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Re: Co-angler frustration when paired with sight fisherman
[Re: Lake Fork Guide Zach Hughes]
#9853838
03/25/14 07:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,015
CUTriton
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,015 |
This comes up all the time..... I heard of a co that was not going to sign a boaters weigh slip because he felt like he was back ended.....
My theory has always and will be, if you want to make the rules pay the higher entry and run the show. When I'm paying the higher entry and my name is on the line if sight fishing is what's going on, that's a what Im gonna be doing!
Every Co has a chance to enter as a boater! In my day as a co...with this philosophy I'd have the boater dialed up inside of 10 minutes off plane and would've had him believing that I had 3 beds behind the back of the boat while he was plunking one from the front...worth the entry fee just to watch the stress the imaginary beds caused... And with the philosophy of imagiary beds you would probably be going home consistantly broke. I'll be the first to say most of the time a lot of bigger fish come from the co's while throwing just off the first break, but a Co flipping a bed off the back of the boat while I'm working one is not gonna mess with the mind, it would be my fault for not locating it prior and I would hope he could catch it for his bag. I usually know the 5 fish I'm going after the day of the tournament before the boat ever leaves the ramp. I take that back...would've been at the pairing meeting and I can see why you would think that I left consistently broke...with the experiences I had over the years I had entries budgeted for spawn events and only attended for points...they were all a write offs at the end of the year.
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Re: Co-angler frustration when paired with sight fisherman
[Re: JC Skeeter]
#9853842
03/25/14 07:50 PM
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,665
scott01
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 12,665 |
On multi day tournaments, how does it work being a co-angler? Meaning, are you paired with the boater for the entire event? If the co doesn't do well on day one or day two, does he still advance to day 3 if his boater is in the top 10?
To help answer the OP's question. There are just some things that are against you as a co, part of signing up that way. However, if you are fishing with a boater in the top 10, and you are as well, on the final day then you are doing something right. If he is on fish and sight fishing, chances are there are fish in the area other than that bed, just hit everything you can around the area and catch whatever you can. I'm not sure if all pro-am events are this way, but back when BASS had co-anglers, you fished with a different pro each day. If you had enough weight to make the final cut, you were then paired with one of the remaining pros who also made the cut on their side. You might get fortunate and fish with a pro who is "on 'em" the first day, whack a good sack of fish, then get paired with someone who is strugging and not even wigh a fish on day 2. Happened to me on T-bend many years ago. I was sitting in 15th after day 1 and only a couplepounds out of 1st on the co-angler side, days 2 I only managed 2 fish and fell to 25th overall. The pro I was paired with on day 2 just wasn't on any real fish and struggled both days. When it's all said and done, it's not about the amateur (back seat) angler. The pro will fish where he wants and how he wants. As the back seat angler, you just have to go with the flow and fish the best way you can given the circumstances. Thinking outside the box and not just trying to mimmick what the pro is doing usually pays dividends because you might be giving the fish something different which might trigger strikes for you.
Last edited by scott01; 03/25/14 07:53 PM.
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Re: Co-angler frustration when paired with sight fisherman
[Re: Johnm69]
#9853868
03/25/14 08:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 62
chrismc
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 62 |
Let me relay my story. I'm not a sight fisherman. I have fished 142 events as a pro in FLW tournaments and can think of two tournaments were I sight fished. I don't like it so I avoid it. By noon on day one of Toledo I couldn't avoid it. I finished my day with two bed fish and was in 29th......they paid 30. By 11 on day two I had to go back to that same canal to finish my limit. This little canal held a bunch and I found a three and a five that i thought I could catch. After spending 19 whole minutes on the five pounder that would have gotten me paid, my co says I wish you would hurry up because I'M in 5th place and this S@#t IS DOING ME NO GOOD SO i JUST MAY NOT SIGN YOUR WEIGH SLIP!He had the whole back end of the canal to fish, he caught two while I was trying to catch this fish granted they were short but he had plenty to fish. Now I was the points leader going into this event and really needed to catch both these fish. Long story short the bickering and the bit#$ING by him finally spun me out and I let him get in my head. NOW that I have had a full understanding of the sight fishing rules, as I had a long talk with Ron Lappin after weigh-in, this will never happen to me again. It's not always the boaters that are jerks. I know $500.00 maybe alot to pay as a co, but $1500.00 is alot to pay for you to have the right to fish out of the front and make the decisions. At Rayburn and Toledo there are fish everywhere around you when your on bed fish. Wacky worms and Flukes can clean up. I was just disappointed that the one time I really needed to do I couldn't do it without being berated by my co...........
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Re: Co-angler frustration when paired with sight fisherman
[Re: YankHardReelFast]
#9853878
03/25/14 08:04 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,582
ChampionDon (SkeeterDon)
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,582 |
Kudos to Clark Reehm for not front ending his coangler all day. When his coangler weighed in, he stated that when Clark got his limit that he said that he'd allow him to get his limit then. That's pretty classy in my book. It sure might have cost Clark first place, but I guarantee you he'll do it all again if the opportunity arises.
