floridas in time. My feeling has always been that because of the limited number of SAL fingerlings that end up available to be released, TPWD might be better served to focus on stocking as many pure strain Florida's into our lakes as possible... regardless of whether or not they are SAL's. I think that... along with finding ways to increase the nutrition and forage base should always be the first priorities for TPWD. Then if they want to focus on SAL on top of that, ok by me.

No need for debate here... The next state record Bass is more than likely going to be caught by a Non-Bass fisherman on live bait.

First off. Well spoken Jordan. I may not be much of a UT fan but I do appreciate people posting here with a high level of thought and intelligence. You might even have convinced me to watch a movie about UT football.

Second, it is funny to me how the majority of the best big bass fisherman on this forum are not against this type of work. The biggest opponents have shown little proof over time that they have any success or factual knowledge when it comes to big bass.

I understand this is a forum for discussion and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I guess we can continue to have the same arguments over and over with the hopes that maybe someday everyone else will change and the world will work the way we want it to. Either that or maybe just be happy for what we have and be positive about the potential of projects attempting to grow bigger bass.

Man, what a debate! None of the money used on the SAL fish program came out of anyone on this forums pocket (Unless you donated it), the fish were donated to the program, So who gives a dam if they are trying a fish management program in order to find out if certain variables produce bigger bass? I personally commend Schwarz for what he is doing, he is the one giving up land, money for feed, time, etc, etc.

Who cares if they got 7000 fingerlings, they are going to feed the fish more than they can eat and will produce sal fish faster than any other lake can. Year around warm weather+ Being the most well feed bass in the state will allow the fish to reach sal weights quickly, if they are turning their fish in to the sal program the program will recieve more fish from them than any other one lake in the state. Allowing tpwd to spawn more sal fingerlings to stock public waters with. I don't understand all the crying about it, the money could sure be spent in worse ways IMO.

I hope along with everyone that fishing continues to improve and we can grow bigger fish. However, I also know you have to do that with superior genetics in a natural environment. Is anyone associated with this project really going to try to spawn a 13lb + fish with a chance of that fish dying? What if it was the only fish with the potential to grow to 20lbs? I would never take that chance!
Maybe Fouzman knows if Camelot Bell would ever donate a fish? I know they have caught several over 13 lbs and I have not heard of one being donated.

Mike has his own sharelunker system in place where he is breeding his 14 pound females with 8 pound males. I've seen it.

Camelot Bell would be happy to donate a 13lb fish as long as you give them $16,000 for it. That's what they are going for...

I can't speak for Mike Frazier with regards to whether he might someday donate one of his fish to SAL. There are a bunch caught every year that would qualify, but to date none have been donated.

He culls heavily every year, but those fish are sold to other ranches/lakes managers to improve their genetics.

The spawning system Dan referred to is a cooperative effort with Overton Fisheries. Mike or guests catch the big females and males. They spawn at the ranch and are allowed to grow to about 3 inches before harvest. Overton markets the fry from that operation.

As to the prices listed on his website to buy a giant bass, those are similar to the prices the Texas Deer Association publishes for deer sold at auction. Not always as it seems.

[quote=Jordan Shipley]["Genetics are only part of the equation... they need nutrition and habitat. I believe it's the same with these fish. If they don't have the same nutrition as they have in the private lake, then they won't grow to be as big as their parents... increase our lakes nutrition is the only way to improve our public fisheries."]

For the record I agree with this for the most part.. With the added component of Florida vs Northern strain bass. Research has shown that Northern strains are going to dilute the Floridas in time. My feeling has always been that because of the limited number of SAL fingerlings that end up available to be released, TPWD might be better served to focus on stocking as many pure strain Florida's into our lakes as possible... regardless of whether or not they are SAL's. I think that... along with finding ways to increase the nutrition and forage base should always be the first priorities for TPWD. Then if they want to focus on SAL on top of that, ok by me. "

One other thing that in my opinion should be a HUGE priority for TPWD if they want to really make a difference- and I absolutely agree with James Bendele on this-- The alligator gar on Choke and Falcon are absolutely out of control. I personally believe that when spawning, bass are very vulnerable to predation by alligator gar. Have had buddies watch big females get tomahawked right off of their beds. They've got to get them under control.

Jeret, respectfully, this is one of the few posts of yours that I applaud!

