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Dec 30th, 2023
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 Re: SAL Program
[Re: James_C]
#4397270
01/23/10 05:46 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,195
Anglers Lodge
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,195 |
Thanks scott. Maybe I will see ya up there in Athens when I visit. Ya working there ? If so, congrats ! Maybe go have a TFF lunch when I come up there sometime. Well, can't say I didn't try James. I offered on my dime. Guess I will have to settle for a Zapata steak. See ya next month................
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Re: SAL Program
[Re: Anglers Lodge]
#4397301
01/23/10 05:56 PM
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,411
TTU_fisherman
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,411 |
Some good into Scott. Thanks. As some have pointed out... all this talk and it simply comes down to the fact that each angler that catches one should get to do whatever they want with that fish, with no judgement from anyone. Carl, we can all just meet at the free SAL lunch we get for catching one this year right?  I bet Amistad will be back to its old ways here in a few years. The population of 1 and 2 year old fish last year looked unreal (Billions of them covering coves with plenty of bait.)
-Curtis
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Re: SAL Program
[Re: TTU_fisherman]
#4397319
01/23/10 06:02 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,195
Anglers Lodge
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,195 |
You catch one here and it will most likely be more than lunch ! Your right. The young population here has exploded as well as the 4-5 lb. bunch. Interesting year class there. The shock boat studies we did this last year confirmed it as well as the creel surveys and talking to everyone here at the shop. Come help me catch one ! Heck, we can go in my boat so ya don't have to haul yours from up there.............
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Re: SAL Program
[Re: TTU_fisherman]
#4397364
01/23/10 06:21 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 111
oldfartstillkicking
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 111 |
I wonder how many of the big fish are taken out by illegal netting in the mentioned lakes.Just a thought,Lake Fork is a long way from Mexico
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Re: SAL Program
[Re: oldfartstillkicking]
#4400175
01/24/10 07:41 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,834
NoWeighers
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,834 |
TPWD fisheries biologists are monitoring the growth rate of stocked Budweiser ShareLunker offspring as compared to resident wild fish in the reservoirs. The average ShareLunker offspring was 7.1 inches long and weighed 2.7 ounces. The average wild fish averaged 5.3 inches long and weighed 1.2 ounces.
One last thing.. "Wild" fish are not pure Florida fish.. This is another case of Confusung SL Babies and Pure Florida Strain bass.. Now if you told me that SL babies Were outgrowing the Pure Florids babies then you would be telling me something.. But you can't.. And how do they know these "Stocked " fish were from Sharelunker?? All tagged? Just wondering..
James Bendele
Falcon Lake Tackle
"On the eighth day, Man invented the Fish Hook."
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Re: SAL Program
[Re: Clucky]
#4400265
01/24/10 08:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,627
AndrewG - Lake Fork Guide
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,627 |
well apparently I mispoke. I did some research and Hydrilla Lakes' fishery collapsed and re-opened 4 years later. FWC claims it collapsed because TILAPIA over-ran the lake! Interesting point there I think... Also it is no longer a special opportunity/lottery just $50.00 a day per angler...Hydrilla Lake is on Tenoroc fish management area outside of Lakeland Florida, for those that want to look it up. FYI the best fishing in Florida is in Private Pits, if you go find some and hit them, that is where the big girls are;) Just a tip for that next vacation to Disney World..
Just my opinion but I think SAL is a great program and that if I was going to do something to improve texas fishing it would be the introduction of forage species along with stockings, I would love to see the Golden Shiner in Texas, maybe it is but I haven't seen it and they are really hard to miss. Also control the Tilapia they feed on hatchlings, plants and other things, and most importantly if you see a comorant there should be a law to shoot them on site.. I have seen them destroy lakes and cause e-coli outbreaks due to their spoils. My $0.02 there is a lot of areas that could be focused on and an attempt to promote superior genes through selective breeding would not appear on my top 10 list of things to change.. I fished Hydrilla last year at Tenoroc. It was free, just the 2 or 3 bucks they charge for any of the lakes. Its full of runts, I guess it didnt recover. I didnt realize what a little lake that had once been when I fished it or I'd have been throwing some bigger baits.
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Re: SAL Program
[Re: NoWeighers]
#4400768
01/24/10 11:27 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,772
Outdoordude
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,772 |
TPWD fisheries biologists are monitoring the growth rate of stocked Budweiser ShareLunker offspring as compared to resident wild fish in the reservoirs. The average ShareLunker offspring was 7.1 inches long and weighed 2.7 ounces. The average wild fish averaged 5.3 inches long and weighed 1.2 ounces.
One last thing.. "Wild" fish are not pure Florida fish.. This is another case of Confusung SL Babies and Pure Florida Strain bass.. Now if you told me that SL babies Were outgrowing the Pure Florids babies then you would be telling me something.. But you can't.. And how do they know these "Stocked " fish were from Sharelunker?? All tagged? Just wondering.. I'm not sure where that data was collected. TPWD has an undisclosed lake where they are doing intensive studies on the SAL offspring vs "wild" fish. (Again, you bring up a good point, Im not sure about the genetics of the wild population theyre sampling) If I remember correctly, when they get a sample of fish they are taking tissue or blood samples and scanning the genes of each fish. They look to see if those genes match the genes of the SALs and brood fish at the hatchery. By the same process, they can determine if its a pure Florida or mixed breed fish. If you're so skeptical and angry with the program, how about you call Dave Campbell, manager of the SAL program and ask him about all this data you're asking us to show you and tell him how he should improve that crappy bass population in Falcon. (david.campbell@tpwd.state.tx.us (903) 670-2230)
Scott Jones
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Re: SAL Program
[Re: Outdoordude]
#4400853
01/25/10 12:01 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,627
AndrewG - Lake Fork Guide
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,627 |
Arent the SALs pure florida strain? or so much percent FL strain? I just remember someone getting turned down on a big fish this past year because it wasnt pure enough.
