http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/releases/?req=20140219b



This is so vaguely worded that the state could close down alligator gar fishing across the state April-June of each year. Per my contacts with parks and wildlife there was no study done to justify this regulation, it comes down from several high up commissioners who felt the public desired this change. It is not about science, there is no science to justify completely closing the fishery to even catch and release anglers which is what this would give the commission power to do through about half of the best time of year to be gar fishing.

While I would support a closure on harvest during spawning conditions only, there is no reason at all to shut down the cpr guys too. I am not interested in making this a bow fishing discussion, please leave that elsewhere and focus on the issue at hand which is getting the word out about these baseless regulations that park's and wildlife's own employees do not endorse.

This stands to effect not just the people who guide for these fish, but anyone else that wants to target alligator gar during the spring across all groups. Again, there has been no study to justify these changes, only opinion based by some high up employees.

Please comment accordingly per the public comment option at the link provided here:
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/business/feedback/public_comment/proposals/201403_fishing.phtml

Interesting. Up here, all sport fish are closed during the spawn, it is illegal to target them at all, and any fish caught must be released right away no matter what.

Just to give you an idea, most trout close in September and open at the end of may. Stocked trout are the exception.
Sturgeon close at the end of October and only open mid June.
Muskies and bass close in April and pen in mid June.
Pike, walleye and yellow perch close in April and open in May.

Very rare that we are able to fish bedding bass unless the spawn is very late like last year. Just South of us in NY and Vermont, some areas have a catch and release only season during the bass spawn from April to June, Lake Champlain is a good example.

5 years ago when the bag limit was changed from unlimited to one per day, that all but phased out the commercial fishing market for them as well. Seems like with harvest rates reduced that drastically, a little more expansive research should be done before any more regulations are passed.

There is a reason for closed seasons in the northern latitudes, and that is that the spawns are condensed into a single narrow window where nearly all of the fish are vulnerable at the same time, i.e. a single wave of bass(used as am example) spawn. Here spawning starts in February some years with bass and then some bass will still be spawning early June. We have multiple waves here with most species and some fish even spawn twice. I don't disagree with the way fisheries are managed in the north at all, there is good quantifiable data to go with along with the way they are done.

That is not the case with what is being proposed here. There is no data, per the states own biologists. It is a directive from high up employes who are dipping there toe in the water with the public comment window before they push it through. There is not going to be any study or data before it is enacted if it is. Most gar wont even bite a hook during active spawning activity anyway. These proposed regulations are too vague and could be enacted with no actual spawning activity in place.

All gar species are broadcast spawners. Two or three males will group up with a female and follow around dropping eggs and sperm as they swim. Once the eggs are dropped they are done, there is no nest guarding etc, they don't make nests.

In order for this to be done right and in an effective manner each water body with spawning conditions present would have to be monitored continually for signs of a spawn taking place. The state is not going to be willing to commit the resources needed for this amount of micromanagement. What is being proposed is a shotgun approach and is not going to do anything but harm the fishery which is still trying to develop.

The vast majority of these fish's habitat in most Texas rivers lies far enough from public access that most people don't have a chance of even bothering them in any significant manner in the first place.

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News Release
Media Contact: Steve Lightfoot, 512-389-4701, steve.lightfoot@tpwd.texas.gov
Feb. 19, 2014

TPWD Proposing Seatrout Bag Limit Change, Gar Conservation Rules

AUSTIN � The Texas Parks and Wildlife Department is proposing fishing regulation changes that will affect both salt and freshwater anglers. Some of the most noteworthy include changes to harvest regulations for flounder and spotted seatrout, the rainbow trout fishery on the Guadalupe River below Canyon Lake dam, and additional restrictions on the harvest of alligator gar during critical periods of spawning.