I don't mean to derail, but through work I have had numerous communications with Cotton over the last several years and he seems like a great guy. He has helped me immeasurably when I have needed answers. I tried to meet with him the last time I was in Austin but we didn't cross paths. What's "funny" is that I am an Arkansas fan who is old enough to remember the Big Shootout and Cotton Speyrer during his days as a Longhorn. He was a great player who made one game saving play after another and was about as responsible for Texas' back to back national championships as anyone.

Hope the jealous and contrary types don't run Gary and Jordan off. I enjoy hearing about La Perla. I believe in selective breeding programs with fish because an uncle of mine did it with trout in Idaho. I think what Gary is doing could result in bigger fish for all of us at some point. I'm skeptical of a world record being grown in South Texas because of the heat, but a State record is very possible. Best of luck!

Thanks David,
I actually think a lot of people are tired of hearing about La Perla, and I know I am getting tired of this controversy myself. Differences of opinion are part and parcel to our world, and there is no way around it, but it still hurts when you are the object of criticism.

There is one question on here I think I need to answer, but won't have time until this evening. Meanwhile, again, thanks.
Gary

I just wish TP&W would manage bass for ALL fishermen and not just bass fishermen.

+1

I enjoy hearing about what they got going on down there as well. Pretty cool stuff that I think will benefit in the long run.

I guess I have not been following the entire conversation. So is La Perla a new public lake?

No, La Perla is the name of Dr. Schwarz's Zapata County ranch and the big lake that he built on the ranch. Jalisco is Dr. Scwarz's new lake on La Perla Ranch.

Don't let the negative nancy types get you discouraged. As with most things in life, there are different opinions. It's your money, your lake, your ranch. Do what you want to do.

If you try to be honest and transparent with information like this, I think you'll always have people expressing dissenting opinions. It's OK and it's what makes our country great. We all have the opportunity to express our opinions on a forum like this.

Keep up the good fight.

Dr. Scwarz's I for one think its great what you are doing. I have a few questions. Do you know how the TPW are going to go about culling fish out of the lake and do you know what they will do with them? Second do you know if they will do any kind of grass studies in your lake? The last question I have is do you have any planes on doing any culling out of La Perla lake and if so are you going to donate them to TPW to stock into public waters?

Talk about poking the hornets nest again.

I think it is great what you are doing! Opinions are like a$$ holes and you are sure to get a lot of them on a public forum with this many participants! At the end of the day, everybody on this forum would LOVE to have a crack at fishing one of your lakes. Since most won't, there will always be some disagreement, but I would not let that drag me down, that is the great thing about this country we live in! We are allowed to have an opinion!!!

Good Lord!

Justin, why the heck would the doc give away cull fish from La Perla Lake? That was his baby long before Jalisco. See my post above re:disposition of bass culled from CB.

Contrary to popular belief, grass in a private lake such as these is no bueno. Filters nutrients which makes it hard to control water quality. +, you want your predators to have unimpeded access to all forms of forage.

The fingerlings in Jalisco have everything they need to attain record growth rates.

That means we'll begin to see definitive results from this experiment in 6-8 years. At that point, I may have to eat my words, though I doubt it.

Think about that for a sec. 8 years. And some are ready to crucify one of the more forward thinkers w/in TPWD and a landowner/dr/self-taught wildlife AND fisheries biologist. Blows me away!

In the meantime, I'm happy that I live in a state where the stewards of our habitat and wildlife work hand-in-hand with landowners. Constantly pushing the envelope.

Well said Fouz!

Dr. Schwarz and Mr. Shipley, yall should come over to Texas Hunting Forum (the sister site of this forum) and join us over there. We are a bit more friendly.

A +.++ for marketing is what I think. Little articles are popping up every where the last couple days. This is by design I'm sure, nothing wrong with it but it is an ad campaign pure and simple.

I find the project an interesting venture. What I personally envision the long term result producing is not about a state or world record, SAL donations or replicating a multi thousand acre reservoir to a much smaller controlled environment................ but moreso a niche that could open the door for more "private water fishing facilities" that will cater to people who want to experience the thrill of a trophy fish on the end of their line and not have to spend countless dollars and hours on Fork, Falcon, et al.

That's fine too. A place for everybody and everybody in their place, if you will.

