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Re: MLF bottom 10 losing tour card [Re: Big O Florida] #13857512 01/23/21 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Big O Florida
Originally Posted by Duck_Hunter

The growth in boat and tackle industries last year was 100% due to Covid. As you said, no one was allowed to do much besides be outside. At the same time, Covid put immense pressure on all businesses, especially new ones, and wreaked havoc on professional sports, especially ones where you have at least two dudes in a boat. Cities, counties and states were all in various state of lockdown. I recall you saying that wasn’t the issue with MLF last year and it was just an excuse for them to steal more money from people - which you’re continuing to do here now. Using last year to say MLF stole money by cancelling Redcrest without addressing the reason for it, playing the same about all of the other cancellations, including the expo, which you beat your drums incessantly about, is Jonathan taking into account the effect on a startup business in an extreme down cycle economy. You may be happy they suffered because you hate it, but you should still understand that a younger organization is going to suffer more than the only game in town for 50 years, all else being equal.

The “recently announced multi-year 7 figure media contract” was definitely influenced by MLF having however many 100s of hours of coverage across several different channels.

I’m sure one of the selling points to anglers was the TV coverage MLF has, since social media and TV coverage like that are the best and easiest ways to make money for anglers (and you don’t even have to be a pro; non-pro you tubers are killing it with their fishing channels). And MLF anglers being able to tell their sponsors they’re going to be on hundreds of hours of TV is appealing, but I don’t know the financials behind that or who sponsors who. But, how can you say MLF isn’t growing the sport when BASS could’ve had a similar deal to the one they recently signed when they were the biggest and oldest tournament trail in the industry but TV coverage wasn’t at all what were seeing now? It was in response to MLF having hundreds of hours of coverage across multiple networks, including CBS, and the selling point to Fox Sports was, I’m sure, “you’re competitor has 800 hours of fishing, let’s make a deal.” MLF grew the sport that way, and you’re trying to give BASS credit for growing the industry and sport by signing a 7 year deal in response? Co
me
on.


What I actually meant by “growing the sport” in addition to the TV coverage, is MLF made a product that’s way more TV friendly and also changed the tournament format that oftentimes results in incredibly intriguing TV, even for a sport like bass fishing. There are cameras on multiple guys for the last several minutes, all within a few ounces of each other, jockeying to make a cut, make a bigger check or win.

I like the five best format too, but adding live drama to the finish is appealing to way more people watching on TV or streaming. It’s much more exciting that watching a weigh in an hour after lines out. Allowing anglers to know in real time where they stand to the ounce adds intrigue and drama like other, way more popular sports. That’s how the MLF format has grown the sport. It appeals more to fans of stick and ball sports. If anyone has a casual interest in fishing, but doesn’t care enough to watch it on TV, having a format with more drama and last-second theatrics without having to wait to see who wins is appealing.

They can coexist without a doubt, but you’re not taking any of this into account. It’s just blind hate, cherry-picking facts, misconstruing facts, and more.


Come on man... for how many years was BASS owned by ESPN? And before that they were a huge TV thing for years and a many related and successful fishing shows were born and spun off as a result of the “BASS - Big stage, Big Fish” brand. Roland Martin, Hank Parker, the king Bill Dance, Jimmy Houston, etc... all of those guys media exposure and success in subsequent TV markets is directly related to BASS... MLF - they are only really known for trying to create a second rate reality TV show based on what Ray Scott did with the concept of old BASS and the secret destinations equal boats, etc... sure, their format is different, but it’s been criticized more than praised. The Fox Sports deal had nothing whatsoever to do with MLF and certainly wasn’t influenced by MLF’s rerun coverage on sub par back channels owned by the same entity as MLF itself. Sure, I’ll give you the coverage of BASS degraded while under the ownership of ESPN, but it has never went away and BASS themselves weren’t in control of the TV coverage... ESPN was. So, come on man... cherry picking and revisionist history - me?


Exactly my point. Owned by ESPN on Saturday mornings. The tournaments weren’t flashed on nine channels for 1,000 hours a year (that’s hyperbole). Bass was on a gravy train with biscuit wheels. New show comes in to town, with a “billionaire owner” as you like to point out, and he has connections to TV networks. All the sudden, their is 800 hours of bass fishing showcasing a tour that’s more relatable to the average sports fan who might also fish. Then, a year later, a rival sports network picks up BASS, which rested on its laurels for five decades and all of the sudden has to adjust.

