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Re: Ethanol Observation
[Re: Spiderman]
#12344222
07/17/17 05:31 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,240
Metal Man
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,240 |
LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT...
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Re: Ethanol Observation
[Re: Spiderman]
#12344236
07/17/17 05:37 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,740
Flippin-Out
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,740 |
Ethanol reduces fuel efficiency, per admission by estimated mileage ratings for vehicles. So, we are forced to add something to gasoline that makes the vehicle's efficiency lower, thereby causing the total fuel gallons burned to increase. How many fewer gallons would we burn if we didn't add something that doesn't really want to burn in the first place? How much less pollutant would enter the atmosphere if we skipped the ethanol and therefore burned fewer gallons of non-E fuel to begin with? (This line of thinking takes advantage of today's clean-burning engine technology that functions regardless of ethanol.)
Once the difference in gallons of non-E vs. E-laced fuel is determined, consider the additional energy/pollution to manufacture, transport (think tanker truck), store, and pump those gallons. Is there really any savings at all?
Last edited by Flippin-Out; 07/17/17 05:39 PM.
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Re: Ethanol Observation
[Re: Spiderman]
#12344240
07/17/17 05:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,144
fly_on_a_xpress
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,144 |
Monsanto!!!! Nothing else needs to be said.
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Re: Ethanol Observation
[Re: Flippin-Out]
#12344411
07/17/17 07:26 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 121,182
hopalong
Pescador Loco
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Pescador Loco
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 121,182 |
Ethanol reduces fuel efficiency, per admission by estimated mileage ratings for vehicles. So, we are forced to add something to gasoline that makes the vehicle's efficiency lower, thereby causing the total fuel gallons burned to increase. How many fewer gallons would we burn if we didn't add something that doesn't really want to burn in the first place? How much less pollutant would enter the atmosphere if we skipped the ethanol and therefore burned fewer gallons of non-E fuel to begin with? (This line of thinking takes advantage of today's clean-burning engine technology that functions regardless of ethanol.)
Once the difference in gallons of non-E vs. E-laced fuel is determined, consider the additional energy/pollution to manufacture, transport (think tanker truck), store, and pump those gallons. Is there really any savings at all? exactly, when you have to consume more energy to make something that lessens the energy produced by your fuel you lose on both counts. ethanol is and always has been a huge boondoggle on the american people. food prices have gone up due to ethanol, crops have been replaced with the corn that carried a price guarantee. the carbon footprint for production is likely more than the savings gained with use of ethanol. cost of vehicles has increased due to the technology needed to produce ethanol compatible engines/fuel systems. small engines have been ruined, boat engines ruined, maintenance is increased due to ethanol. the list is long. ethanol sucks!
" Hop, set the hook"! hopalong 99,999 TexDawg 99,999 FJB! not my president by a long shot!
lake fork FISHERMANS COVE MARINA/reservations - 903 474 7479
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Re: Ethanol Observation
[Re: fly_on_a_xpress]
#12344415
07/17/17 07:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,736
txshotgun
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,736 |
Monsanto!!!! Nothing else needs to be said. Actually, if you think Monsanto is the root of all evil you're really not analytical as much as "follow the crowd 'cause is sounds good". Here's a quick test to see if I'm right. GMOs are bad! True or false? Go!
Recycle! Become an organ donor!
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Re: Ethanol Observation
[Re: txshotgun]
#12344417
07/17/17 07:32 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,240
Metal Man
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,240 |
Monsanto!!!! Nothing else needs to be said. Actually, if you think Monsanto is the root of all evil you're really not analytical as much as "follow the crowd 'cause is sounds good". Here's a quick test to see if I'm right. GMOs are bad! True or false? Go!
LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT...
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Re: Ethanol Observation
[Re: Allison1]
#12344420
07/17/17 07:35 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,567
9094
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,567 |
I wish some of you who are informed show us the alternatives to ethanol in gasoline. That would go a long way to make the discussion interesting. Ethanol is used as an oxygenate that makes gasoline burn more completely and cleaner. There are alternatives but in the arguments against ethanol they never get mentioned.
So are you saying ethanol is bad and you haven't a clue as to what to do about clean burning gasoline or you have reason to believe the alternative is better. It would make a better case to show the alternative.
There is no need for alternatives. It is proven more green house gas is produced in the production of ethanol than it saves from exhaust in a car. The alternative is exactly what is happening, cars are being built that get 25 to 50% better gas mileage and that cuts the carbon emissions. Having a mandate on ethanol in gas only props up an industry,(corn farming) it does not help the environment at all. Why use something that is just a trade off? Yes it does make gasoline burn cleaner in a gasoline combustion engine but EVERY piece of machinery used to produce it runs on diesel. So why use something that is just a trade off. It is just like every other EPA regulation or environmental law passed. There is no gain or even at times a loss for the environment.
Retirement best job ever.
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Re: Ethanol Observation
[Re: Metal Man]
#12344427
07/17/17 07:37 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,240
Metal Man
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,240 |
LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT...