You did the right thing, don't worry about it.

I don't see what all the hub bub is about. There are hundreds of private lakes and hunting leases throughout the state of Texas who have been raising and developing enhanced game stocks with the help of TP&W for many years. Most of them are low profile properties that don't get much notoriety while others are more commercially publicized, and I see no reason why this venture would be any more controversial than any that came before it. What a private landowner wants to do with his property is his business as it should be. Odds are that this particular experiment (weather it is successful in enhancing bass genetics or not) will become a playground for well connected people within the industry at the very least or possibly a profitable endeavor that might also contribute to the state fisheries as a whole. Either way I'm ok with however it turns out.

Yes sir, that was good and I agree with him about the program. I don't care about the Jalisco stocking and I find it sad that Dr. S. felt the need to lose his lake to the state. There is still something undisclosed about this whole deal.

Funny how a lot of you guys bashed the idea at first. Then when he gave away 2 trips everyone loved the idea. Now it's back to being horrible since you weren't one of the lucky 2

Hey Whatsaweighin it is crazy what is happening now, I know. I understand your assumptions, but I can absolutely guarantee you that it is happening beyond our control my friend. I know you have all seen paid adds in newspapers. Most are full page, but the fact that they are paid for is announced for all to see when you read the announcements in the margins, by the different looking print, and by the obvious fact that they are NEVER on the front page.

A writer from the SA Express called me last week on Wednesday with 30 minutes of questions, and apparently did the same with TPWD SAL head man, Allen Forshage. He then wrote an on-line piece only that went out at 11AM on Friday, as per what he told us he was doing. None of us thought it would go anywhere. It was sort of a minor thing, to be honest with you....Just another blip on the radar screen. Boy were we ever wrong.

On Monday morning, the same writer, Joseph Cook called to tell me that over the weekend that one of the editors of the paper called him to say he had read it, and loved the story so much that he wanted it run in the Monday paper edition ON THE FRONT PAGE! Are you kidding me!!!!! That is crazy, nuts kind of stuff. Like I said before, nobody can make that stuff up, or what happened next, which is absolutely more........crazy illogical stuff.

For whatever reason, other papers and news outlets picked up on it, and it has now basically gone viral. Allen and I had nothing to do with that other than answering a few questions from a young writer looking for a filler story that would most likely die on the vine, except it did not. Now, the story has gone world wide, and it is spreading by the hour. The last one I just saw was in Asia.....Wow.

Whatsaweighin, I don't mean to demean you in any way, because I know you honestly thought we orchestrated this, but please, do this for me. Find some add guy in your area who knows the business, and ask him or her if 10 million could buy this kind of publicity. It is all so very improbable, as is my whole life story.
Thanks for your thoughts man,
Gary

Look, I have zero gripe with the whole deal, as I pointed out in the original thread I am fine with state putting fishing in the lake. If they deemed it a viable test lake and your cool with the program more power to the both of you. It will be interesting to see what comes of it. I heard the term "on the bleeding edge" in a meeting the other day and that's probably where you are right now, a lot of money outlayed, not sure what result will be, mixed reviews from the peanut gallery and having to duck and dodge a spear or 2. I get it. I do think there is a marketing side to it, I have no problem with that. I don't see anything wrong with that, it doesn't appear your saying anything untrue and I'm sure threads like this draw a lot of attention as do articles, YouTube, etc. bet your web page hits have gone through the roof. Big bass gets people fired up. That's a good thing. There will be some who find a way to shoot holes in the deal, they weren't going to be customers anyway. For those that are interested they will take a look at what you have to offer. Again nothing wrong with any of the above and no hard feelings should be taken from this. 10 million would buy plenty of advertising, nothing wrong with a little low cost marketing as I do it myself. I truly hope the program and the process shed some new light and help further the cause of big bass in the state of Texas. Proceed and best of luck with your venture.

I thought I heard a loud sucking sound........

So what is the difference in this and the concessions TPWD has given to high fence ranches, whitetail breeder programs, and the privatization of Texas whitetail in our state....
Perhaps in time we can have "private" water records and public water records for Bass.

Anyways.......

This is so true.

"It is all so very improbable, as is my whole life story.
Thanks for your thoughts man,
Gary

_________________________
La Perla Ranch
Zapata County, Texas
tecomateranch.com"

Quoted.

