After hearing the stipulations the SAL folks have put on the "experiment" I have to change my position. I like others felt that the lake would be fished and fished for a fee. The fact that they agreed to this "no fishing" commercial or other quite frankly surprises me. Not believing that anything learned will be transferable to a major lake still makes me wonder about the use the state can put this to but hopefully some genetic ground can be broken. Will a 20lb. fish be grown, I doubt it and wonder if a fish from an experiment like this would be counted as a record anyway. Again hope some good data is gathered in the next 15 years.

I have a moon rock I bought at the mall in the 70's.

Not tryin to be tooo picky, but "Harrel" (not "Harold") Arms was a very long time very good friend, mentor and customer of mine. I and many others miss him dearly. Along with a few others no longer with us, he was a true pioneer in the field of sport fisheries on private waters.

A great man in many ways......especially to those that knew him.

Now THIS is one of the funniest things I've seen on here in a long time!

They do. And.....yall are all saying and especially asking, the wrong things......You need help.

See if you can find out this about SAL....."How many genetically marked specimens that are offspring of SAL fish have been recovered from the places where they were stocked?"

Once you got that answer, "How many of these genetically marked fingerlings stocked into this cleanly prepared lake will be recovered?"

Now I'm not gonna say nuthin' bad about TP&WD, SAL, La Perla Ranch, Camelot Bell or anything else. My friends and cohorts work at and for these places. I will, however, help see that the proper questions get asked and hopefully researched. I can give the answers, but finding them on your own gives them a lot more meaning.

Nobody has more trouble with government impropriety than I do. Although rife in TP&WD for the 30+ years I've worked as a biologist, I don't see it in this project.

Folks that have a problem with the state using publicly funded resources for private profit can certainly find a lot more egregious cases than this non-issue. If you need help figuring where to start, I can do that as well....

GOOD QUESTION!!!!

There is an answer, not sure if it has ever been made public.

"stress during transport"......

I had transported by Arkansas fish hauler truck, 250,000 1-2 inch bass fingerlings to Phoenix, AZ a few years back with almost 100% in good condition, not just "survival." You catch a bass around Phoenix, it came from Texas.

Bass fingerlings are shipped by air cargo almost daily, if they were going to stress and die, they would not be shipped. Not an issue with modern equipment and techniques.

What a true statement. For example right here in our county we have a rancher whose daughter is married to a US Congressman. Five years ago they built a 100 acre "flood control" lake on his place, with yours and mine tax dollars. Trust me flood control lakes and Shackleford County are oxymorons. The lake is still dry.
So don't sweat a few fish, la Perla built their own lakes, and spent their own money on this stuff. If anyone thinks Gary is the only guy that has ever gotten free fish from TPWD they are way wrong. At least he has a goal for these fish and is will to work with the state. If he can get results for raising big bass like he has big deer it will be good for the state. This deal makes sense in the fact that TPWD can't raise a 20 pounder in a tank and can't possibly raise one in an uncontrolled large lake. Finding a good steward that has a lake big enough is key to any chance for success. Gary is the right person, he not only has built a perfect test lake but is willing to foot the bill for the state. It doesn't matter what he does with it after his agreement period but I'll bet he continues to work with them.
Just go to a TPWD meeting and listen to a commissioner( I.e., rich guy with a ranch and a buddy that is governor) and you will see.

Hey Horseplay thanks. I too feel very bad for the angler that caught the fish that contributed to the fry I am caring for, because I feel he is now a part of me. It breaks my heart that he is disenchanted enough that he wants to send the mount back, but I do know this...

1.There is nothing "smelly" about what happened between me and TPWD.

2. Allen Forshage is one of the most dedicated, by the book men I have ever met. I mean, think about this: I called him immediately on December 2013 when we shocked up the fish James Hall from Bassmasters named Pearl, a 13:15 fish only 7 yrs old. I wanted to donate her to SAL. She would have been bigger and younger than all of the SAL fish that were eventually donated for 2014 at the program, and bigger than the fish that eventually sent a small percent of her offspring to Jalisco. I would have been entitled to way more than 7000 of Pearl's fry back to my lakes, TPWD would have had no contract tie in to my new and best lake for 15 years. Also, 50% of her fry would have gone on to other public or private waters somewhere in the state to benefit you bass fishermen out there. Heck, at the time, there weren't even any lunkers that had been donated yet. It seemed like a slam
dunk deal, but for one problem...Allan's commitment to following the rules.