The format has been criticized more than praised by you, the disgruntled old guard. The disgruntled pro who feels wronged. The disgruntled parent of an angler who bankrolled a kid who didn’t make it and feels slighted.

Competition is a good thing. ESPN is a failing entity, by the way.


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Re: MLF bottom 10 losing tour card [Re: Big O Florida] #13857514 01/23/21 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Big O Florida
Originally Posted by Duck_Hunter
Originally Posted by SAKS
Originally Posted by Big O Florida

I don’t tell anyone who or what to follow or watch, I just bring to light for discussion observations I have of MLF that perhaps will give someone something to think about and research themselves if they are contemplating getting involved with them in some capacity. My perspective as being an outside observer or industry insider is irrelevant, but I think both see and question the same types of things I’ve questioned and opined on. And you are correct, the perspective and view point of anyone regarding this is subjective. It seems not may people understand that, but I do. That’s why you won’t see me personally bash or insult them directly for having their own perspective. I will just try to counter it with information. To address one of the questions above, I don’t have a list detailing the departures of sponsors... perhaps MJ can help you with that, as that’s in his wheel house... but I took Boyd Duckett at his word in a recent article when he used that (loss of sponsorship because of COVID) as an excuse to introduce entry-fees into the 2021 BPT. As far as what BASS will do with the money they receive for signing that massive multi-year live TV and media contract; I would hope the anglers become a beneficiary of some of it, but they also should use it to expand and improve their existing infrastructure to support more circuits and affiliations with the BASS brand. Perhaps they will form a union of sorts with JM and his new venture on the west coast and be part of that as an expansion to BASS. Word is, not all will be lost for MLF when that comes to life - rumor is their new tour could be prominently named MPGT and those who remain loyal to the MLF kook-aid will get 1 complimentary bedding set for each event, delivered directly to the anglers airb&b abode.

Now the part of the post that applies to me in this I can totally get on board with. The way it's written and worded makes it a discussion. I do think your being an outsider vs insider is relevant but only in how serious you expect people to take your opinions. If your a bona fide insider you will be taken seriously but if your an outsider they view you as a raving lunatic. Either way it's all good. Hell you may be right for all I know. I am still going to watch though.

Bonafide insider matters if he continues to refuse to disclose his credentials/affiliation. If he isn’t an insider, then he is making statements that appear t be based on inside information without actually having inside information and is just a troll. His entire purpose in signing up for a TFF account has been to disparage MLF, but his handle refers to a lake in Florida.

If he just makes arguments because he hates it and disagrees, fine. But that’s not how his entire post history has come off. He signed up to bash MLF and that’s it. He claims to know inside things, or alludes to knowing inside things, and then calls MLF thieves and liars and more. It’s too late for him to disclose his affiliation with BASS or a BASS angler or the FLW before it was purchased because of the way he has carried himself since he joined TFF. Whatever reputation he has in the industry would be ruined. Yet he continues to disparage MLF with ridiculous claims, falsehoods, misrepresented fact, half truths under a fake name. It’s either someone affiliated with BASS/old FLW/the industry in some way, or the biggest BASS fan on the planet. I’m guessing it’s the former. Especially if you look at his early posts about MLF stealing mon
ey.


Did I join TFF to bash MLF exclusively, no... did I join TFF to discuss MLF, yes... when I joined there was an ongoing MLF discussion and it seemed logical since it’s a tournament fishing type discussion site and the Florida dedicated side seemed dead at the time and nothing else really exists. I will reiterate that being an industry insider or just an astute observer from the outside is irrelevant, and anything I’ve ever commented on or put forward has already been publicly disclosed or discussed, and or speculated out loud about. Am I a fan of the BASS tournament fishing scene, yes and have been since I was a young boy. You don’t have to be an insider of the industry to hear anecdotal stories about how MLF has conducted themselves behind the scenes with sponsors or anglers, because it’s been talked about somewhere, on someone’s YouTube channel, social media account, etc... and it’s typically widespread, not just here on TFF where I may bring it to light for discussion and debate. Further, I have never come out and said they’ve stolen money. Have I used terms like snatch purse, etc... yes, because I truly believe that’s what they have done. Some argue it’s business, some argue it’s their right to do what they want... my argument is their whole platform has been to make the industry bigger and better for the anglers, yet there has been example after example of them doing things that are completely contradictory to their mission statement.

