WOW, WOW, WOW,

Lets see what the finale verdict is here from Warden McCall, It's funny that we are getting differnet anwsers from the same organization. If they cant have one anwser how the heck are we supposed to????

I understand that managment of such a unique fishery isnt easy for GRTU and TPWD and again I undersand your concern however I want to assure you of something. I did my best not to harm the fish. No I dont have a clear rubber landing net Id love one but it isnt at the top of my list of things to buy right now. For the stringer everyone I was with explained to me how impressed they were that it didnt harm the fish we have all used the rope style and the metal clip and the creels and obviusly a creel isnt an option here. I made the best choices I could with the fish's well being as first priority. Im sorry it isnt a clear rubber net or a softer stringer but I assure what I did was far less harmfull then what I have seen others do. There is no law that requires a net so I feel like Im still doing better then nothing here. With such an involved hobby its hard to own all the tools.

I did the best I could and I feel that I followed all laws to the best of my ability. Sorry if it looks distastfull but the amount of informing going on here seems a bit much for such a small action. Trust me we care about the fishery and had it not been for the task of picture taking non of the handling or stringers or fuss would be happening.

To me the only important point now is what Warden McCall says on the matter. I for one hope that they dont ban the man made casted "scented" worm. However that doesnt mean that other "scented" baits such as power bait "dough bait", Marshmallows, salmon eggs, or corn should be allowed. Just my .02.

Sincerely,
Alex R.

P.S. All the fish including Fred are back home lets go catch'em so we can see what our tones are like instead of our typing skills that should fix any misunderstanding.

Tight Lines!!!

Here was the other email in question. Straight forward and to the point.

"Is berkley power worms soft plastics considered an artificail
lure in tx? And are they allowed to fish in the trophy trout
zone on the Guadalupe river.
Power worms are man made"

"Yes, it's an artificial lure.
Yes, you can harvest trout caught with this lure in the special trout
zone."

Dyanne Fry Cortez
Web Coordinator, Inland Fisheries Division
Texas Parks and Wildlife Department
(512) 389-8055

I think you are doing what you can to the best of your ability. And I do think you are conscientious in trying to handle your fish in a responsible way to ensure that they live to fight another day. The other points I made about nets and such are just the last degree in catch and release techniques.
I am just trying to make sure that whatever is the law that sportsmen know where the lines are drawn and if they are doing things that are right or wrong.
I do unfortunately know people along the river who knowingly break the laws and just don't care what they are doing to the resource and what so many have been trying to accomplish with the Guadalupe Trout fishery for so many years. And from what I can see hear You are not amoung this crowd.
I am going out for awhile so I probably won't be able to report back till late this evening. We'll see what they say and I will pass it along.

Jimbo

I see you posted just as I was writing the above response. I still have a hard time believing they would allow a lure what is scented to be considered legal to harvest Trout in the TTZ. I still want to hear that from the Chief of Wardens considering the way the regulations are written.

Jimbo

Thank you Jimbo, I appreciate that. I am definitly not part of the problem and I would love to be part of the solution. Which hey, it looks like I am.

We are all anxiusly awaiting warden McCall's finale word on this.

Kuddos to all of us for participating, apologizing, and communicating without profanity, foul language, threats or passive aggressive attitudes.



As we have all seen and know thiese threads can take ugly turns glad we kept this one on track.

Not that I want to take this thread that direction...but here is my $0.02

Well I'm sure I will get some Sh*t for this post...but I think it's all kinda funny. Those trout are not native. Never were and never will be! The water they swim in is created by man as the by-product of a dam that just happens to produce water cool enough to support trout year round. I'm sure when they built the dam they weren�t thinking..."Let's build this huge dam and spend all kinds of money so we can create a trout fishery here in Central Texas!"

I have been to the stockings of both the state and GRTU. I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but the amount of trout they throw in there each winter is astounding!! If even 10% of those fished lived, they wouldn't have to keep stocking thousands upon thousands of trout each year!!

I know there is a huge amount of interest and regulations (and money) surrounding that "trout" fishery. It is regarded as one of the top 100 trout fisheries in the US. But it's all artificial!! If the state decided the dam was no longer needed and if it were to be destroyed...no more trout fishery! If the state for some reason cut off the stockings, the population of trout would probably eventually go to zero. The GRTU spends their money to stock it, but that is funded by private members money. They spend the money to stock the river and buy leases for members...but it's all on public waters! I guess they also use their money to persuade lobbyist to "protect" their investment of the stockings and place regulations on the public in taking the trout from public waters that the GRTU purchased.