And guess what....Clark's coangler is who won the deal. Clark is good people. But he had the misfortune of having two dead fish and per rule 16: 16. Live fish Every effort must be made to keep bass alive through the use of a properly aerated livewell. Four ounces will be deducted from the total weight for each dead bass presented for weigh-in Clark lost by 7 oz and the penalty was 8 oz. The way I understand it he forgot to turn on his livewells. Dang that is a $20,2014 mistake. I am sure he was sick later, I know I would have been.
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Re: Co-angler frustration when paired with sight fisherman
[Re: chrismc]
#9853923
03/25/14 08:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,123
JC Skeeter
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,123 |
Let me relay my story. I'm not a sight fisherman. I have fished 142 events as a pro in FLW tournaments and can think of two tournaments were I sight fished. I don't like it so I avoid it. By noon on day one of Toledo I couldn't avoid it. I finished my day with two bed fish and was in 29th......they paid 30. By 11 on day two I had to go back to that same canal to finish my limit. This little canal held a bunch and I found a three and a five that i thought I could catch. After spending 19 whole minutes on the five pounder that would have gotten me paid, my co says I wish you would hurry up because I'M in 5th place and this S@#t IS DOING ME NO GOOD SO i JUST MAY NOT SIGN YOUR WEIGH SLIP!He had the whole back end of the canal to fish, he caught two while I was trying to catch this fish granted they were short but he had plenty to fish. Now I was the points leader going into this event and really needed to catch both these fish. Long story short the bickering and the bit#$ING by him finally spun me out and I let him get in my head. NOW that I have had a full understanding of the sight fishing rules, as I had a long talk with Ron Lappin after weigh-in, this will never happen to me again. It's not always the boaters that are jerks. I know $500.00 maybe alot to pay as a co, but $1500.00 is alot to pay for you to have the right to fish out of the front and make the decisions. At Rayburn and Toledo there are fish everywhere around you when your on bed fish. Wacky worms and Flukes can clean up. I was just disappointed that the one time I really needed to do I couldn't do it without being berated by my co........... I can definitely understand where you are coming from and how you felt. Hope you have had luck since then. Just a quick question, as you are the 2nd one to mention fishing a fluke. What is your suggestion on how to fish them? With a small weight and texas rigged? Or weightless? And I assume something along the lines of a 5" zoom superfluke?
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Re: Co-angler frustration when paired with sight fisherman
[Re: Johnm69]
#9853941
03/25/14 08:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 62
chrismc
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 62 |
Yea just a regular fluke weightless or on a swivel with about a 12 inch leader.
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Re: Co-angler frustration when paired with sight fisherman
[Re: chrismc]
#9853981
03/25/14 08:52 PM
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,015
CUTriton
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,015 |
Let me relay my story. I'm not a sight fisherman. I have fished 142 events as a pro in FLW tournaments and can think of two tournaments were I sight fished. I don't like it so I avoid it. By noon on day one of Toledo I couldn't avoid it. I finished my day with two bed fish and was in 29th......they paid 30. By 11 on day two I had to go back to that same canal to finish my limit. This little canal held a bunch and I found a three and a five that i thought I could catch. After spending 19 whole minutes on the five pounder that would have gotten me paid, my co says I wish you would hurry up because I'M in 5th place and this S@#t IS DOING ME NO GOOD SO i JUST MAY NOT SIGN YOUR WEIGH SLIP!He had the whole back end of the canal to fish, he caught two while I was trying to catch this fish granted they were short but he had plenty to fish. Now I was the points leader going into this event and really needed to catch both these fish. Long story short the bickering and the bit#$ING by him finally spun me out and I let him get in my head. NOW that I have had a full understanding of the sight fishing rules, as I had a long talk with Ron Lappin after weigh-in, this will never happen to me again. It's not always the boaters that are jerks. I know $500.00 maybe alot to pay as a co, but $1500.00 is alot to pay for you to have the right to fish out of the front and make the decisions. At Rayburn and Toledo there are fish everywhere around you when your on bed fish. Wacky worms and Flukes can clean up. I was just disappointed that the one time I really needed to do I couldn't do it without being berated by my co........... ^^by my previous posts I'm probably that guy by your view....understandably with that kind of experience & I know there's a percentage of cos that don't get it..shame it had to happen that way. Toledo & Rayburn are two very good bed fishing lakes from a co position..plenty of fish to go around for sure. My point is this...as a co I paid as well and knew I was competing against cos and in some circuits I also knew that some of my entry fee went to supplement the pros pay outs so naturally I took exception to some of the tom foolery I was exposed to. I had one pro pay me my entry back at the end of the day...he told me I was cheaper and better than the shrink he was going to.