Ain't America GREAT!

An "improbable life story," mine as well. Just gotta love it.

Nowhere else on planet Earth is the improbable as possible as it is in "These United States. "

I mean it lets all of us be both Monday morning quarterbacks and armchair fisheries biologists, as we see a lot of in all these um, er, uh...comments.

If so many of yall feel such a need to be outraged, there are indeed, extremely important and truly outrageous things for such, this ain't one of 'em.

Of some import, perhaps, but not life and death, and just not very high on the outrageous meter, not even a blip.

How would yall feel about "storing" SAL fish in private fishing lakes? Or just flat out stocking private waters full up with everything needed for a fishery, as a political favor? How about "giving" large bass caught by "on the clock" state technicians with state equipment from state waters to the owners of "hog troughs" for display, abuse and eventual death at fishing shows? Or just simple crazy, politically based rule making across the board? I mean, a nine day red snapper season, really? I mean if you need outrage, its out there, plenty of it and genuinely outrageous.

For the record, as a fisheries biologist, native Texan, and Texas fishing license (all water) holder, I fully support TP&WD and the efforts on their part and the part of private enterprise, in this case La Perla Ranch, and its owner(s) and employees, in the further research and development of our state's freshwater fishery resources, through scientific discovery and other means.

So for the record, if none of the conditions in this experiment can/will be duplicated in public waters, how will this benefit Texas fishing in general? Maybe that has already been answered in another post but if it was I missed it.

What is the benefit of this program vs just stocking pure Florida strain? That is how it all got started. 28 years of the SAL and doesn't seem like the size of the SAL fish in public waters are increasing. Why not just increase the amount of pure Florida strain in public waters? Why are SAL entered fish that are not pure Florida strain rejected. If the fish reached 13lbs plus without being pure Florida strain, it must have something going for it.

I realize some of the "experts" resent the questions and negative outlook but that is part of the checks and balances. Since it is our tax dollars we need to question how and why it is being spent, especially if it has the appearance of not being for the public good. Just because something is done by the government (state for federal) certainly does not automatically make it the right thing to do.

Maybe if TPW was more forthcoming with information on what they are doing and why there might be less skepticism.

The answer was that they will be sending SAL's to the program that are grown from the SAL fry donated to La Perla. And that is a positive if you believe that the SAL fry are anything but Florida's which as you said, can be stocked now. I hope that something will come of the experiment but it's not clear what.

And as an aside not sure why so many folks take offence to some questioning of the program and blindly feel that anyone that questions it is some sort of a jealous whiner. I could and I'm guessing others could afford to fish it if that was a priority and as anything else in life (sport, women, bird dogs etc.) there are two sides to any question. Yet it seems in the case of La Perla any questions or opinions are viewed as negative/hostile. As Fousman said in 8 or 9 years we will know if they are on to anything special in the mean time debate is healthy.

CAN I GET AN AMEN???!!!!

It's called the scientific method. We use scientific controls to better isolate an independent variable and weigh its effect on the outcome. It's actually the onus of those who started the SAL program. Will we realize that the individuality of the genetics of micropterus salmoides floridanus be deemed a non-factor 20 years from now? Possibly. Does it mean the experiments shouldn't be done just because you found out you were wrong? Absolutely not.

So while you guys call foul so more section eight housing can be put up with our tax dollars, I say experiment all you can on the green devils.

Fixed your post.


What?

But this topic isn't about any of those other things. Its about the wasteful spending of tax money on a program that is basically just a playground for biologist to "test" theories. If Dr. Schwartz wants to create a million big bass lakes, that's ok, but its not ok to waste public money on it. I understand SALS will be donated back but that doesn't change the fact of the waste of money. That money would be well spent on maybe, more lake patrol on these dfw lakes or lakes like Conroe, better nutritional stocking of lakes, many ways. I understand guys support this but don't trash the guys that question the topic (not you specifically fishbreeder) because they don't see it your way.

We are basically giving his family a High Fence bass fishery to be passed on for generations, and used as a means of income generation.

How much money is being wasted? Do you have numbers?