TPWD staff presented proposed amendments to the 2014-15 Statewide Recreational and Commercial Fishing Proclamation to the Texas Parks and Wildlife Commission. The recommended changes include:

Salt Water

Oyster harvest: Temporary 2-year closure of a 54-acre oyster restoration site on Half-Moon reef in Matagorda Bay, and a 2-year temporary closure of seven restoration sites located in East Galveston Bay.
Flounder: Extension of the November 2-fish bag limit through the first 2 weeks of December, and during those two weeks harvest would be allowed by any legal means.
Spotted Seatrout: Extension of the 5-fish bag and possession limit up the coast through East Matagorda Bay with a five-year sunset date.
Fresh Water

Guadalupe River below Canyon Reservoir (Comal County): rainbow and brown trout regulations on a section of the river would be changed to a 12- to 18-inch slot length limit with a five-fish daily bag limit, harvest by artificial lures only, and only one trout over 18 inches could be retained. The new regulation zone would begin 800 yards downstream from the Canyon Dam release and extend downstream to the easternmost Highway 306 bridge crossing.
Texas/Louisiana Border Waters (Toledo Bend Reservoir, Caddo Lake, and the Lower Sabine River in Newton and Orange Counties): regulations for blue and channel catfish would be changed to no minimum length limit and a 50-fish daily bag limit in any combination, of which no more than five blue or channel catfish 30 inches or longer could be retained.
Tradinghouse Creek Reservoir (McLennan County): the special limits for freshwater lakes where red drum have been stocked would be removed and regulations would revert to statewide length limits (20-inch minimum length limit, 28-inch maximum length limit, and harvest of up to two red drum 28 inches or longer per year with trophy drum tag). Bag limit would remain at three.
Lake Kyle (Hays County): regulations would be changed to catch and release (no harvest) of channel and blue catfish, largemouth bass, or any sunfish species.
Canyon Lake Project #6 (Lubbock County): Changes implemented last year were not fully implemented. To correct this, the harvest regulation for channel and blue catfish would be changed to no minimum length limit and a five-fish daily bag and anglers would be restricted to only two poles.
North Concho River from O. C. Fisher Dam to Bell Street Dam and the South Concho River from Lone Wolf Dam to Bell Street Dam (Tom Green County): anglers would be restricted to using two poles.
Jug Line Floats: Recreational anglers who fish with jug lines will be allowed to use floats of any color except orange. Commercial anglers will continue to be restricted to using orange-colored floats.
In addition to the proposed changes noted above, the TPW Commission directed staff to include for public comment proposed changes to alligator gar harvest regulations. The changes would give the TPWD Executive Director the authority to temporarily prohibit taking or attempting to take alligator gar in any area where conditions such as water temperature and water levels would be conducive for spawning of alligator gar. Typically, alligator gar do not spawn every year. This change would add increased protection to spawning gar in certain areas when they are concentrated and most vulnerable to over-harvest. Closures would be invoked only during those limited times when and where the specified conditions are occurring, and the public would be notified as soon as the closure is invoked.

Proposed changes can be found in the Feb. 21 edition of the Texas Register and on the TPWD website.

Comments on the proposed rules may be submitted by phone or e-mail to Robert Macdonald (512) 389-4775; e-mail: robert.macdonald@tpwd.texas.gov, Texas Parks and Wildlife Department, 4200 Smith School Road, Austin, Texas 78744. Comments may also be submitted through the department�s internet web site after February 21 and at the following upcoming public meetings scheduled around the state.