Let’s start at beginning and formation of BPT - that was a high pressure tactical maneuver that was executed by a dozen or so disgruntled BASS insiders. There is no doubt in my mind there was a huge carrot dangled in front of those who they were trying to influence, and that was the “no-entry-fees” big show. Well, here we are just 2 short years in and look at how that has worked out for them. It wasn’t but a short time after their first season that they acquired FLW after failing to acquire BASS 3x. The first order of business for MLF once the sale of FLW to them was announced was to arbitrarily cancel the FW Cup. All the arguments for MLF are based on it being their right to do so, and the unsubstantiated claims FLW was headed for bankruptcy and MLF saved them. A contested estate battle, yes... bankruptcy, no. That action alone set the ever lasting tone and there is hardly no one standing up for all the anglers who got cheated out of a huge purse of money that they believed was going to be available to them to fish for. Contrarily, there sure is a many (on TFF) that are defending MLF... question is, just how was that beneficial to the sport and the anglers of? Next was the revelation of another underhanded move by MLF - the Bass Federation kid who won the “live the dream” package. It took a major social media blast by the kid and the Federation to get MLF to just honor the long established commitment that FLW made... MLF was originally telling them to go pound sand, just like the anglers who got cheated out of the FW Cup. Keep in mind, the two primary stakeholders in MLF are multi-billionaires, and yes, that matters if they don’t want to look hypocritical to their mission statement of growing the sport and being better for the anglers. and all that happened prior to 2020 season start. i wont rehash it again, but much, much of the same has happened during the 2020 season, and from my perspective no one here on TFF (accept me) is holding MLF's feet to the fire about doing whats right for growing the sport and the betterment for the anglers... no matter how you slice it, thats a lot of purse money that was originally slated to go to anglers was taken away... have i called it snatched off the angler table, yes because it seemingly was... but the word stolen didn't come or originate from me. Where did that money go that it helped grow the sport and make things better for the anglers? Thats the question... do you have the answer? start with 2020 FLW Pro AOY award that was reduced by $100k from historically what’s been paid out using the term “TBD” in the posted rules. Being good for the industry and the anglers is subjective, and it’s not just me who recognizes what’s happened...


You started a thread with the term “purse snatchers” in it relating to MLF/FLW. I think we’re done here.


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Re: MLF bottom 10 losing tour card [Re: Lone_Wolf] #13857518 01/23/21 07:49 AM
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The definition of purse snatching is theft. It’s literally a type of theft. All of the sudden, you’re using rational thoughts and discussions. I’m all for it. Keep it up. The forum and your posts will be better off.


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Re: MLF bottom 10 losing tour card [Re: Dan21XRS] #13857519 01/23/21 08:07 AM
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Big O Florida Offline
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Originally Posted by Dan21XRS
Originally Posted by Dubee
Originally Posted by Dan21XRS
Originally Posted by Dubee
Josh Seale, see what I mean. He is still trying to say the Redcrest was cancelled and the money stolen. A monkey could understand that the Redcrest happening in a few weeks is for the 2020 season. The fact that they decided to have it in the spring instead of the fall is irrelevant. Just like the classic in June of this year is for the 2020 season


Ok, so they had a 2019 and moved the 2020 event to 2021... So will they have an additional 2021 Redcrap???... If no, they've canceled a RedCrap... Take your pick it's either the 2020 or 2021 event that didn't happen... So where did the money go???... Dan


Hopefully you are joking. I bet even big o understands but just keeps harping on it. The money didn't go anywhere. It will be going to the anglers when they have the tournament next month. All they did was move from fall to spring. Just like the Classic did years ago. It's still the championship for the 2020 season. Just because it's after Jan 1 means nothing