I've gotta say, as a bass fisherman, I think this whole deal is really cool. It is very similar to the way that so many high fence game ranches are ran. I hope this experiment is successful and leads to hundreds of places just like it. I think it would be a great idea for someone to build small, trophy fisheries where a person could more or less pay to catch a double digit bass. Look at how successful the trophy fishing trips to Mexico are. The only difference with this would be, no passport, no hour(s) long rides to the resort, and a whole lot less dangerous. I applaud Dr. S and all of the folks involved in this and I hope it goes well.

As far as the tax dollars go, I will be the last one to start complaining about my tax dollars being spent on FISHING!!! Wow! People will spend thousands of dollars a year on boats, tackle, fuel, etc. and complain about, in my best guess, less than $1 of their tax money going towards a research project on a private lake.

This would be a non issue if the fish were purchased from TPWD. There should be no private lakes stocked using State funds!

Fun Topic!!

Let's look at each bass fry as a 1 dollar bill. When I stocked my private lake, it cost me 1 dollar for each 3 - 4 inch Florida strain bass.

Let's say the state has $7,000 of these 1 dollar bills they want to deposit into an account to get back $150,000 1 dollar bills in 8 years.

Sounds like a pretty good gamble to me if the intention is to gather as many "genetically superior" bass fry as possible to stock into the state's public waters.

My opinion: If the state can remove fish from Jalisco as they want for 15 years, how many SAL sized fish can they raise to supplement the SAL stocking program. My guess is they can get millions of fry over that period for the initial outlay of 7,000 fry.

When I hear the question raised "Why are we doing this research if we can't benefit from it?" It makes think about NASA. Guess they also don't want to fund a space program. Can't possibly learn anything there, can't duplicate space and zero gravity.

Very gripping discussion, but if you don't get how doing research in a controlled environment will help, then guess you don't like much of the benefits science has attributed to our society over the years. Just because we don't have results when the project starts, doesn't mean there will not be results in the end. Patience, it takes failures to get successes, but all of it is a learning processes.

I am so excited for Gary. I am also very excited for Camelot Bell, and the other 14 or 15 contract lakes the state has. I would love to get Allen F. on here from TPWD. I would rather hear about the lakes that have had 8 years of growing bass. Then we can check back in on Gary, 6yrs down the road he will probably have a 13lb'er (Avg age being 11yrs in the SAL), Wondering if 12yrs is long enough to grow a 20lb'er.

I'm not big on taxpayer money going to private lakes.. Lake McQueeney is an example.. Taxpayer dollars help maintain and stock that lake, yet there is no public access to the lake.. I would like to fish it, but can't get to it..

If they want to do a "research lake" then the lake should be owned by TPWD.. If the public cant fish it, then nobody should get to fish it.. It's a research lake after all.. Correct ?

He can't fish it with out TPWD authority. It's TPWD lake on his property for 15 yrs. After that he can have it back. It cost TPWD some travel expenses and 7,000 fry.

Well, this is a really unfair and misleading thing to say.

The owner has spent millions of his own dollars on this project. He built everything himself, and honestly, I think it's fair to say that he would have probably been fine without the state.

I understand the concern about public money being used for private enterprise, but I also understand that type of thing happens all the time, in a number of ways. I think, fairly, it would be appropriate to rate the severity of misuse on a scale.

I can think of much more horrible examples of misused money, and as I have said, on a scale, this just doesn't rank very high.

Where was all this outrage and questioning when we were stuck with the fresh water fishing stamp that was suppose to go away after 5 years but never did???

Cant believe all this fuss over some fry/fingerlings when so many are sound asleep on more important things like the fresh water fishing stamp that is costing us fishermen millions of dollars every year when it shouldn't be. I guess pocket change is more important than dollar bills though..........or so it would seem.

I think he needs to slash his wrist with a rusty razor...

On the surface it sure doesn't seem like a lot of science is involved. You are putting fish into a controlled environment, no predators and all the high protein food they can eat without really working for it. I am going to go out on a limb and guess that they will get bigger quicker. I know that is oversimplification but bottom line, from what we have been told about this experiment, that is what is going on.

Put those same fish or their offspring in a public lake where the food supply is not as good or as plentiful, predators have to be avoided and they have to work for their food, the result is they will not get as big as quick.

Damn Kenny... hahaha. You must be mad about something... How is the fishing at Camelot? Been out there lately? lol

Who says there was no "nod and a wink" when TPWD said he can't fish it. I would be the probably has a nice pretty closed and locked gate that TPWD would have to enter to catch him or anyone else fishing it.