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Re: Ethanol Observation
[Re: 9094]
#12344430
07/17/17 07:38 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,240
Metal Man
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,240 |
I wish some of you who are informed show us the alternatives to ethanol in gasoline. That would go a long way to make the discussion interesting. Ethanol is used as an oxygenate that makes gasoline burn more completely and cleaner. There are alternatives but in the arguments against ethanol they never get mentioned.
So are you saying ethanol is bad and you haven't a clue as to what to do about clean burning gasoline or you have reason to believe the alternative is better. It would make a better case to show the alternative.
There is no need for alternatives. It is proven more green house gas is produced in the production of ethanol than it saves from exhaust in a car. The alternative is exactly what is happening, cars are being built that get 25 to 50% better gas mileage and that cuts the carbon emissions. Having a mandate on ethanol in gas only props up an industry,(corn farming) it does not help the environment at all. Why use something that is just a trade off? Yes it does make gasoline burn cleaner in a gasoline combustion engine but EVERY piece of machinery used to produce it runs on diesel. So why use something that is just a trade off. It is just like every other EPA regulation or environmental law passed. There is no gain or even at times a loss for the environment.
Last edited by Metal Man; 07/17/17 07:38 PM.
LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT...
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Re: Ethanol Observation
[Re: Spiderman]
#12344445
07/17/17 07:44 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 121,182
hopalong
Pescador Loco
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Pescador Loco
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 121,182 |
some fun facts. * Ethanol from corn costs about $1.74 per gallon to produce, compared with about 95 cents to produce a gallon of gasoline. "That helps explain why fossil fuels -- not ethanol -- are used to produce ethanol," Pimentel said. "The growers and processors can't afford to burn ethanol to make ethanol. U.S. drivers couldn't afford it either, if it weren't for government subsidies to artificially lower the price." * An acre of U.S. corn yields about 7,110 pounds of corn for processing into 328 gallons of ethanol. But planting, growing and harvesting that much corn requires about 140 gallons of fossil fuels and costs $347 per acre, according to Pimentel's analysis. Thus, even before corn is converted to ethanol, the feedstock costs $1.05 per gallon of ethanol. * Adding up the energy costs of corn production and its conversion to ethanol, 131,000 Btu are needed to make 1 gallon of ethanol. One gallon of ethanol has an energy value of only 77,000 Btu. "Put another way," Pimentel said, "about 70 percent more energy is required to produce ethanol than the energy that actually is in ethanol. Every time you make 1 gallon of ethanol, there is a net energy loss of 54,000 Btu." * The average U.S. automobile, traveling 10,000 miles a year on pure ethanol (not a gasoline-ethanol mix), would need about 852 gallons of the corn-based fuel. This would take 11 acres to grow, based on net ethanol production. This is the same amount of cropland required to feed seven Americans. * If all the automobiles in the United States were fueled with 100 percent ethanol, a total of about 97 percent of U.S. land area would be needed to grow the corn feedstock. Corn would cover nearly the total land area of the United States. https://www.organicconsumers.org/scienti...ethanol-cornell
" Hop, set the hook"! hopalong 99,999 TexDawg 99,999 FJB! not my president by a long shot!
lake fork FISHERMANS COVE MARINA/reservations - 903 474 7479
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Re: Ethanol Observation
[Re: Metal Man]
#12344448
07/17/17 07:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,736
txshotgun
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,736 |
Monsanto!!!! Nothing else needs to be said. Actually, if you think Monsanto is the root of all evil you're really not analytical as much as "follow the crowd 'cause is sounds good". Here's a quick test to see if I'm right. GMOs are bad! True or false? Go! I already know you're not analytical Metal Man. You're like the poster child for "get on the bandwagon despite lacking evidence.
Recycle! Become an organ donor!
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Re: Ethanol Observation
[Re: txshotgun]
#12344816
07/18/17 12:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,144
fly_on_a_xpress
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,144 |
Monsanto is the root of the problem!!! This has nothing to do with gmo's. I suggest you do a little research on that company.
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Re: Ethanol Observation
[Re: fly_on_a_xpress]
#12344854
07/18/17 12:41 AM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,240
Metal Man
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 2,240 |
Monsanto is the root of the problem!!! This has nothing to do with gmo's. I suggest you do a little research on that company. 
LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT...
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Re: Ethanol Observation
[Re: Spiderman]
#12345613
07/18/17 02:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,439
Gamblinman
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 4,439 |
EPA is the real enemy. Get rid of some of the douchebags behind them and let our petroleum producers drill and refine.
We could put the Middle east out of business and the American economy could once again rule.
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Re: Ethanol Observation
[Re: Spiderman]
#12345619
07/18/17 02:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 50,380
fouzman
Methuselah
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Methuselah
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 50,380 |
We will NEVER put the Middle east out of business. Unless you'll be happy paying $5/gallon-$10/gallon for your gasoline.
Coincidence is His way of remaining anonymous.
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