I still want to see proof of the age of maturity thing. Even when using Otoliths for aging, there are different techniques for doing it. I find it hard to believe that years of studies have been wrong on this issue, but if proof is shown I'm willing to listen. An interesting fact: Early maturation of fish has been studied before, and it has historically been due to the species being pressured. I'm not saying that is true for Gar, but it may be a possible cause and should be considered.

Then why did the Texas Bowfishing Association do the following in 2009 when the initial bag limit was proposed?

1. Oppose the proposed regulation outright
2. Fail to offer alternative regulation
3. Present any form of coherent argument of their own based on anyone's data or their own
internal survey's to counter TPW's biologists conclusions


See Transcript below from the public hearing on the initial bag limit


COMMISSIONER HOLT: Thank you. Tony Reeves up, and Duane Hendrickson, standby.

MR. REEVES: Now we can get back to the first part of my speech that I wrote last night. Your Honors, thank you all for allowing us to present our arguments for or against today's proposals. My name is Tony Reeves. I am here today representing the Texas Bow Fishing Association. The Bow Fishing Association of America as well as U.S. Sportsman Alliance. I am here to argue against the alligator gar proposal.

First, I would like to discuss my other passions. You see, I am not only a bow fisherman, but I am also an avid Texas outdoorsman. I hunt deer, ducks, turkey and I rod and reel fish in the saltwater as well as the freshwater of our great State. I enjoy all that our state has to offer. And this next bit talks about alligator gar, but this also covers Lake Texoma proposals.

My current issue is with the State of Texas Hunting and Fishing regulations, is the overemphasis on trophy. Trophy deer, trophy bass, trophy carp and recently, trophy catfish. During these hard economic times, state agencies forgetting about the hungry people and focusing on the man with the money.

Today the staff is proposing a 30- to 45-inch slot limit for catfish on Richland Chambers, Lake Waco, Lake Lewisville, and a 30-inch maximum on Lake Texoma, the lake that gave us the two past state records. I lost my place. It just looks like we are looking out for the guy that is willing to spend the money to catch the big catfish and even the guides that get paid to put them on it. But what about the guy that wants to feed his family of five?

You have already taken away bow fishing for catfish, because it wasn't sporting enough for CCA and other elite rod and reel fishermen. What is next, trot lining? I guess the old Bocephus song, "Country Boy Can Survive," needs to be changed to "Country Boy Can Survive If He Breaks the Law to Do It."

On the alligator gar argument, I believe that there is not nearly enough data presented to go from no regulation to one-a-day regulation. Please listen to this example that I have. If a man from out-of-state, say Michigan or from within our state even, takes a long three-day weekend to sample our great alligator gar fishery. He is going to spend a considerable amount of money on fuel for his truck, fuel for his boat, meals, overnight accommodations and out-of-state license fees, which are high.

If the first two days are raining and just not right for alligator gar, but the last day is perfect � the river has risen. The water is in a perfect temperature and gar are rolling everywhere. Thirty minutes into the perfect day, he makes a snap decision and arrows a rolling gar right at his feet. After a short fight, it turns out to be an average four footer. After spending hundreds of dollars and two rainy days on the river, this man now has to go home with one four-foot gar. I do not believe that the man would come back very often.

I give this example based on my experience a few weekends ago with David Curdieff. I live here, so I already have a license. But I spent a tank of diesel fuel and four hours' driving time to get to and from the fabled Lock and Dam area on the Trinity River. I spent another four hours, please bear with me � I spent another four hours.

COMMISSIONER HOLT: Yes. You need to do a closing.

MR. REEVES: All right. Anyway, we spent 11 hours. Eight hours of that was driving time. We actually got to fish about three hours before we had to make a return trip, down 64 miles of treacherous river. Didn't shoot an alligator gar. The time wasn't right for that.

What I would ask you to do, I strongly urge the Commission to table this issue until the studies can be conducted. By Mr. Durocher's own admission, these studies could take several years to complete. We haven't shot these fish to extinction in 100 years of bow fishing. And I don't believe that we will shoot them all in the next year, either.

I also would like to ask that the Commission would offer a question and answer phase or an Advisory Committee like I have heard about the Whitetail Advisory Committee. That would be between the Commission, Parks and Wildlife staff and members of the bow-fishing community, before any regulation was handed down. Thank you.

COMMISSIONER HOLT: Tony, thank you

Then why did the Texas Bowfishing Association do the following in 2009 when the initial bag limit was proposed?