"Who says there was no "nod and a wink" when TPWD said he can't fish it. I would be the probably has a nice pretty closed and locked gate that TPWD would have to enter to catch him or anyone else fishing it."

You know there is a rather large difference between challenging the efficacy of the project or the possible results or even the methods used, but this kind of goes directly to the integrity of the Dr. and going there will never end well.

Agree with this completely. No basis for questioning the Dr's integrity without absolute proof. There has been no indication at all that him or anyone from the TPW are doing anything unethical.

wow.

I wonder what Fork would have been like if the original brood ponds were developed and managed this way.

Unless you can replicate the entire lake to support the same water quality, forage, etc., I suspect it would be no different.

My thoughts differ. No doubt the females would have been bigger at the flooding stage. If they lived to the same age as the original ones, that 18 lb'er might be a blip on the radar screen.

No doubt? I would first have to know what size bass the Fork brood ponds produced vs. what this project will produce in the same amount of time before I could make that statement.

If I put you on a high protein / fat diet, you will gain weight. When I take that resource away, you cannot sustain it without a similar level of protein / fat.

If the concept is that this project can provide better forage for the fish (in a controlled environment) than your typical reservoir, isn't it simple deductive reasoning to think they would need that same "better forage / conditions" to sustain the same rate of growth in said reservoir?

Fish can lose weight.

Don't bring common sense into it, it has to be "scientific". The real money isn't in the fingerlings, its in the time, equipment, and other maintenance or political hours will be spent on this. Again, I'm am in no way against the doc having his own lake, and doing what he wants to it. But in NO WAY should public money be spent for private gain, and yes there will be a lot of private gain. Not only the recognition that will sell trips to la perla but in 15 years there will be a long line to get in there. Unless they make it public which is out of the question. Maybe this one lake isn't a big difference but this isn't the only one and all that waste adds up. Doc, I am sorry you got caught up in this and this is no disrespect to you.

How many of you guys going to give up fishing because of this? Only way to change it is to let tp&w know why you aren't buying fishing license this year.

Agreed on the losing weight. My comment was based on the fact that the La Perla fish with their exceptional circumstances, have already shown above normal growth rates. I agree that it could not be sustained, but if the weight gains made from that point forward were equal, then larger fish at the same age would be possible. But I also understand that this would only apply to the first stocking.

I wonder who is going to pay for all the baitfish in Jalisco? Are prawns, bluegill, shad, minnows & sunfish also donated to the SAL program or are the tax payers buying them?

If you can't be positive, then at least be quite?? Is that a typo!! That is the most Un American thing a person can say. Thats right up there if you cant say something nice dont say anything at all. But that contradictions nice guys finish last. So if nice guys finish last then I have some ocean front property in Arizona I'd like to sell you.

This post, as well as the others on La Perla, have been interesting to say the least with how many negative posts it's brought.

It looks like the consensus of the naysayers is that TPWD and all Texas Fishing License Holders are getting the shaft. I don't see it, not one bit. Jordan has explained it at least twice. The ~7,000 fingerlings getting stocked into Jalisco will eventually be SAL fish, and TPWD will get those fish. Those fish will be spawned and a large amount of those fry will be stocked into public waters. Jalisco will have to be culled down as well and those big fish have to go somewhere. I guess the easy way to look at this is, say those ~7,000 fry got put in Fork. I have no idea what the survival rate would be, but between all the predatory fish, birds, fishermen keeping unders, etc.... I would be shocked if 15% made it to slot size. At Jalisco, there won't be any predatory fish, or fisherman, and the only threat to the success of those fish will be some extreme weather event, some infection, or maybe some Heron or Cormorants (I bet they have that covered though). As Jordan said previously, the survival rate of those ~7,000 will be multiples higher than anywhere on public water. I don't see anything but positive from that for TPWD as well as all of us who are addicted to these green fish!

What else I see, is TPWD gaining immense amounts of data on Florida Strain Bass. By having Jalisco as a test bed in a controlled environment, they'll be able to see survival rates with no predation, annual growth rates based on water quality and forage, how Florida's grow under ideal water temps and conditions, etc. The list goes on an on. I see TPWD being able to use this data to determine ideal lakes to put pure Floridas in and possibly lakes that would benefit more from F1s. It's a HUGE win for TPWD and us, the bass fishermen.