So, if the 2019 was staged in 2019 and the 2020 was moved to 2021, there wasn't an big event in 2020, right??? It's pretty easy to say the "moved" it, but in reality they canceled it... Now, if they double the money for the scheduled 2021 event no harm no foul... But if it's the same payout somebody got a big bonus and it wasn't the fishermen... Dan


This gets into the weeds a little bit, but if deadcrest 2021 happens on this latest newly scheduled date, it will have been a full 18 months since the last one. Oh, did I mention they also left Oklahoma out to dry on having the to big to describe expo and tournament as well? They had originally planned to have it there but then cancelled the biggest expo on earth, then weeks later moved and rescheduled the tournament itself too... lmfao

Re: MLF bottom 10 losing tour card [Re: Duck_Hunter] #13857520 01/23/21 08:21 AM
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Big O Florida Offline
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Originally Posted by Duck_Hunter
The definition of purse snatching is theft. It’s literally a type of theft. All of the sudden, you’re using rational thoughts and discussions. I’m all for it. Keep it up. The forum and your posts will be better off.


You all will twist yourselves into pretzels to avoid talking about what happened to the 2020 FLW Pro AOY purse that has been historically $100k. I’ve asked multiple times now and not one of you have an explanation for that... whatever you want to call it. At beginning of 2020 MLF distributed its talking points to all the water boys and they ran with the narrative of how MLF was making things better, lowering entry fees and increasing payouts in the FLW circuits, and under the FLW Pro AOY rules for 2020 it stated the payout was “TBD”... no one for a minute thought that was going to mean a reduction of $100k considering the overall narrative the water boys were disseminating on behalf of MLF. When B.Duckett was cornered with the question in an interview on BTL late last year, he seemed annoyed at the question and then blamed the angler commission for the payout reduction while avoiding the most pressing question of “when were the anglers actually informed” they were fishing for significantly reduced purse.... again, I find it humorous that no one has a legit argument that also supports the over riding MLF narrative of growing the sport and better for the anglers, yadda, yadda, yadda...

Re: MLF bottom 10 losing tour card [Re: Lone_Wolf] #13857523 01/23/21 09:45 AM
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I like Big O and most all he says is accurate BUT I am going fishing, this [censored] gives me a headache.

Big O and Dubee just need to get on the phone and talk it through. Then give us a report as to who "won".

Re: MLF bottom 10 losing tour card [Re: Lone_Wolf] #13857590 01/23/21 01:05 PM
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Well so far, Big O has been correct on more issues than Dubee. Look at the number of guys that left already, some with no backup plan. Guys aren’t leaving because it’s great over there.

Re: MLF bottom 10 losing tour card [Re: grout-scout] #13857639 01/23/21 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by grout-scout
Well so far, Big O has been correct on more issues than Dubee. Look at the number of guys that left already, some with no backup plan. Guys aren’t leaving because it’s great over there.


look at the big picture....5 fishermen leaving out of the original 80 isn't exactly a mass exodus,94% of the best and most established pros believe MLF is now the dominant fishing trail, the wave of the future and the television ratings prove this.......all the yapping about them postponing Redcrest is ignoring the fact that every major sport has had numerous cancellations this past year due to the covid 19 pandemic....MLF is providing 800 hours of TV exposure and a venue where the fishermen share that revenue along with revenue from the cities where they hold events and exhibitor income at their championships.....also if MLF hadn't of bought the FLW,it's almost certain FLW would have ceased to exist.....

Re: MLF bottom 10 losing tour card [Re: grout-scout] #13857664 01/23/21 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by grout-scout
Well so far, Big O has been correct on more issues than Dubee. Look at the number of guys that left already, some with no backup plan. Guys aren’t leaving because it’s great over there.


A lot of those guys are still there because they really have no alternative outside of trying to requalify for the Elites, or maybe in another year getting into the NPFL. And what’s going to be more interesting to see is if they can make it through the whole season this year without cancelling the majority of their tournaments - cancelling tournaments may be the final nails needed in the coffin. I suspect at end of this season they will lose their BP marquee support too, as its rumored JM is involved in a new venture out west designed for filling a long open void in the BASS tournament scene west of the DFW metro. That’s being evidenced by his massive parring down of pro staff in white river marine, etc... so me thinks BPT is on borrowed time and an extremely unstable foundation. Sadly, the remnants of FLW will only remain in a severely weakened state if there is a complete change of ownership and management; if that doesn’t happen, it will go under too. The only ones who will have financially benefitted will be the two multi-billionaires who sit atop of the equity investor pyramid, the rest will be burned.

