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Re: Amistad Fizz Study - July 2009 Results - In conjunction with Anglers Lodge Summer Trail
[Re: Raiderland]
#3674244
07/09/09 08:35 PM
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Here is the salt dip formula for you tournament directors. The salt used is "Ranch House Stock Salt" from the United Salt Corporation. http://www.unitedsalt.com . They are out of houston, texas. 3.5 lbs. / 15 gallons of water ________________________________________________________________ Hold fish that are in a net in the water for 10-12 seconds. Release your fish back into fresh water. You will noticed that they are stunned when put back into fresh water. This is a normal reaction. After about 30-60 seconds (or shorter time frame) , the fish will right themselves and swim off. Use the salt in a tank BY ITSELF. Have ANOTHER tank with the livewell addatives in it. We used the salt dip last and it worked wonderfully.
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Re: Amistad Fizz Study - July 2009 Results - In conjunction with Anglers Lodge Summer Trail
[Re: Anglers Lodge]
#3674267
07/09/09 08:40 PM
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There was no noticeable pattern as to size of the dead one's. Biggest dead was around 4 lbs. and the smallest a 14 incher. Only availability of food for these fish were the thousands of fry and fingerlings underneath that dock that could and did slip through the holes in the nets. They went into the nets to feed on the dead one's lying on the bottom of the nets. How much feeding on the fry/fingerlings is unknown. There was one noticeable pattern however. The bigger fish, above 4 lbs. and the winning catch as well, ALL needed to be fizzed. Some smaller one's needed it, but not like the bigger group.
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Re: Amistad Fizz Study - July 2009 Results - In conjunction with Anglers Lodge Summer Trail
[Re: South TX Legend]
#3674363
07/09/09 08:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,195
Anglers Lodge
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Great Post Carl, Very informative and I will surely now follow the sure life livewell care instructions to the letter.
Do not know the cost or time needed to get this type of weigh in done. But would you be willing to help with club level tournament weigh ins. My club may have a Sept tourny at Amistad, or Falcon and would love to see if we could arrange for your team to be there during weighin to assist with fish care. But I will tell you this much BumbleBee, a weigh-in procedure can only do so much. Getting the anglers to do it in the boat before, during and at weigh-in is the key. If not done in the boat, you can only do so much. That is where this study has pointed. Livewell care to begin with GREATLY reduces mortality initially and delayed. (You have heard people on here say this all along). If you would like to do something along those lines with your club, I would happy to do that too !
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Re: Amistad Fizz Study - July 2009 Results - In conjunction with Anglers Lodge Summer Trail
[Re: doctorb]
#3674698
07/09/09 09:54 PM
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Almost 40% mortality is a good rate for a summer tournament? Sounds awful to me. I am gathering data as we speak from studies done from other tournaments here at Amistad at the same time of year. I think you will see when I post these other studies, you just might think our results hung the moon. You will see 70-80% mortality rates with these others. I will post as soon as TP+W sends them to me. Not saying ours was stellar, just excellent in comparison with these, which is why I made my initial comment. There is a WHOLE LOT of room for improvement.
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Re: Amistad Fizz Study - July 2009 Results - In conjunction with Anglers Lodge Summer Trail
[Re: Anglers Lodge]
#3674727
07/09/09 10:02 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 83
pikeadon
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I don't see where the data you have displayed shows livewell care to begin with greatly reduces mortality. I'm not saying it doesn't, but unless you have the data separated by who was using recommended livewell/fishhandling care and who wasn't, you can't really say anything other than kill rates of 40% are to be expected and that a lot of apparently healthy fish died at a higher rate than did fish that needed to be fizzed when held for a few days. What the data does clearly show is that fish that need fizzing whether fizzed or not can survive at a pretty good rate if care is taken after the tourney. I think after tourney care as well as proper handling and livewell care are things that should be looked at to increase fish survival rate.
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Re: Amistad Fizz Study - July 2009 Results - In conjunction with Anglers Lodge Summer Trail
[Re: pikeadon]
#3674868
07/09/09 10:39 PM
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nomotortillas
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thats what seems confusing, it appears the "sick" fish whether fizzed or unfizzed had a much better survival rate than did the apparently healthy ones. What am I missing here.
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Re: Amistad Fizz Study - July 2009 Results - In conjunction with Anglers Lodge Summer Trail
[Re: nomotortillas]
#3674903
07/09/09 10:50 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
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bassinbunch
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Folks if you have ever done any type of scientific study you would know not to make any assumptions from one study with a small sample...Let these guys do the rest of them and combine the results.
