I think that we are missing one point here and that is that not by a long stretch are all tournament infractions cheating. Probably all of us at one time or another have violated the spirit of some rule or another either by negligence or just not understanding. THAT is NOT cheating. Sure you need to be penalized or told about it but cheating requires an evil heart. I don`t know who it is here that was caught by the "box" but I have read everything posted here and I believe you. Many lawyers will listen to your story for no cost and then advise you about your chances. I`m not a lawyer but I too would be willing to bet that the wording on the entry form would not pass legal muster. I wish you the best of luck.

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THE DOG

I PRACTICE RULES. I PREACH RULES I WILL BE THE FIRST GUY TO BUCKEL MY JACKETT. YOU RUN THROUGH BOUYS BY ME ILL RUN YOU DOWN AND TELL YOU ABOUT IT . MY BOAT BODY AND MIND GO INTO THIS,I WAS STRUCK BY LIGHTNING THIS YEAR ON BOB SANDLIN MABY MY IONS ARE ALL MESSED UP I KNOW MY HEAD IS . GOD BLESS RANDY

I've never fished a tournament. But I have taken a test once before after being accused of stealing some tools from a gas station owner in Austin years ago. He called my folks with the accusation (I was 19 and had used my dads credit card to pay for some repair). My folks called me and I called him that night. Turns out that myself and at least 3 other young fellas were watching the Texas-OU football game on the TV they had in the shop while our cars were getting worked on. One of the 3 was my friend, The others I did not know. Lord knows how many other people came back there after I left, but for some reason the guy blames me - he wasn't even there. I told him to shove it - then he asked me if I would take a poly. I reluctantly said yes with condition being he paid for it and apologised to my parents afterwards if I passed. I passed the stupid thing, but only after repeatedly being told I was lying about my age. Fact is anyone outside of the polygraph industry who has scientifically researched the device will tell you it is VOODOO TECHNOLOGY! It's degree of accuracy based on the same plus and minus range that governs a OUIJA BOARD! So it falls right into the grey area of policy and debate that seems so prevelant these days. People will be heard saying "Sure...it's not a good thing...it's wrong, but I can see why it must be allowed." The idea that "If it's wrong...it's wrong" doesn't seem to work anymore. Exact same thought process that has allowed millions of babies to be aborted in the last 30 years. It's the same attitude that allows affirmative action to give preference for schools and jobs based on the amount of melanin in the skin. I could go on, but you get my drift.
It boils down to this: It's wrong to use them...so stop it.
I will never take one again, it was demeaning and bewildering.
Randy...don't know you, but it looks like as many friends and supporters as you have here, you are blessed with much more than could ever be gained from a tourney. I got down only once in my life...after my wife of 20 years left me and I was taken away from the real joy of my life - my kids. I am so thankful that I had a large group of friends to help me get past it. If not for them...I dunno. But ssince then I make it a point to tell anyone I run into that appears to be in the grips of such depression to please call me if you need to and we'll talk about it. Same applies here if you need to guy. 972-429-8622
It looks to me tho you will stand a head taller than when you started out after this thing is done and over.
Dave

[This message has been edited by Duckcreek Davy (edited 06-12-2003).]

This has been a most interesting thread to read. Tis a damned shame tho it has been at the expense of an individual.

Some of the posts talked of boycotting tourny's that use poly and also they talk about the pro tourny's which dont use poly.

Mr DTCooper has a great system I think and I'm sure with some thought and some volunteers for tourny's the system could be made even better.

Why dont we use the 90k members of the TFF forum to start a huge petition online to show our distaste of the use of such a risky device that seems to do nothing but cause aggrivation to good honest hard working folks


In a perfect world we wouldnt have to even worry about this but I know for FACT there are some very unethical people out there.(haveing been a victum of them myself)

But one thing no matter what happens to me due to unethical folks or a silly test I WILL NEVER LOSE SIGHT OF WHO I AM and I WILL NEVER LOWER MYSELF TO THERE LEVEL in order to seek retribution.

Back in the day when I was younger I would have easilly risen to the job of thrashing the guy who slandered my name. But now I am much more patient and beleive you reap what you sow .

Sorry for rambling but why dont we start a petition right here and now its would be easy for the forum admins to print it out Ill even flip the bill for the ink and paper.


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Travis
"Lets Go Fishing!!"

A few comments.