Seems like stocking some pure FL strain would be a good idea. It would have to be cheaper than the SAL program. I like the SAL program, I dont see why it wouldnt be helping more instead of hurting. On the other hand, if people were pulling 13lbrs out of my home lake I'd be sick about it, regardless of what they did with the fish. Seems like they could grow their own pure FL strain 13lbers to breed in their pond. Im curious to know if theyve tracked any SALs after release and how the fish did after the ordeal.
I just think its awsome to have a fish and game dept. that puts so much emphasis on big bass. Cant wait to be a Texas resident.
Last edited by AndrewG; 01/25/10 12:02 AM.
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Re: SAL Program
[Re: AndrewG - Lake Fork Guide]
#4401043
01/25/10 12:53 AM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,834
NoWeighers
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,834 |
Scott.. I respect your opinion. But you guys are the ones taking for granted all the hype that they are creating a super fish. You guys regurgetate(sp) whatever they say as if there is no question that it is fact when NONE of it (The possibility that they are growing bigger fish due to SL) can be proven..
And I don't have to ask him or you how to improve the fishing in Falcon.. I already know.. Quit taking our big fish out of the lake!!
And we do not need to improve the bass population.. We have plenty. And if they quit taking OUR brood fish out of the lake we will have plenty of monsters too..
How many fry will one 13 pound fish produce in a year or two? Thousands and thousands, and thousands. All with good genes.. You put 200,000 SL fry in here every five or eight years.. Big Deal.. Half get eaten the first month. A 5-10% survival rate to one year is probably good..A few SL's will do that much more efficiently with NO cost..
BTW.. It is true that SL will only take 100% Florida fish..
And if the facts were so clear.. Why wouldn't PAW put out a Certified, Documented, Witnessed, Guaranteed report to squelch people like me that know the program is bogus??
See you on the water..
Last edited by NoWeighers; 01/25/10 12:59 AM.
James Bendele
Falcon Lake Tackle
"On the eighth day, Man invented the Fish Hook."
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Re: SAL Program
[Re: NoWeighers]
#4401174
01/25/10 01:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 344
cbow44
Angler
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Angler
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 344 |
perhaps I dreamed this. but I was under the impression that when Fork was impounded, they killed all the native fish from stock ponds through out the area to be flooded and stocked them with pure florida.
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Re: SAL Program
[Re: cbow44]
#4401403
01/25/10 02:10 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 382
hiodon
Angler
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Angler
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 382 |
Raven had 97% Florida alleles in 2005 ( Raven report ). In 2009, Operation World Record bass (ShareLunker offspring) were bigger, on average, than the non-ShareLunker offspring. "TPWDs ShareLunker program uses 13-pound or bigger bass donated by anglers in a selective breeding program, stocking the resulting fingerlings into public waters. Most are stocked as 1.5-inch fingerlings (some 78,000 in 2008), but a portion are designated as Operation World Record (OWR) fish and are reared to six inches before being stocked (more than 59,000 in 2008). The growth of the OWR fish is being monitored and compared to growth rates of wild fish by TPWD biologists. Now in its fourth year, the program collected fish from Lake Raven, a small lake in Huntsville State Park, that give a hint of what may lie ahead. While the average four-year-old wild fish from Lake Raven weighed 2.23 pounds, the average OWR fish weighed 2.88 pounds. And one of those OWR fish was 23 inches long and weighed a whopping 7.23 pounds!" Operation World Record article What this says to me is that ShareLunker offspring grew faster than regular old Florida bass. If that isn't hard evidence than I guess I don't know what is.
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Re: SAL Program
[Re: hiodon]
#4401869
01/25/10 03:23 AM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,772
Outdoordude
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,772 |
If they gave you a full report saying that there is a 99.999 percent possibility that the result of larger fish is correlated with the effects of the program, you could still choose to not believe it.
The data Hiodon provided points that the SAL fingerlings are doing better than the other fish, which is the point. But, they dont provide the statistical analysis with p-values and the whole shebang so we just have to take it for what it's worth.
Scott Jones
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Re: SAL Program
[Re: Outdoordude]
#4402536
01/25/10 12:41 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,834
NoWeighers
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,834 |
And it's worth nothing.. What hiodon pasted says "Wild Fish" Not Floridas.. There is a difference.. Read what it actually says.. Not what you want it to say. "Regular Old Floridas"
are SL fish. That's where they come from. From pure bred Florida fish.
The term Florida has been watered down to you guys to include any fish that has any Florida in it..
All fish swimming around in Texas waters are not Floridas!!! They may be part Florida.. But not pure.. Falcon's Genome is reported by PAW to be right around 82%.. Lots of lakes are lower. Some are higher..
Once again I say to you that they are not comparing SL fish to Pure Floridas.. That's Hard evidence.. Now you know..
James Bendele
Falcon Lake Tackle
"On the eighth day, Man invented the Fish Hook."
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Re: SAL Program
[Re: NoWeighers]
#4402651
01/25/10 01:52 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 382
hiodon
Angler
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Angler
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 382 |
I don't quite get what you are saying. TPWD compared the growth of first generation SL offspring to the growth of a bass population with 97% Florida allele expression. They're not "pure" Florida bass, but 97% is pretty dang close.
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