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Re: Amistad Fizz Study - July 2009 Results - In conjunction with Anglers Lodge Summer Trail
[Re: bassinbunch]
#3674962
07/09/09 11:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 231
nomotortillas
Outdoorsman
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BUT... that would require a level of patience. well OK
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Re: Amistad Fizz Study - July 2009 Results - In conjunction with Anglers Lodge Summer Trail
[Re: pikeadon]
#3675034
07/09/09 11:23 PM
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I don't see where the data you have displayed shows livewell care to begin with greatly reduces mortality. I'm not saying it doesn't, but unless you have the data separated by who was using recommended livewell/fishhandling care and who wasn't, you can't really say anything other than kill rates of 40% are to be expected and that a lot of apparently healthy fish died at a higher rate than did fish that needed to be fizzed when held for a few days. What the data does clearly show is that fish that need fizzing whether fizzed or not can survive at a pretty good rate if care is taken after the tourney. I think after tourney care as well as proper handling and livewell care are things that should be looked at to increase fish survival rate. I do know who was doing what. We asked the one's that always do livewell care not to this time. And they didn't. All the one's we didn't say anything to didn't do anything but run their livewells as usual. How can I tell ? By what color the water is in your bag when you bring it to me at weigh-in. And I watched every single one of them fill their water from their livewells in their bags. There were none as such. The tournament coming up will show the results of pre-weigh-in care and the difference between the two. These results that you see are nothing more than running your livewell . I do agree with your last statement. All care pre,during and after should be looked at. And they are. This study has been going on since January of this year. The results will open some eyes and hopefully change some ways of doing things and thinking.
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Re: Amistad Fizz Study - July 2009 Results - In conjunction with Anglers Lodge Summer Trail
[Re: Anglers Lodge]
#3675117
07/09/09 11:47 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 26,650
senko9S
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the salt dip will also force some parasites to dettach if present. we did the same at bps with all incoming bait or display fish at 33ppt measured by a refractometer. for any who have never done it, dont do it to long till they go belly up. like carl said, its good to combat fungus. the salt stimulates mucas growth which will dramatically help replace damaged slime coat from handling, nets, boat carpet etc.
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Re: Amistad Fizz Study - July 2009 Results - In conjunction with Anglers Lodge Summer Trail
[Re: nomotortillas]
#3675119
07/09/09 11:47 PM
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thats what seems confusing, it appears the "sick" fish whether fizzed or unfizzed had a much better survival rate than did the apparently healthy ones. What am I missing here. The thinking is that answer will come with the dissolved oxygen levels. A meter will be put in each livewell next T when they come in to weigh-in. Then we can not only check the dissolved oxygen level in the wells, but see what mortality rate happens from "good" water in this next one. It will be an interesting result, and has me looking at livewell oxygen systems very seriously. I have the feeling the opposite will happen and knock that mortality rate down. We shall see. Not all livewells are created equal. I guess we could split it half and half, but that will be up to the biologist in charge.
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Re: Amistad Fizz Study - July 2009 Results - In conjunction with Anglers Lodge Summer Trail
[Re: BThomas]
#3675226
07/10/09 12:31 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 606
SATopWater
Pro Angler
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I guess even doing paper tournaments are hurting the population.. I'm curious what Carl has to say about this. I'm not sure how you came to this conclusion? Perry
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Re: Amistad Fizz Study - July 2009 Results - In conjunction with Anglers Lodge Summer Trail
[Re: SATopWater]
#3675487
07/10/09 01:55 AM
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The only way that one can be validated is if you put on a scuba suit and followed every single fish around that you caught for three days. There is mortality, I am sure. But a paper tournament is no different than everyday fishing. Only difference is your measuring every fish. I fished in a club (Austin Christian Bass Club) in Austin and to this day their system works. They also have the policy that all summer T's are held at night. It works great........when no money is involved such as their way of doing things. I enjoyed that type of tournament a lot.
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Re: Amistad Fizz Study - July 2009 Results - In conjunction with Anglers Lodge Summer Trail
[Re: Anglers Lodge]
#3676205
07/10/09 05:08 AM
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Joined: Feb 2004
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EdM
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Carl, were any fish fizzed during the day by the anglers? I'm curious if some of the non-sick fish may have been fizzed before weigh-in and maybe incorrectly.
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Re: Amistad Fizz Study - July 2009 Results - In conjunction with Anglers Lodge Summer Trail
[Re: EdM]
#3676224
07/10/09 05:35 AM
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Good Point !One angler has since told me he did, yes (two fish). Unknown for the rest of them. That is a possibility. Without seeing their technique, I cannot say one way or the other if it was done correctly or not during the T. There were no fish lying sideways on the bottom of the tank anyway from too much air let out. Otherwise technique is hard to tell unless you witness it. This particular team was one that nothing was said to. It did put a new wrench into the non-sick mortality question. Guess I will make some phone calls to find out. I marked their entry form as to who was told what. So that will be another interesting answer, but one that couldn't be pinpointed fish by fish. Will be interesting to find out. Thank you for pointing that out sir !
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