I guess the biggest thing I see is that Dr Gary Schwarz, in my opinion, is not getting anything out of this deal. In fact, I would say he's LOSING money on this in a major way by not being able to sell trips on Jalisco for 15 years. There are as good or better Florida Strain Bass out there for sale than what TPWD is providing. Dr. Schwarz could easily go purchase fry, stock his lake, and have a great Trophy Bass Fishery in a few years.

I think we all need to consider this. Nobody is making him partner with TPWD, and there are other options out there for fry. As far as I can tell, he's doing this out of the goodness of his heart and his desire to give something to us the bass fishermen.

You know......just raising SAL fry to 12"' before stocking would change the results in public waters exponentially......

Whatever Doc is doing or what shenanigans TPW may be up to don't affect any of you really...... just saying

Wonder how much hydrilla costs? ;-) That would help too!!

So does anybody know who's in charge of feeding these fish for the next 15 years? A big bass has to eat ALOT of food.

First:
The fact that they are using assets (time, manpower, fingerlings) supplied by "TAX" money for a private venture is the real issue. Whether the project is successful or not is to be seen & everyone has the opinion on that. But to use "OUR TAX" money on a project that we will not benefit from unless we pay for it again is the real issue. But wait, we do that everyday now with our current government on the Federal level & I thought Texas was better than that.

Second:
Since when can a record bass come from private waters ?
isn't that the reason that bass from Lake Echo can't be weighed for a record.
Lake Echo used to be on the big bass record books and I would suggest still would be if the fish could be weighed from there.

Third:
this whole thing would not be an issue if they had just been "transparent" about it in the first place and it not come out after it was discovered.

People just like to be told ahead of time what is going on and not find out after the fact. Like anything that happens you can spin a story positively or negatively, it is just easier to sell the story in a positive manner before it happens. We will all have our opinion:

My question is:
Why didn't the good Doc just BUY the fingerlings from the TPW for his project ?
Lord knows he has the resources to do just that.
The TPW could have used HIS money to further the SAL project their way.
They would not have used our tax money
& he could have said the SAL fingerlings in his project, fed his way, would produce the BIG BASS that everyone would pay to catch.

All good points...

from the Echo lake website:

" Originally known as Lake Echo, it was once home to the State of Texas record for Largemouth Bass on two different occasions before the lake became part of our private gated community and was renamed Echo Lake. As a private lake, it could no longer be considered for state records and the record was awarded to a public access lake."

The next obvious question is: If a fish from private waters can't be considered for state records, can it's offspring that are transported to a public lake be considered???

No, the only typo was in your spelling of "quiet". I just prefer to associate with positive people. My choice as an American - not un-American at all. Please feel free to surround yourself with negativity - there is plenty to go around. Now, let's get this back on topic instead of signatures.

So it's better to sit back and let people walk all over you than to say something? I want to know who is paying for all the bait that is going to be fed to the Jalisco SAL bass every year for the next 15 years.

When you use public forums for free marketing losing control of the message and having the thing go sideways on you should be a posibility you take into account. Lol

I have to say that with the exponential fishing pressure that is occurring today than say, 30 years ago this program definitely has merits. I can remember photos of my dad and friends with nothing but 5's and 6's back in the early 70's, and even further back of some guys using the first ever bait casters with no anti reverse having full stringers of hogs and smiles a mile wide (I used to use one in my grandparent's pond as a kid). However, the merit this program offers is only a drop in the bucket to what really needs to be discussed.

Topic #1: the use of my money I spend to purchase a fishing license -

To use the public waters to fish, I must purchase "fishing rights" to go and do so. The TPWD then takes that money and invests it in ways to supposedly better enhance my experience by offering strict boating regulations, amount and size of catch regulations, and also the maintenance of the public water itself, notably it's habitat.

My first question is this: What amount of money does the recreational user of the same public water have to pay to obtain the rights to enjoy water skiing and general boating (other than boat ramp fees and boat registration fees we also have to pay)?

