Doc, the problem with your analogy is it makes the assumption that the bass arrive to TPWD in perfect condition, and that's simply not the case. Multiple photo ops, mishandling, improperly aerated livewells, heat, etc all take their toll on these big fish.

Amen! Every time this debate comes up it cracks me up. I used to be pretty hardcore against it because I always thought that as long as most 13+ pound fish were being removed from the lakes we would never see the state record fall, but since then I have realized the fishing in our state is awesome for the most part, especially when compared to most others outside FL and CA.

Does SAL work? Has it improved the overall quality of fish in our lakes? No one really knows for sure. Again, its a few fish....yes they were special giant fish and yes they died but again, it won't do ANYTHING to the lakes they came from. Those fish have spawned many many times already so the genetics are already there.

I guess as usual, these are all just opinions, and we all know they are like A-holes, everyone has one.

Not all the fish that go through the program die, I have proof of that....just saying

I read what you typed just fine. I asked you to clarify what you meant. How can I put words in your mouth by quoting you? How did you not say what I said you said if I quote it directly? And what the heck does poaching have to do with SAL, or letting nature run its course if people want to poach or catch and release?

You think catch and release was a thing before tons of PR work went into spreading that idea? Bass fishing tourneys used to have about the same outcome as bow fishing tourneys do currently before the catch and release movement got legs under it. You are a darn fool and too simple to even realize it. I feel bad for you honestly. Think harder before you type something instead of implicating me to be a liar or attacking my intentions when I quote you directly next time. You have about the worst attitude of anyone on the forum and it isn't cute. Try to do some critical thinking and make an intelligent response or maybe just say nothing at all if you can't manage, otherwise people might question your abilities to discern what TPWD ought be doing better.

With Fork being the top producer of SAL fish I know it has hurt us here and I am pretty sure just about every guide that wants Fork to be a Great Lake would most likely agree.

Pulling out genetics is not good for anything.

Does the program help stock other lakes in TX...YES so it does help TX in general but it has not turned then into lakes that produces any SAL fish.Does it help Trophy Lakes NO IMO. If you take some or any of your best breeders out of a system that nature provides there is no way it is good.

I have managed deer/fish and I want my best breeders in both systems. What they do is not correct IMO and from what I have seen and I have discussed this with them and the answers are not there.

Pure Florida fish made Fork Famous not SAL fish !!!! Go back to what got you here and spend the money buying the real deal and lets break the record. Again if the program was so good why is Toyota not sponsoring one in Japan where they even have bigger bass than we do.

If you take into ever situation what that fish has to go through before it reaches Athens then the tank chances of survival are slim in all cases. Then asking the fish to spawn in a un-natural enviroment is extreme crazy. I know of one fish that was there 18 months did not spawn had two seasons of eggs never dropped a egg.

Chances are in the lake she came from she would have. Main thing is I have said this many things if a man touches it he will screw it up. Quit playing GOD and let him do the work. If Toyota pulls out I bet TP&W dont put the program back into place.IMO

There are lakes in TX that have nothing to do with the SAL and they produce giants with no slot,or interference from man. If fact these other lakes have bigger records that TP&W own private Lake X which is suppose to be off the chart good.

One last time IMO I do not like the program I do not think it works for Trophy Lakes, and I will go to my grave thinking this same thing unless they can prove it which will never happen. IMO

Why take the chance of losing a fish that took 10 plus years to get that size to kill it in a day/week. Just let nature runs its course she knows what to do.

I didn't say they did. I'm all for the SAL program because its still a choice for the person that catches the fish. If they don't want to take their LEGAL fish and turn it in, then don't. If they do want to for whatever damn reason they want, then that's ok too.

Also, I can see why some guides don't like the idea of a fish being taken out of "their" lake, but again, its just a choice regarding a FISH. There are many many more in the lake(s) and yes I know 13+ pound fish caught are somewhat rare, but taking even 3-5 of those fish out of Fork a year, assuming they all die and none are returned, still would do nothing to that lake statistically. There would be the same number of bass at specific size ranges.

3 of this years 5 SAL have been brought in with broken jaws.. As per there Facebook page 2 have died and other one released back in Rayburn

It was just a general point to all. And Chris, you bring up a very good point, that it is a choice for the angler to give it to the program.

I know the guy who caught the 15 at RR it did not have a broken jaw is what he told me. They handled it with extreme care. Other thing is do not believe what you might here from TP&W cause they have to look good in the public eyes or no one would trust them.IMO Odds of 3 with broken jaws I question that myself if that is what they are saying. I see fish all over the country with broken jaws fins,lures in them and they are all still swimming and are in good health.

If "it's just a fish", then why is there a special program for those "just fish"?

Don't muddy up the TPWD bashing thread with confusing facts. Those fish would've been perfectly fine had they been released, like any fish caught and released or caught and taken home. TPWD clearly only ruins fisheries and does us Texas fishermen a great disservice by offering the SAL program and we should all grab our torches and pitchforks.


It's a legally taken fish, the angler could just as easily eat it, or take it home to show off then have it mounted. I think as a whole, the program offers an avenue for those fish to safely be returned to their home lake after receiving excellent care to return hem in optimal condition, and a lot of those fish caught are handled so poorly and excessively because of the nature of them being rare goliath trophy fish, would otherwise end up belly up in the lake even if they were returned that day. I think far and few between are the people who would land it carefully, and set it immediately loose. For your average sport fisherman, I truly believe the program saves more fish than it sacrifices to research, even IF the program had ZERO positive results as far as Operation World Record is concerned. I think when you sit and really consider your average guy losing his mind over a 13+lb bass and the chances of the fish dying, it doesn't matter if they spawn in captivity or not, more of them probably make it to the lake alive to spawn in the future than not. That is all there is to it for me as a native Texas angler.

its like we are discussing politics or religion. No one is absolutely right or it would be an easy solution.

GREAT question! It's not just in a fish in that is has superior genetics to have grown that big so its special in that regard - therefore great for trying to spawn at SAL. Otherwise, it's just another fish because her genetics are already imprinted all over the lake she came from. Again, SAL is a choice for the angler who catches it....period end of story. This constant debate about the life of a few select fish (again assumes they die at SAL, which most don't) is just getting old.

Can someone please post a pic of a fish stating that is was their first double digit but that you didn't have a scale so the bashers can move onto a new topic?!?!?!

Stock pure Florida strain bass and grow hydrilla in our lakes instead of killing it. You won't find me donating a SAL unless it's a lake reccord

SLA deads caused by BROKEN JAWS

they put it on facebook:

Three of this year�s five ShareLunkers have come in with broken jaws.
Two have died. The other has been returned to the lake.
The only explanation we have for the broken jaws is fish being held vertically by the lower jaw.
Broken jaws can kill fish in two ways. An infection can start at the break and invade other organs. Or, the fish may not be able to feed and will starve.
To prevent broken jaws, big fish should always be supported with two wet hands, one gripping the lower jaw and the other under the tail. We recommend that any fish weighing 7 pounds or more be handled with two hands.
Fish should be landed with a net and not lipped.
The lower jaw should never be rolled under so the fish can be held up for pictures.
Fish should be handled as little as possible (no multiple picture-taking sessions) and kept in a well-aerated live well until placed in a minnow tank or picked up by TPWD. Pictures of the angler with the fish can be taken at that time.
Proper fish handling has been addressed on the ShareLunker web site for years. See http://tpwd.texas.gov/�/visitorcen�/tffc/sharelunker/handle/.