I'm learning the double haul and think my timing might be off. I think I'm hauling at the same time I start each cast. Are you supposed to "haul" after the rod starts moving on the back cast, then "haul" again after the rod moves forward on the forward cast?

Your timing must be done to increase the loading of the rod on either end of the cast. also you will find it not so useful to double haul a light fly rod designed for tight short casting. If your timing is truly off then it will show when you try to get more distance out of your cast. I use water tension to help load the rod when beginning the cast to throw more line behind me then really haul hard on the forecast. If I start with enough line out on the start of the cast I seldom need to false cast even once. A longer rod also helps generate the line speed to get this type of casting right. As with all fly casting "slack" is the enemy and the most common starting point of failure.. I'm entirely self-taught and was double hauling before I even knew what it was called.

The rod has to move first. The later you haul, the more power you'll get out of it. When you are learning, I suggest starting the haul at the halfway point between where the rod starts moving and the rod stop.

Remember that the haul is a down/up motion. It is NOT down... pause... up... There should be no pause, down/up is basically one motion.

Basically the motion is: Start the rod moving, then Down/Stop (the rod)/Up. The down/stop/up timing is critical.

Good luck (the haul is easier to do than it is to explain).

This is the only acceptable answer to this question.

Best basic answer to the question that I have seen. Thanks LSC

Dont know why but I just had Ol Al on my mind!

now he could haul some line! He used to get a rolled up magazine, run the line through it, and haul fifty feet of line like it was nothing.

Mel Krieger, Allen Crise, and a few other Master Casting Instructors I've known were cut from the same cloth. They were exceptionally good teachers because they kept things simple and fun. That's a great short video on the double-haul, by the way.

RRhyne,

Do you know why he used the rolled up magazine, newspaper, or brown paper towels (like from a restroom dispenser)? That paper is abrasive like an extremely fine grit sandpaper, but does not deposit debris on your fly line. These guys were "old school," in that they were big proponents of keeping all fly lines well dressed with quality line lube. The paper acts like a buffer on a well-waxed floor. It burnishes the "wax" (dry coating of line dressing) and cleans any micro-particles of dirt, debris, oil, etc. off. That's how you get a super-slick fly line. Back in the day, that was the ONLY way to get a slick enough fly line to cast well. The coatings are much better now, but still need maintenance (especially as lines age). There is still NO substitute for a well-dressed fly line, cleaned, and polished with newsprint paper (ink free, if possible). The line will shoot like mad, float higher, mend easier, etc. But it can be a bit tough to hold on to with wet fingers!

I used to keep my best mags under my mattress for safekeeping. Please don't get the wrong idea, I only "HAULED" them out to condition my lines. Glad we got that straight. JP

Ken, you may not have ever seen him do it, but Al had a casting demo where he would use a rolled up magazine instead of a rod. He didn't use the magazine to dress the line, he used it to cast the line.

He would walk out in front of a crowd with just a reel in his hand. Then he'd pull a magazine out of his back pocket and start casting. He had a story that went along with the demo and if I remember correctly it involved poachers, game wardens, and hiding the evidence.

It was an entertaining casting demo.

I see. No, in all the seminars and stuff I did with Al, I never saw him do that. However, I know he always carried brown paper towel or a newspaper in his pocket for cleaning fly lines, because he is 1 of 2 MCI's I've worked with over the years who always buffed fly lines that way. It was so effective that I picked up the habit myself.

I have seen other people use a variety of things like this instead of a rod, and a few who used nothing but the fly line: Lefty, Joan, and John Wilson. The thing that Al always did in demos that I was very impressed with and hounded him to teach me was the control he had over his pile casts. He could tell you the number and size of curves he'd put in the line, how far between tip of rod and leader they would begin and end, etc. and then do it...with almost any conceivable variation you threw at him. I challenged him on this repeatedly over the last few years of his life. To me, that was some amazing line control! I know he had some sort of mental "technique" he used to plan and execute those casts due to the complexity and precision with which he could do this, but he never told me what it was. He'd just laugh and laugh and keep on doing it no matter how much I begged him to clue me in. It's certainly improved my pile casts trying to figure it out, but I can't even begin to come close to what he could pull off.

I only got to spend a bit of time with Mel Krieger before he was gone, but I spent quite a bit of time with Al and sometimes made special trips across the country to spend a day or two with him. But we were always doing adaptive casting stuff. In that venue, you really don't find a lot of the "gee whiz" demo stuff very useful. So you're right, Rex, I never saw him do that. I thought "run the line through a magazine" was a description of a quick touch up to the fly line, and it amazes me how many good casters and avid anglers have somehow missed out on this pearl of wisdom. Only a few of the "old guard" seem to do it, much less pass it along.

Those of y'all who were fortunate enough to be in the DFW area while Al was alive were truly blessed to find frequent access to such an awesome fly angler, teacher, and human being as Al. He scheduled a day of training with me in the middle of summer at his house that turned out to be the day he had his upper and lower GI that confirmed the severity of his diagnosis. I had no idea, but he called the day before and asked me to move from morning to the afternoon so he could go have an upper and lower GI that morning. He didn't tell me what was up until I got to his house. He then proceeded to spend 6 hours straight with me in the casting yard in 100+ degree afternoon heat. I don't know if any of y'all have ever had GI tests, but that was a 4 hour ordeal that saps the life out of you and makes you nauseous. It wasn't much longer until he was gone...couple of months or so. He told me a few days later just how bad the cancer was. They don't mass produce guys like Al, and what he did for me that day haunts me.

Anyway...double haul! Just remember: it's only real purpose is to remove even more slack from the line while the rod is under load, which also has the effect of increasing the rod load a bit. So you want to make your hauls smooth and while the rod is bent. That means you do them between the stops and starts (during the stroke). And here's one other little hint: the speed applied to the hauls needs to not exceed your rod speed during the stroke. Making hauls that are quicker than the rod speed will result in deformation of the loop because it will make your rod tip "bounce" instead of smoothly deepening the load on the rod. This is particularly an issue when casters yank really hard and quick on the second haul of the presentation cast. Don't do that.

Even more off topic but then came Long Hair with his 90ft line cast with his bare hands ( no rod ). Then Barry with that virtical? and Gene with that 360 wrap around??

So fantastic that most folks refuse to believe it to be truth.

Proves that it's mostly technique. Funny how much obsession there is with the perfect rod and perfect line (matching of course).

Word. It's easy to get caught up in sexy gear....
A really smart dude that owns a rod company told me after I had been bragging about how good there product was and how good I was casting with it..."Zach, it's not the arrow, it's the archer" stuck with me.
Side note- I still like sexy gear.