I know I am going on and I'm sure a vast majority will not agree with me, but I think the "protection" of the Guadalupe trout is just a bunch of guys that want to fish for trout and are willing to spend the money to do it. This is not some natural area that needs protection to preserve a native fish! These same fishing ideas also lead them to stocking small mouth bass in these waters. How cool...you can catch small mouth bass in central Texas!!...yet that almost lead to the complete destruction of the native Guadalupe bass!

This post can go on and on about the details of the rules when fishing that stretch of water, but who cares!!! They will keep throwing more and more fish in there each year and as long as people have the money to spend to support it, it will continue. Drought, stripers and the summer tubers probably effect the trout population much more than a few Winter fisherman using lures that are "scented"!

That is definitly a well thought out argument with some good points. I have to agree with the fact that we in no way could do the damge that most unknowledgeable river goers do on an average trip.

Tight Lines!!!

I hope and think the idea here is that artificial baits are illegal and banned in the trophy zone. Artificial lures however scented or otherwise are legal to use. Lures cannot contain natural ingredients such as minnows, shad, crayfish, corn etc.

That is how I interpret the law and I hope thats how they mean it. We shall see wondering minds wait.

Power bait dough artificial bait
Power bait worm artificial lure

ROTFLMAO

Needed a good laugh!

Here here. Great post of opinions. I liked what u had to say. And UR rite about water temps,stripers,and tubers Definetly are of bigger concern.

First of all I missed Marcos DeJesus call so I will have to wait till tomorrow to find out what he and McCall had to say.

Well I will answer some of the above questions about Canyon lake.
Canyon Lake was designed as a flood control project by the Army Corps of Engineers to prevent downstream flooding which before the dam was created happened quite frequently. This of course meant the existing fishery needs were subserviant to the need to control downstream flooding. The ACOE submitted their plans after much research and these plans called for a lake that was a little over 120' deep at pool. With a bottom discharge dam this meant the waters would be much colder now and displace the existing warm water fishery. To compensate the Texas Sportemen for the loss of the warm water fishery with the flood control project, the Texas state legislature directed TPWD to study the new tailwater and suggest a replacement fishery. That answer, as we all now know, was to create a Trout fishery.

The three key players came forward in the creation of the Trout Fishery were: TPWD, the newly formed GRTU and Lone Star Beer. It seems that Lone Star Beer was having these outdoor shows back then and they would have a Trout tank for everyone to fish while at the show. Well after the show was over there was no real place to put these Trout until Canyon Lake was impounded. Native Texans who would go on to found GRTU knew those at Lone Star Beer and about those left over Trout, so they put them together with TPWD who was cash strapped. Thus the first experimental stockings were Lone Star Beer's leftover Trout. The studies of the stocked Trout showed they did fine in the river and TPWD Trout stocking program was on! Now many other studies followed, instream studies, biomass studies, and even the testing of different species of Trout: Rainbows, Cutthroats, Browns, and Brookies. In the late 60's and early 70's the river had all these species swimming around. So the Trout fishery owes it's existance to Guadalupe Floods, ACOE, Texas State Legislature, TPWD, GRTU, and ice cold Lone Star Beer.

As far as being and artificial fishery well certainly it is! Some of the best Trout Fisheries are artificial. Let's look at some of the close ones. The San Juan Tailwater in northwest New Mexico, that one is certainly nothing to scoff at. Another, the White, Norfork, and Little Red system in Arkansas. These are also some incredible waters which those who fish there know and the home of numerous and current World Records for Brown Trout. There are others of course but I think I have made my point. Artificial Tailwater Trout fisheries can be fabulous and well worth protecting and enhancing.

To answer about funding that GRTU has provided, yes it is significant and in fact if it were to dissolve, the fishery would be a just a shadow of what it is today. GRTU spends about 3 times as much as TPWD each year stocking Trout in the Guadalupe. And GRTU does more than just put it's money into the stocking of large Trout, we make numerous contributions that allows TPWD to do their necessary research when no funds were available from the state. We paid for TPWD intern's salaries to allow their fisheries programs to grow, tellemtery studies, temperature monitors, and so much more.