Allen asked us one question: was she legally caught by a rod and reel fisherman, because that is the way the rules are written. Allen refused to break them, even though I legally owned the fish myself and had the authority to remove her from my water any way I wanted to and send her wherever I desired.

I don't denigrate the sacrifice and contribution of any SAL Donor, but simply want to point out that the commitment of Allen Forshage to follow the rules is really steadfast. None of us could believe it, but were all very impressed, especially James Hall from Bassmasters, who heard the whole conversation take place right there in the shocker boat with Pearl in the big live well.

As Pearl slipped back into the green waters of La Perla, I thought about how often rules are written that aren't complete enough, and have unintended consequences such as happened here. Obviously, shocking can't be allowed on a public body of water, hence the rule. I guess at the time, the rule writers could not imagine some guy with his own private lake and giant fish might want to donate it, and that the quickest and least traumatic way to do it would be to shock her up!

Oh well, what might have been, but for the rules!

Horseplay, the very scenario you dream about describes what is happening at Jalisco, where there are no Northern genetics to dilute the Pure Florida gene we introduced. As the fish grow and multiply in the nutrient rich South Texas waters, one day a big rain will come, fill it up, and overflow. The waters of Jalisco flow out for 3-5 days when that happens, eventually making their way on down to Arroyo Salada, and then the waters dump in to the Rio Grande, only a few miles away. The wood storks come in droves, picking at the fingerling fish fry that always go out as the waters escape. It is natures way.

The next time that happens, the fish escaping won't be just Bluegill, shad, and fathead minnows, but pure Floridas from SAL, and the storks don't get them all. Just down river lies Falcon. And so, in this way, as the years go by, over and over again, super genetics from this project will continue to supplement Falcon. Later, as the Jalisco population grows and enlarges, some of the fish will be removed and taken to benefit another fishery. It might be a giant that goes to SAL, or it might be a bunch of young two pounders that need thinning out. My agreement does not cover every possible detail, only who is in charge for how long. Anything else would require too many lawyers and pages. At some point in most relationships, it is not about the contract, but about trust.

I don't know where, when, by what method, or how many fish will be taken from my private waters to go somewhere else, but I do trust the man who will be making that decision, and I know that it will be fair to me, and good for Texas, as long as Allan Forshage is there, or someone just like him.

Fkirk, if you are the guy who caught the fish, please hold off until you learn more and see what you have become a part of. I invite you to contact me, and to come see it for yourself. Please do that first before you make your final decision. What you did was an awesome thing. That contribution has not been tarnished, and I think you will agree in time.
Gary

Betcha dollars to donuts there is more to that "must be caught by hook and line" rule than just an arbitrary rule......

There is HUGE evidence based in solid research on many species, including specifically LMB that "catchability" (or lack thereof) is an inherited trait. I could go deeply into this a it has been an area of research of mine for over 30 years. Suffice it to say that catchability (by any gear) can be bred into or out of a strain of fish, and has been.

Start selecting for fish that were not caught by H&L and you may, likely will, decrease catchability. A lake full of 16 pounders does no good if they are impossible to catch except by shocker....and yes, they can be both bred and/or trained to resist being caught that way as well. Once you try all the other methods of catching fish besides H&L, seine net, gill net, trammel net, fyke net, wing net, hoop net, fish shocker, slat trap, jar trap, cloverleaf trap, etc. you will find that "its still fishing."

Words of a true gentleman and pioneer!

Oh and I got a soft spot in my heart for oral surgeons....It was one of those, after a dentist, endodontist, family doctor, among others failed to make a diagnosis for my problem. The oral surgeon nailed it from the get go.....he couldn't help otherwise, but just knowing what was wrong was a big first step. It was "trigeminal neuralgia" try looking that one up if you need some horrifying. Oh the neurosurgeon cured me in 2001, but that could not have happened without the oral surgeon pointing me in the correct direction.

Boy, The TFF is loaded with negative and miserable people. Why so much hate?

Narrow minds, unable to think outside the box for themselves, just my guess?

Gary, PM sent. You'll find it behind that flashing envelope at the top of the page.