TPWD Public Hearing Schedule

All meetings set for 7 p.m.
Alpine March 10 Sul Ross, Range Animal Science Bldg, Rm 103, East Hwy 90
Sulphur Springs March 10 Hopkins Co. Courthouse, 118 Church St.
New Braunfels March 10 WORD Offices, 1928 FM 2673, Canyon Lake
Port Arthur March 11 Holiday Inn, Neches Room, 2929 Jimmy Johnson Blvd.
Dickinson March 11 Doyle Convention Center, Williams Goyens Room, 2010 5th Ave North, Texas City
Van Horn March 12 El Capitan Hotel Conference Room, 100 East Broadway
Marshall March 12 Marshall Lions Community Center, 1201 Louisiana St.
Zapata March 12 Zapata County Technical and Advance Education Center, Rm 128, 605 N. US Hwy 83
Port Lavaca March 12 Bauer Exhibit Building, 186 CR 101
San Antonio March 13 Bass Pro@ 17907 IH-10 West
Rockport March 13 Aransas County Courthouse, 301 N. Live Oak
Lubbock March 17 Texas Agrilife Research and Extension Center, 1102 E. FM1294
Nacogdoches March 17 Nacogdoches County Courthouse Annex, 203 West Main
Dallas-Fort Worth March 17 Cabela's, 1 Cabelas Dr., Allen
Palestine March 17 Ben E. Keith Building, 2019 W. Oak Street
Huntsville March 19 Walker County Storm Shelter, 455 Highway 75 N
Port Isabel March 19 Port Isabel Community Center, 213 Yturria
Amarillo March 19 Texas AgriLife Extension Center, 6500 Amarillo Blvd West
Corpus Christi March 20 Del Mar College Center for Economic Development, 3209 S. Staples St., Rm 106
Center March 20 Fannie Brown Booth Library, Redditt Room, 619 Tenaha Street
Houston March 20 Sheldon Lake State Park, 15315 Beaumont Hwy


Please go to the TPWD web site a voice your opinion on this an the other regulations under consideration. Then find one of the public hearings in your area to attend and be sure to speak there also. Even if it's just to say or nay about the proposal.
I agree with the above statements about this being some "unelected" commissioners pet project. Seems they don't need scientific studies to PROVE their regulations, just theory and personal opinions. They put very little research or money into gator gar. They haven't even had time to study the 09 one gar per day regulations to see what/if any impact that has had on the fishery. This is totally about BIG TROPHY FISH.
Need to follow the money on this one to see who is benefitting from such a obsurd and unenforcable regulation. By their own biologist admissions they don't need to stock gator gar in rivers or lakes, even with their sporadic spawning during drought conditions which we have been experiencing. They claim a 5% harvest is necessary to maintain a healthy fishery but show no proof that that percentage is even being harvested. These guys see river monsters on TV and hear the ignorant public outcry that these fish are to be protected. I hate to be a G/W that had to try and enforce this in the field.
People plan their vacations and travel from all over the world to come here and fish. How bad would it be to show up for a trip after spending time and money to only find out you cannot fish because some desk jockey decided there was a chance that this fish MIGHT spawn that weekend. Weather you RR fish or bowfish, doesn't matter, this type of regulation is unsound without proper scientific study behind it.
You do not have to be from Texas to voice your option or to vote. But you do need to vote. Let's let these unelected commissioners hear from the folks that are on the water.

First off, I would like to keep this debate civil and I want anyone who reads this to know that I respect your views and opinions, just as I would expect you to respect mine. These are opinions I have adopted based on the reading I have done, and I will list some of my sources below that I have found meaningful on this topic.

First, I would like to address the lifecycle of the fish. Though I'm sure you can't nail down an exact age, most research states that female gar reach sexual maturity around 11 years of age. Though Gar have indeterminate growth, this would put the average weight of a reproducing female above 45lbs. Since there is a limit of one gar per day since 2009, I would assume that nobody wants to go home with a small fish. This leads me to believe that the primary target of anglers/bowfishing would be sexually mature fish.

Second, when these fish spawn they must have flooded vegetation/cover for the eggs to stick to. They don't have this every year! In years with little rainfall and drought conditions, there may not even be a gar spawn, or the young may not survive. In addition, The females do not stay in the spawning areas for very long. Though males hang around longer than females, the eggs typically hatch within 48-72 hours of being broadcast. Gar don't make nests or stick around to guard their young. They spawn, and return to deeper water. This is essential for survival of the large fish, since the water may not remain deep enough for them to thrive and have an ample food source.

Third, Gar spawning areas have been greatly reduced. We have dammed all our rivers to create lakes. We use a lot more water than we used to. We have built levees to create better farm land. We pump water out of the rivers to irrigate that farm land. And I'm not saying any of those things are bad. That's just the way it is. We have done those things so the WE can survive.

Fourth, Our technology in fishing and interest in these fish has grown enormously over the past decade. We have better fishing line that doesn't break as easily, better bows, better lights. We have people travelling from all over the world to catch these fish.