We also are responsible for approving grants to other TU Chapters to allow them to get the restoration programs off the ground, and we are in our 6th year of granting up to $5000 per year for these projects like, 2 different Rio Grande Cutthroat Trout restoration projects in New Mexico, restoration of creeks in the driftless area, South Platte in Colorado,and the study of illegally stocked Lake Trout in Yellowstone Lake which are decimating the core Yellowstone Cutthroat spawning populations. We are in the process of several enhancement projects on the Guadalupe with the cooperation of TPWD and ACOE. We support many non-profit organizations with our volunteer time and money like: Kidfish, Casting for Recovery (rehab for cancer patients), Wounded Warriors (to help with their rehabilitation), also sponser river cleanup efforts, support WORD (New Braunfels' Water Orientation and recreational District) to name a few. We received patitioner status with the TCEQ and took GBRA to court and eventually won the Sustained Summer flow agreement. This agreemment forces GBRA to release a minimum flows of 150 to 250cfs from May through September in years when the lake hits pool. This benefits not just Trout fishery but everyone who enjoys floating down the Guadalupe in the summer, the local economy, and generates 100,000's in additional tax revenues. GRTU is the largest TU Chapter in the world with over 5,000 members and about 650 in the Lease Access Program. It is only because we have so many generous members that we can afford these expenses. We are not a couple of millionairs trying to bend the world to our desires. Our total yearly budget is only about $120,000 with which we have to accomodate all these expenses.

And we do have some influence with TPWD who we both consider to be pardners in developing this fishery. Can we determine what the regulations are for this fishery, not really. We are just part of the public and really a small part of it when you consider all the Texas sportsmen out there, who all have a voice in what the fishery regs should be. TPWD was the one who suggested the creation of the TTZ. It had to go through a process of Town Hall meetings in which TPWD asked the public what they thought of the proposed regulation changes. Part of it was a no bait fishing regulation, but the local landowners voiced considerable opinion and this regulation was rejected. So the public was the one who actually determined what those regs would be. GRTU wanted much stricter regs including a 100% catch and release of Trout in the TTZ. We did no even come close to getting this approved.

So there you have it. GRTU spends 10's of thousands of dollars every year for the right to stock Rainbow Trout in the Guadalupe which immediately become the property of every citizen in the state of Texas. Thus when somebody illegally takes trout from the Guadalupe (and again as far as I can see noone has done that here), they are not stealing from GRTU or TPWD, they are stealing from every citizen in the state of Texas. and really themselves.

Jimbo

Dang, Jimbo, good read. Now I have yet another reason to throw back Lonestars at the Dam Red Barn after a long day on the Guadalupe. Every year I almost bite the bullet and become a member of TU, and this thread probably just pushed me over the edge to do it.

Good fish guys, nice to see so many huge trout caught. You should also have quite enough to write about in that article after this thread too! haha.

Just a word to the wise, if ever in doubt, ask a game warden, not someone on the fisheries side (regardless of title). The biologists are a completely different division of TPWD and therefore are pretty removed from the actual laws. They may be well informed at times, but in the end it is the game wardens that enforce the laws and know the most updated versions of them. Simply put, if you ask someone on the biologists side you're going to get an opinion. If you ask a game warden, you're going to hear it how they actually enforce it.

for Jimbo and Alex there is alot of info on here that would help out soooo many other people on this topic. its good to see this as peaceful as it is. but it would be nice to have GRTU and TPWD and everyone else involved with the trout to come together an make one simple article or pamplet for fishermen to be able to pick up read. there are alot of rules and regs out there on the topic of guadalupe trout and i think it was said above there is some bouncing around of info. we have to go to a few different websites for different parts of the law it seems like. not all guadalupe trout fishermen/women are from the area so if there was something put together for everyone to read that would be great. the biggest focus on this is the fish. most of us are catch and release fishermen/women and we never mean any harm to them . but its the fine lines of things that could get people in trouble when there was no harm or foul play ever intended. i started a thread on here a while back about what is artificial what is not and what is harvested or caught ? some people say catching the fish and releasing the fish is harvesting and some say catching the fish and taking it home is harvesting ? i think the fishing community is in great need of ONE regulations book on these trout.

The email was sent to TPWD inland fisheries. The fact that the anwser came from a person that has web knowledge shouldnt stop the knowledge on the law when you control inland fisheries.... Also game wardens were contacted in person along the river multiple times.


Txiken I agree a little clarity could help alot here.

Thanks evryone for your input.