1. Oppose the proposed regulation outright Because there wasn't any data to back up why they proposed such restriction.

TELL THAT TO THE PEOPLE IN ALL THE STATES WHERE THEY ARE EXTINCT. I'M GUESSING IT WAS THE DATA THAT KILLED THEM.

2. Fail to offer alternative regulation Again, why offer a regulation when one is not needed.

SO WHAT I THINK YOU ARE SAYING IS THAT YOU WANT UNLIMITED HARVEST OF A FISH YOU ADMITTEDLY CONSIDER "NASTY" AND UNWORTHY OF HUMAN CONSUMPTION AND AT THE SAME TIME CONSIDER YOURSELF AN "ULTIMATE CONSERVATIONIST"

3. Present any form of coherent argument of their own based on anyone's data or their own
internal survey's to counter TPW's biologists conclusions Such as?

IT APPEARS THAT IS SOMETHING THE TBA DOESN'T WANT TO DO....PERHAPS THEY ARE AFRAID THEY WON'T LIKE WHAT THEY FIND?

I see no where where anyone can ONLY take 2 deer that are 6-7 yrs old??. Where does that come from??

PLEASE ELABORATE?

Hey guys I know we are all passionate about our positions on this, but lets try and keep it civil so we don't get the thread locked.

I can take 2-6-7 yr old deer in my county and a another in another county. I can take a trophy and a cull and then another trophy in another county and they can all be whatever age. As long as the cull has at least 1 unbranched antler I'm legal and the trophys are over 13" wide.

Maglite, so do you think we should place similar regulations on Gar as we do Deer? I'm not trying to trap you into saying yes, but deer have an open and closed season. I have a low population of deer in my area, and was only able to shoot a spike this year even though I sat in my stand nearly every weekend. How about we just ban harvest of Gar during spawning months? That's way better than the short time we have to shoot deer. And by the way, I'm a deer hunter too. Love venison.

OK... let me throw this out.

The MAIN thing we need is more data on harvest, size and numbers. Agreed?

So how about a harvest tag for Gator Gar along the lines of the HIP program for migratory birds.

1. On each fishing license, include a tag for 5 Gator gar over a certain size (say 6' for starters)
This does not mean 5 per day, but 5 total)
2. Each tag would have to be filled out with the total length, girth and weight if possible, as well as the date and location of harvest. Much like a deer tag.
3. IF (and that is a BIG if) an angler fills his tag, he can take it to any TP&W office, turn it in and get a new tag. (I sincerely doubt that even 2% of bow anglers will need a second tag in any season)

This would give TP&W valuable information about the harvest and distribution of the GG IN THIS STATE. If a diagram was put out regarding harvest of the otoliths needed for aging, Bow fishermen could get them and mail them to the biologist along with date, length, girth and location. It would be a lot of work, but I believe many bow fishermen would be happy to help out with this study.

For the time being, maintain the 1 per day limit and continue the ongoing studies re: age and spawning habits. Even 1 year of this type of harvest study would, IMHO, change the model now in use regarding distribution and harvest. It would also fulfill one of the goals in the alligator gar study group (mentioned by state biologists) regarding contact with the "user group".

What say you??

I really like that idea. I agree that it would provide a lot of valuable info. The only concern that I would still have is the immeasurable factors, such as people that intentionally skew the data by not reporting the tags. Less tags reported= higher limits. I firmly believe that you and the group that you probably run with are all for better research and conservation, but unfortunately there are too many out there that just want to go kill and have no regard for conservation.

So, answer me this question. What is it going to hurt to place more regulations on these fish until we have better data?

I would support that. I was just talking to Dan Daughtry about that. The tags would give them valuable information.

I was talking to an older guy at one of my fishing holes this weekend. He was running trotlines in the same area I was fishing for GG. When we started talking about the GG, he commented that he had seen quite a few and often caught them on his lines... "and some huge ones too" he said. I asked him what he did with them and he commented "Heck, we just bust their skulls and cut the lines."

IMO - THAT is where the numbers might get skewed. Trot liners and jug liners looking for catfish catch a lot of GG and most are just like the gentleman I talked to. They just bust 'em in the head and throw them back.

I have already sent this proposal to an officer of TBA. We will see if the bow fishing community will back this (and I am pretty certain they will).

I agree on the trotliners, seen a lot of that too.


I'm glad you came up with an alternate proposal and are submitting it. That's what I have been telling everyone we need to be doing. Being proactive, not just saying that we don't agree with it.