To sum things up, I think restricting fishing/bowfishing in spawing grounds is a good idea. Give the fish a chance to produce offspring when they get the opportunity. They will be wore out from spawning, and be ready to eat as soon as they return to deeper water. I don't think this will have any impact on the number of fish caught every year. And by the way, Texas won't be the first state to impliment this measure in protecting spawing grounds. Oklahoma currently does this.

As far as TPWD not having research and studies to back this up, it costs money. And lots of money. Maybe this IS their study. It costs a lot less to go put up a few signs in spawning areas than it does to try to figure out a way to do a fish count. Should we wait until we see if there is a decline in population before we do anything about it? With such a long lived fish, it could be a decade before we realize what impact we may have. We also can't regulate the amount of fish taken. Do people really believe that everyone sticks to the one fish limit? I've overheard many people say that "they just throw the dead ones back in the water and go look for a larger one." I still hear people call this fish an invasive species that should be killed, even heard people claim that Texas requires you to kill them if you catch them. I've personally witnessed people kill them when they catch them on trot lines because they are ruining their catfishing. These are factors that can't be measured. Those people will always be there. There is absolutely no way to keep this in check.

Thoughts?

I want to end this with a couple of disclaimers:
1. I don't have any problem with a person legally killing an Alligator Gar if they are going to eat and/or mount it.
2. I don't have any problem with bowfishing. It looks like a fun sport, and I wish I knew someone local that could bring me some carp to use for bait!
3. I apologize for any spelling errors. It's late.

References:
http://www.fws.gov/arkansas-es/a_gar/AGar_Biblio.html
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/newsmedia/releases/?req=20110811a
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/publications/nonpwdpubs/media/gar_status_073108.pdf
http://www.sdafs.org/alligar/AGar_Research.html

One of my biggest issues with it is that the states own biologists do not think that this is the way to go about this. I will not name the ones I have spoken with on the issue for their protection. They do not feel that it is needed and they also do not believe the state will appropriate the funds to properly enforce the regulations in a fair manner should they pass.

Another issue I have with this is that the only way to effectively prevent alligator gar from being captured during "closed" conditions would be to completely close areas to any fishing with bait or bowfishing. Trot liners and rod and reel cat fishermen using heavy tackle routinely catch alligator gar as well, it is not fair to them to have the few public access points closed to prevent capture of alligator gar when the fish may not be spawning or already are done spawning. The state is not going to send someone to check and see if the fish have spawned or not in order to effectively enforce this, some high up guys are just going for a shot gun approach. Next, is the state going to go check every time we get a flood pulse to see if the fish have spawned yet, or are they just going to close it every time we get some high water during the spring? Those "specified" conditions are not named in the proposal, which is why it is vague. The range could be from 5' high to 30' or from 70 degrees to 90 degrees. Those conditions need to be named before the law goes in the books not after. I understand the way these fish reproduce, the issue is that regulations should not be a shot gun approach. The fish don't even bite hooks when actively spawning anyway, so there is no reason to close the fishery to rod and reel fishing. I have been on the river during high water, when the little ones hatch you will see them floating along with the debris in the river. Most of Texas still has good spawning grounds, it is not like in other states where the river systems have been on lock and dam set ups for the last 50-100 years which prevent spawning conditions. As long as we keep our rivers mostly free flowing as they are they will continue to have decent spawns here most springs without the state getting involved. Most stretches of our major rivers lie far enough from public access that nobody is able to get to the fish and bother them anyway, there are few access points and the ones that exist are spread out over a wide area.

Most of the river fish get in a spawn at least partially each year, that much is evident by the time I have spent on the water and the range of sizes that are present in the smaller fish. I am not saying that every year they have a big spawn, some years they do not. The river does not have to get very high as long as it keeps a few extra feet of water in it for a week for the fish to spawn, there is enough vegetation withing a few feet of the waters edge, especially in feeder creeks and eddies for the alligator gar to at least spawn some young. Once they hatch they grow up to 18" in the first year, staying mainly in back water areas and feeder creeks, after the first year they still grow quickly for the first few years then begin tapering off.