Then, when TPWD goes and introduces carp and chemicals to kill off the habitat the fish need to thrive, are they serving the interests of rich guys with expensive houses and toys who do not offer a dime to maintain the lake? Where are they supporting their constituents in all of this? Are they bowing to the power of the rich guy just like all political organizations do?
The invasive hydrilla plant can be problematic, as can the other forms of native grass we have, but the invasive carp and chemicals is worse to be sure. Are Fisherman the only ones paying TPWD for the eradication of habitat? If so, we are fools as that is exactly contrary to what we, the people paying the TPWD want. Simply maintain the habitat, do not eradicate it.

Topic #2 The Game Wardens enforcing the boating regulations -

I fish the hill country lakes primarily, and with rare exception do I see the TPWD enforcing the navigation laws against recreational boaters. Because of this, the degree of lunacy that is obtained during the summer months is sublime. To me, my interest in catching a fish is in no way different to their interest in skimming on the the surface of the water. They both are sports designed to bring us joy. Therefore I feel they should be held to the same standards as the fisherman, they should be regulated, AND be required to contribute to the overall maintenance of the waters. I fully respect the Game Warden and his/her duties. I feel there is an imbalance when a bass fisherman is pulled over and ticketed for having LED lights (which I know are not approved by TPWD regs yet but are far superior to standard lights) yet the recreational boats are running many times with no lights and a boatful of drunks at the helm, not to mention countless people on these surfboards milling about with no safety lighting or anything.

There have been many responses here saying that the allocation of money to create a "super bass" will achieve nothing if it cannot maintain it's diet. It has been proven over and over that the focus should be on the quality of the fishery's habitat. There is no perfect world in a natural environment. If we want to supplement that with stocking programs of genetically enhanced fish so be it, but until we address the real problems affecting our sport we are using a band aid to heal an infection.

Jerkbait---well said

THANK YOU!!! It seems a lot of guys are missing this! But "probably" (I add that word because inevitably there will be the 1 guy who says he wouldn't) every dang one of them would be lined up to invest $7000 if they knew they would be receiving hundreds of thousands (maybe even millions) back in 8-10 years. I know for dang sure that I would gladly invest $7k if the return was that great

And before anyone says "there's no guarantee"...no cr*p! There's zero guarantee with ANY fry stocking! Quit bit*hing about the donation of 7,500 fry, and start hoping that the survival rate is high, that the growth weight is great, and that in 8-10 years TPWD has A LOT of 13+ lb sows to gather eggs from TO STOCK YOUR LOCAL LAKES!!! Good lord, some of you guys would gripe about winning the fricking lottery without even having to buy a ticket!

Okay...carry on it's been interesting to read, that's for sure

Dr. Schwartz, Mr. Shipley, and TPWD...best of luck on the endeavor!

Me, Gary M Schwarz, and NOBODY else, provided the Good Lord continues to bless me.

Otherwise, all bets are off and those precious fry some of you are so worried about will have to be cared for by some other knucklehead.

Question for gary at la perla. How many sol's do u plan on donating. 1 per year. 25%. 50% . how many?? since most agree that what your doing cant be re-created in the wild (texas public lakes) then it seems to me that the only way ur fish farm could help texas lakes is by increasing the number of sol fry stocked in public waters every year. if you say you are doing this to improve texas public fisheries (which i dont buy at all) then i think you should donate all or the majority of sol fish caught from your aquariums. just my 2 cents. but if a persons #1 interest is public texas lakes then they woupd donate all their sol's

great stuff jt

My plan for several years has been to donate a fish from my La Perla Lake to the SAL program once they reached the size, which happened this past year based on shocking surveys.

But, none were caught (despite some views to the contrary that fishing on my place is like "fishing in an aquarium" as you suggest, or "shooting fish in a barrel" or "hunting a big tame buck on a 100 -Acre enclosure", as others have so mistakenly suggested.

So,because it is fishing and there are no guarantees, it is not a given that it will happen, but if it does and We are able to send just one fish alone from our La Perla lake at the ranch that the State has nothing to do with, the genetic compensation will far away settle any imagined inequity for the fish I received recently, irrespective of other benefits the State and public May or may not gain over the next 15 yrs from Jalisco.

As for Jalisco, what the State does with them and for me is not spelled out in print, and we have had no "wink, wink" discussions between me and Allen. For fifteen years, it is totally, their call. I will be very disappointed however if both parties are not treated fairly, allowing both of us to benefit in the end commensurate with out investment.