Re: MLF bottom 10 losing tour card [Re: beartrap] #13857671 01/23/21 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by beartrap
Originally Posted by grout-scout
Well so far, Big O has been correct on more issues than Dubee. Look at the number of guys that left already, some with no backup plan. Guys aren’t leaving because it’s great over there.


look at the big picture....5 fishermen leaving out of the original 80 isn't exactly a mass exodus,94% of the best and most established pros believe MLF is now the dominant fishing trail, the wave of the future and the television ratings prove this.......all the yapping about them postponing Redcrest is ignoring the fact that every major sport has had numerous cancellations this past year due to the covid 19 pandemic....MLF is providing 800 hours of TV exposure and a venue where the fishermen share that revenue along with revenue from the cities where they hold events and exhibitor income at their championships.....also if MLF hadn't of bought the FLW,it's almost certain FLW would have ceased to exist.....


My guess is no one at BASS was surveyed in that poll.. LMFAO - they don’t understand that asking themselves who is best has been MLF’s problem all along. They are in an echo chamber. The fans and sponsors have pretty much spoken... they just keep wanting a recount of the votes. Sound familiar? Like I said before, they have a marquee supporter in the wings... the newly named tour will be the MPGT... complimentary bedding provided to all pros who participate.

Re: MLF bottom 10 losing tour card [Re: beartrap] #13857672 01/23/21 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by beartrap
Originally Posted by grout-scout
Well so far, Big O has been correct on more issues than Dubee. Look at the number of guys that left already, some with no backup plan. Guys aren’t leaving because it’s great over there.


look at the big picture....5 fishermen leaving out of the original 80 isn't exactly a mass exodus,94% of the best and most established pros believe MLF is now the dominant fishing trail, the wave of the future and the television ratings prove this.......all the yapping about them postponing Redcrest is ignoring the fact that every major sport has had numerous cancellations this past year due to the covid 19 pandemic....MLF is providing 800 hours of TV exposure and a venue where the fishermen share that revenue along with revenue from the cities where they hold events and exhibitor income at their championships.....also if MLF hadn't of bought the FLW,it's almost certain FLW would have ceased to exist.....



It’s 6 as of now. If they had an easier exit strategy, it would be more. When a guy like Hackney that was as pizzed at BASS as he was, tucks his tail and admits that he was wrong, it’s got to be a bad situation. You seem to pass over the idea that some of the biggest names left the BPT, these aren’t scrubs leaving it.

Re: MLF bottom 10 losing tour card [Re: grout-scout] #13857700 01/23/21 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by grout-scout
Well so far, Big O has been correct on more issues than Dubee. Look at the number of guys that left already, some with no backup plan. Guys aren’t leaving because it’s great over there.


It's funny that the handful of guys saying big o is well spoken and provides proof. Are the same guys that have always hated BPT. He said Redcrest was cancelled and the owners kept the money. Wrong. It is next month. He said the owners kept all the money for the cancelled BPT tournaments. Wrong. They let the BPT anglers fish the last 3 FLW tournaments and added over 1.5 million to the prize money. He has claimed many times MLF has lost "massive" amounts of sponsors due to how shady they are. Then when asked to list this massive amount of sponsors that left. He says he doesn't know but Boyd said they lost sponsors due to covid. Anyone can take all of his claims and prove them wrong. The only was on here that keep saying he is well spoken and provides proof are the guys that have hated BPT since it was formed. And Dan, no I'm not on their payroll. I have zero stake in it. It wouldn't affect me one bit if the went out of business tomorrow

Re: MLF bottom 10 losing tour card [Re: Dubee] #13857711 01/23/21 03:05 PM
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Big O Florida Offline
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Originally Posted by Dubee
Originally Posted by grout-scout
Well so far, Big O has been correct on more issues than Dubee. Look at the number of guys that left already, some with no backup plan. Guys aren’t leaving because it’s great over there.