In my opinion and from my discussions with several biologists, this change won't do anything but harm the popularity of a still developing recreational fishery, and further the only way to effectively shield the fish during the spawn would be to adopt draconian measures that nobody wants. The best thing to do is ensure Texas rivers remain free flowing, which will allow the fish to handle "business" as they have been without our help. Most of our fertile, free flowing rivers still have viable populations which reproduce on their own. I would support a harvest/kill restriction during active spawning, but beyond that things need to be left as they are.

"This is so vaguely worded that the state could close down alligator gar fishing across the state April-June of each year."

And in that worst case scenario that would STILL leave 9 months of quality Alligator Gar fishing in our great state of Texas.

I think the problem is in the way the proposal is interpreted. Here is how I see it: Small creeks, grassy, shallow flats, and oxbow lakes are where they would be spawning. Those are the areas that I see them regulating gar fishing during the spawn. This is a very smaller percentage of the water available to fish. Like you, I don't think fishing during the spawn, on spawning grounds, is very productive anyway. So, we still have the entire river to fish, throw out trot lines, etc.. I don't see how this has an effect on any other type of fishing.

Do you know something I don't? From speaking with the Biologists, are they planning to just shut down boat ramps and not let anyone fish on the Trinity during peak spawning times? I would DEFINITELY have a problem with that! I understand that the wording is not very specific, but it does say that they would only regulate areas that are conducive to spawning.

Aren't they also grouping Bow Fishing into the equation? I know on Lake Texoma they already limit Bow Fishing for Agar during May.

I would assume so, since the wording is "temporarily prohibit taking or attempting to take" when refering to the gar.

They have no plan, that is the problem. They want to have the power to close certain areas during certain times during certain conditions. That is a condensed version of what it says. That very well could mean what you said, but as it is written those parameters are not defined. For them to pass regulations they need to define what temp range, what water level, where etc. They do not need to pass the law and then say something to the effect of "Here is what we meant when we said..." at a later date.

If you look at how other states manage closed seasons in some areas it does result in completely closing an area to any fishing. In order to prevent alligator gar fishing one would essentially have to ban cat fishing with fresh bait, and trot lines baited with live fish or fresh bait as well since those anglers and fishermen catch alligator gar too. How would they prevent people from targeting gar? By having tackle and gear restrictions as well? No, the only logical way to do it with the shot gun approach is to shut down the public access, and personally I think that is eventually where it would go.

Alligator gar are still present in good numbers in our state because we have the right habitat. Most areas where they were found and are not now no longer have free flowing rivers which produce the conditions needed for them to spawn.

There is enough vegetation near the water and in the feeder creeks dumping into the rivers for alligator gar to spawn at least to some extent in the rivers each year. All it takes is a week or so of elevated water levels for them to drop eggs and go. The young of the year pretty much stay in the creeks and oxbows if the river gets high enough. Some years they spawn better than others, but judging by the size variance I have seen across several different water ways I feel confident that they are taking care of business fine as is.

What they really need is for us to keep our rivers mostly free flowing as they are now. Habitat loss is by far the number one reason Alligator gar numbers have been reduced across most of their former range. If their habitat is not protected it doesn't matter what restrictions there are on them.

Go look in the freshwater discussion board, the general public is still afraid they are going to eat all the bass and crappie.

Lot of good reading here and good info. Myself, here in Central Texas, drought has been hard and long. Not much fresh running water during the spawn. I wonder how this plays into the spawn.

Where do you live Yegua cat?

Dawson,

I think deep down we both really agree on this topic. I think I just have more trust in the TPWD to take care of our fish populations. That may be a bad thing. I do think further measures need to be taken to combat poaching, but I have no idea how to impliment that. Maybe that's what this is all about? Maybe this is the only way they see that they can be sure of a healthy population?

Dawson,

Have you seen this? I found it mildly comforting. The commissioner that started all of this was pretty clear in this meeting that he only wanted to shut down bowfishing in spawning areas. It will be interesting to see what the the next meeting has to offer, but we may be in the clear as far as rod and reel, depending on how it is written.


http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/business/feedback/meetings/2014/1107/transcripts/commission/index.phtml