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Re: Co-angler frustration when paired with sight fisherman
[Re: CUTriton]
#9853997
03/25/14 08:57 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 662
furim2
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 662 |
You guys that think being powerpoled down for hours in two foot of water gives you such a great chance, just don't get it. Without Co's there would be no Rayovac.
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Re: Co-angler frustration when paired with sight fisherman
[Re: chrismc]
#9854008
03/25/14 09:01 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,123
JC Skeeter
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 1,123 |
Yea just a regular fluke weightless or on a swivel with about a 12 inch leader. Thanks Chris, any particular color you find works best overall? Certain situations? Haven't really fished with them much, so just trying to figure out new baits and techniques.
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Re: Co-angler frustration when paired with sight fisherman
[Re: RBO]
#9854048
03/25/14 09:18 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,170
snickers
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 4,170 |
Bingo good attitude and patient works. way more fish behind the boat than on the one bed I am fishing . And My day 1 co was in first place on day two and my day two co zeroed on day 1 and caught 13 something on day 2 behind me . I Bed fished both days and both co anglers did well This comes up all the time..... I heard of a co that was not going to sign a boaters weigh slip because he felt like he was back ended.....
My theory has always and will be, if you want to make the rules pay the higher entry and run the show. When I'm paying the higher entry and my name is on the line if sight fishing is what's going on, that's a what Im gonna be doing!
Every Co has a chance to enter as a boater! +2 Bill Rogers from Jasper made a chunk of money fishing behind his pros while they were locked down on bed fish. Outfished them many times. He asked one pro what to bring to bring to fish with the night before an FLW. The pro told him " I'm sight fishing, bring a good book". BIll handed him his azz fishing a fluke from the back deck. Keep a good attitude and be patient. That's the key.
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Re: Co-angler frustration when paired with sight fisherman
[Re: furim2]
#9854054
03/25/14 09:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,242
Lake Fork Guide Zach Hughes
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,242 |
You guys that think being powerpoled down for hours in two foot of water gives you such a great chance, just don't get it. Without Co's there would be no Rayovac. Ha...... Never heard anyone say they didn't want Co's bro!
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Re: Co-angler frustration when paired with sight fisherman
[Re: furim2]
#9854072
03/25/14 09:29 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,228
YankHardReelFast
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,228 |
You guys that think being powerpoled down for hours in two foot of water gives you such a great chance, just don't get it. Without Co's there would be no Rayovac. And guess what....without pros, there would be no Rayovac.
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Re: Co-angler frustration when paired with sight fisherman
[Re: RBO]
#9854103
03/25/14 09:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,677
TBassYates
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,677 |
This comes up all the time..... I heard of a co that was not going to sign a boaters weigh slip because he felt like he was back ended.....
My theory has always and will be, if you want to make the rules pay the higher entry and run the show. When I'm paying the higher entry and my name is on the line if sight fishing is what's going on, that's a what Im gonna be doing!
Every Co has a chance to enter as a boater! +2 Bill Rogers from Jasper made a chunk of money fishing behind his pros while they were locked down on bed fish. Outfished them many times. He asked one pro what to bring to bring to fish with the night before an FLW. The pro told him " I'm sight fishing, bring a good book". BIll handed him his azz fishing a fluke from the back deck. Keep a good attitude and be patient. That's the key. One of my best fishing days ever was as a co-angler on Sam Rayburn. While my pro was fishing for bed fish I took that fluke and milked the area behind and around and caught fish after fish as it would swim down in area's where fish were that you couldn't see. Had a blast.
Last edited by TBassYates; 03/25/14 09:49 PM.
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Re: Co-angler frustration when paired with sight fisherman
[Re: Johnm69]
#9854106
03/25/14 09:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,880
swalker9513
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,880 |
I've never fished any of this big tourneys. I would find it difficult to justify spending $500 to fish. But that's just me. Are there rules that say the pro can't "front-end" a co all day? Not that it really matters to me though. It seems if the man is fishing for a living, I would cut him some slack. I would really want him to do well (as long as he isn't a jacknut to me). On the other side of the coin, I have fished a few club tourneys as both a boater and a co. Fishing as a co in those circumstances are frustrating, but I really should keep that to myself. It's their boat. As a boater, I really wanted my co to do well. I always felt that was a reflection on my abilities as much as his abilities. I found fish, and I that's half the battle.
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Re: Co-angler frustration when paired with sight fisherman
[Re: furim2]
#9854111
03/25/14 09:53 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 17,696
Chris B
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 17,696 |
You guys that think being powerpoled down for hours in two foot of water gives you such a great chance, just don't get it. Without Co's there would be no Rayovac. So the pro should just quit and not try to win because you don't like the way he is fishing? I fished earlier that week on Toledo and all my good fish came from sight fishing. Its what you do if you want to win this time of year.
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