It's funny that the handful of guys saying big o is well spoken and provides proof. Are the same guys that have always hated BPT. He said Redcrest was cancelled and the owners kept the money. Wrong. It is next month. He said the owners kept all the money for the cancelled BPT tournaments. Wrong. They let the BPT anglers fish the last 3 FLW tournaments and added over 1.5 million to the prize money. He has claimed many times MLF has lost "massive" amounts of sponsors due to how shady they are. Then when asked to list this massive amount of sponsors that left. He says he doesn't know but Boyd said they lost sponsors due to covid. Anyone can take all of his claims and prove them wrong. The only was on here that keep saying he is well spoken and provides proof are the guys that have hated BPT since it was formed. And Dan, no I'm not on their payroll. I have zero stake in it. It wouldn't affect me one bit if the went out of business tomorrow


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Re: MLF bottom 10 losing tour card [Re: Dubee] #13857716 01/23/21 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Dubee
Originally Posted by grout-scout
Well so far, Big O has been correct on more issues than Dubee. Look at the number of guys that left already, some with no backup plan. Guys aren’t leaving because it’s great over there.


It's funny that the handful of guys saying big o is well spoken and provides proof. Are the same guys that have always hated BPT. He said Redcrest was cancelled and the owners kept the money. Wrong. It is next month. He said the owners kept all the money for the cancelled BPT tournaments. Wrong. They let the BPT anglers fish the last 3 FLW tournaments and added over 1.5 million to the prize money. He has claimed many times MLF has lost "massive" amounts of sponsors due to how shady they are. Then when asked to list this massive amount of sponsors that left. He says he doesn't know but Boyd said they lost sponsors due to covid. Anyone can take all of his claims and prove them wrong. The only was on here that keep saying he is well spoken and provides proof are the guys that have hated BPT since it was formed. And Dan, no I'm not on their payroll. I have zero stake in it. It wouldn't affect me one bit if the went out of business tomorrow





I don’t like Duckett and what he stands for, I don’t think anglers deserve to be paid to fish, if they don’t win. Nobody is forcing them to fish and it’s obvious that most don’t make the number of sales that they think they do.

If I told you that I was giving you a bonus check in 2019 and you didn’t get it, how does that benefit you? So again, unless they have 2 Redcrest in 2020, that money disappeared.

Re: MLF bottom 10 losing tour card [Re: grout-scout] #13857726 01/23/21 03:14 PM
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Big O Florida Offline
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Originally Posted by grout-scout
Originally Posted by Dubee
Originally Posted by grout-scout
Well so far, Big O has been correct on more issues than Dubee. Look at the number of guys that left already, some with no backup plan. Guys aren’t leaving because it’s great over there.


It's funny that the handful of guys saying big o is well spoken and provides proof. Are the same guys that have always hated BPT. He said Redcrest was cancelled and the owners kept the money. Wrong. It is next month. He said the owners kept all the money for the cancelled BPT tournaments. Wrong. They let the BPT anglers fish the last 3 FLW tournaments and added over 1.5 million to the prize money. He has claimed many times MLF has lost "massive" amounts of sponsors due to how shady they are. Then when asked to list this massive amount of sponsors that left. He says he doesn't know but Boyd said they lost sponsors due to covid. Anyone can take all of his claims and prove them wrong. The only was on here that keep saying he is well spoken and provides proof are the guys that have hated BPT since it was formed. And Dan, no I'm not on their payroll. I have zero stake in it. It wouldn't affect me one bit if the went out of business tomorrow





I don’t like Duckett and what he stands for, I don’t think anglers deserve to be paid to fish, if they don’t win. Nobody is forcing them to fish and it’s obvious that most don’t make the number of sales that they think they do.

If I told you that I was giving you a bonus check in 2019 and you didn’t get it, how does that benefit you? So again, unless they have 2 Redcrest in 2020, that money disappeared.



Grout - the ones who are in constant defense of MLF never do their own homework to back up and support their disagreement with what’s said by someone else... have you noticed that. But as soon as support is provided to support one of my claims it’s dismissed and turned into a semantics battle. I am still waiting on one of them to address the 2020 FLW Pro AOY and the missing $100k... I am not holding my breath.

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