.... not appropriate on this forum?

If you are trying to do a population/harvest study, then I don't think we need to limit the tags to just trophy Gar. And I also think it should be stated that anglers would be required to fill out the tags by law. Just my opinion.

I don't agree with all the conlclusions, but.........
I would gladly throw my support behind a trophy tag system.
5 over 72" sounds like a lot of big ones. I might say 5 over 60" with
an annual maximum quota after which no more tags would be issued.
However, it sounds like we are approaching some common ground.

Couple of points Winchester and Slimjim...

A 5' Gator gar is still a baby. They grow to 6' in 3-4 years with sufficient food.

This whole thing is about the "Big Girls" so that is what I put in the proposal. If it is accepted and after a couple of years they want to expand it to include all harvest, I would be in on the discussion at that time.

The question of backing this with law that all fishermen must fill out the harvest ticket is understood (by me at least) but would be up to TP&W. IMO - the problem would be getting harvest information from the "incidental harvest". By that, I mean the harvest of Gator Gar while running trot lines, jug lines, bank lines etc. I'm not running them down at all, but most of those "older gentlemen" still consider a Gator Gar "trash" and dispose of them appropriately (they dump them in the water after crushing their skull).

BTW - I need to say that any thing I post is MY OPINION ONLY! I do NOT speak for ANY organization (including TBA). Just for full disclosure.

I'd say those growth rates are a tad optimistic from everything I've ever read even with unlimited food in large aquariums.
My understanding is 1-2 feet easily attainable within the 12 months, but then they slow to only 2-3 inches a year after that. 10 years to 4 feet and 20+ years at least to get to 6 feet. However, I'm curious if Kirk or or Dawson would chime in with their opinions on growth rate.

If you only require tags on the large fish, then we won't have any data on the total harvest, or the percentage of mature fish vs. Juvenile.

Win - I would also like to hear from Dawson. He also questioned the growth rates and that 3 yr old fish were spawning. He talked to TP&W biologist and, as I recall, they told him it was true.

slimjim - I thought the question was how many large fish were being harvested? To get total harvest numbers including "incidental harvest" is going to be much more difficult. This is kind of like "eating an elephant". Let's take "one bite at a time" and we might eventually get where we all would like to be.

Let me throw a scenario at you...
assuming the proposal included all harvest of GG. Now, the gentelman I talked about earlier is running several trot lines in a good area. He is required by law to report any harvest of Gator gar. So he checks his 1st line and finds 4 gator gar on it. He takes the time to measure them and drops them back into the water. On his 2nd line he finds 3 more small GG, but he runs out of harvest tickets. Now what does he do? By the way, his 3rd and 4th lines also contain several GG each. What is he supposed to do? He can't afford to loose all his equipment, so he knocks them in the head and pulls (or cuts) the hook out. I know this sounds extreme, but it is real world stuff! It happens every day!

I would not want to expose him to criminal penalties for this... would you? So what is the answer?

Unlike you, (and this is NOT an attack) I am not concerned about the main stream bow fishermen abiding by the law, whatever it turns out to be. I am much more concerned about the fisherman trying to fill his freezer to feed his family. They are most likely not aware of this controversy and may not understand that they must report all gator gar they catch on their lines. It does not matter what you and I think about the food quality of an alligator gar, the simple fact is that MOST people still consider them a trash fish and just throw them away. Sad but true.

I mean, I guess anything is better than nothing. I thought the whole argument was over whether or not our population is sustaining or declining. My argument this whole time was that we don't know, and that the studies already done that indicate we are below the maximum rate are not sufficient due to small sample sizes and not knowing how many fish we lose to waste.

Ive already submitted my proposals. Go ahead and submit yours and we will see what happens. I do appreciate your concerns and am glad that you are thinking of alternatives.

I love to throw out the barstool biologist tag but this is the first proposal that seems to find a happy medium from to be honest the people that have the most overall experience with the fish. The TPWD proposal as it's written really has some weird undefined "rules" that would be to be honest hard to enforce either way it's important to remember this time it's not really a us vs them fight but to find a way that makes sense to protect and preserve a species that admittedly has had very little research in the over scheme of things.

The fish DO NOT grow that fast
Also I talked in length to the biologist that are taking my tag returns
The 3 yr old alligator gar with eggs is pretty sure a mistake in identification
I have only in my lifetime seen 1 stunted alligator gar in a slough off the river with eggs .Alligator gar grow very fast the first 2 or 3 yrs but after that it slows down

Also for the guys who say that alligator gar are hard to find or kill during high water spawning conditions are trying to pull somebody's leg
During high water I can show you as many as you want to kill in 1-3 ' of water
By the way they are very few alligator gar EVER caught on any trot line

Duckhuntr,

So am I correct in saying that this was ONE fish, with a possible mistaken identity, and not multiple fish with replicated results?

Lonestar carper,

I'm not sure if you have read through all the posts, but there are actually a lot of reasonable proposals from multiple members. Problem is that nobody is in approval of anything that effects their sport, whether it is beneficial or not.

Well, well... NOW who is saying that the biologists' are mistaken??

And if you think Gator gar are not caught on trot lines... well, you are Uh...Mistaken! What is the difference between a trot line and a jug line?(as far as their ability to catch a gar) Jug lines are the preferred method of harvest by commercial fishermen. What did you use?

I called and asked, those 3 year old fish were on falcon checked and verified. Those fish do not compare to middle and upper Trinity. Falcon is having some bad low water right now and honestly for now that probably is good for growth rates because it is going to concentrate the food, over time it will not be as good because as food availability declines growth will level out.

They do grow fast at first in the river, they do not hit 6' in 4 years. I had a client keep a fish that got hooked in the gills bad last year and I turned the head in on it. Was about 48" long and it came out of the 2007 year class.

I went to the Palestine meeting, Tony Reeves and I were the only people that showed up. I don't think there are many people involved with gar fishing that think the proposal as it stands now is going to be the right way to go about it.

If anyone wants to go there will be public comment allowed on March 27th at the commission's hearing. It will be in Austin, too far me to drive I am afraid.

There actually are very few Gar caught on trot lines. When you fish with a rod and reel, 9 times out of 10 the Gar will leave the bait if there is a lot of resistance. Also, It's pretty rare for a gar to hook itself in the mouth. Trot line hooks aren't easy to swallow. On a jug line, they can move the bait without resistance. That's the difference. It does happen, but it happens a lot more frequently on jug lines.