I believe Polygraphs are a much needed part of tournaments these days. With the amount of prize money in weekend tournaments there is no other way to scare off REAL cheaters, and it also keeps people from breaking rules.

Since we can use this board to express our opinions, Here goes.

1) The warden idea will not work in a big tournament on a big lake. For example, I fish Bass Champs, they had 270 boats on Cedar Creek. How in the world are you going to have enough "WARDENS" to follow 270 boats all day. (IMPOSSIBLE)

Also, Even if you could follow 270 boats, (which we know you couldn't) That only tells you what the anglers did that day while fishing. It doesn't tell you several other things that are important. For example, You wouldn't know if the team got on the water during off-limits period, you wouldn't know if they were under the influence of drugs or alcohol, you wouldn't know if they actually had their life vests fastened, you wouldn't know they had their kill switch attached. etc, etc. etc.

The polygraph is a good thing for tournaments. It keeps people conscious of the rules, because they know if they win they are going to have to take the test.

I called Chad Potts, the owner of Bass Champs, and asked him these questions.

1) How many polygraphs have you given over the years to winners?

His answer was "more than 100 tests."

2) How many times have you had to disqualify a team or person because they failed the test?

His answer was, "One time".

3) I asked him what was the reason they failed?

His answer was, "I really don't know exactly why they failed, because generally polygraphs don't specify exactly what they did wrong, but, it's real obvious when someone has done something wrong, because their charts go nuts." He also said, that he gave the team that failed three chances to pass and they failed it every time.

Then he asked them to take a few minutes and think about what might be bothering them. If they would write it down, maybe then they could get through this test. IF it was simple infraction like a no wake zone, they would still be disqualified but only for that tournament rather than forever. The anglers kept saying, "we did nothing wrong, we never did anything wrong, we followed every rule to a T." Then they took the test again, and guess what, They failed it again. So, Chad had no choice but to disqualify them.

Then, a few days after the tournament, the same team called up and said, "By the way, we did something wrong, we ran through a no-wake zone on pad." Chad said, "why didn't you tell us that at the tournament, so we could have handled it there. (they still would have gotten disqualified, but they wouldn't have been accused of cheating by the other anglers).

Their answer to this question was, "They thought they could get it by the polygraph."

My opinion on this situation, is that Polygraphs are very important, and I don't think they are wrong. How can a circuit like Bass Champs give over 100 tests and have every single one passed except for one, and the one that failed, actually admitted to doing something they shouldn't have done.

I don't know Randy at all, he sounds like a good guy, but, my guess is one day Randy will come out and say that he did something wrong. I'm sure he wasn't blatantly cheating like tying up fish or something, but I bet there is something on his mind.

He keeps referring to these people seeing him catch fish, well that still doesn't tell me if got on the lake during off limits, or drank beer or ran a no wake zone or Whatever.

One solution is when your fishing a team tournament and you have a problem taking polygraphs make sure you have a partner that CAN take the test without being worried.

These are just my opionions, and I know if you actually read this long message, you must be either really bored or you need to go back to work. :-)

See you at Cedar Creek (Hopefully), been traveling a bunch, and haven't been able to fish very much this year.

SOL DAUM

[This message has been edited by solfish1 (edited 06-12-2003).]

Solfish1 I totally understand your points but as has been pointed out before the test all depends on the tester.

Would you like it if i locked you in jail based on a polygraph?? what if the only reason you failed was because of the guy that gave the test?

I work in construction and I have seen many many many 3rd party inspectors that are certified thru the texas realestate comission that wouldnt know a plumbing clean out from there arse.

IF ON A REGULAR all inclusive scale for all tournies poly graphs could be relied upon them by all means bring it on I would never have anything to hide.

But I have beat a poly graph before when I was a teenager wasnt hard to just convince myself I had done nothing wrong.

Now does that make me a horrible person for something I did when I was 16 ?? and now im 33 .

I think not, Ive grown, ive fought in 3 conflicts in the military, and im a loveing and careing husband to my wife.I work damned hard for a liveing and try to be as upstanding as the next guy but yet I have still fallen victum to the dishonesty of unethical folks.

With that said am I against polygraphs NO! am I against your every day run of the mill guy running the test just because he has a piece of paper that says he can ... hell yeah.

I like many other fisherman out there was raised that my word is my bond and to this day I value that over anything else sometimes even to the point of agrivateing my wife.

To have some person strip that from me because he might have miss read a graph is unacceptable.

and as you so pointed out even the "BIG BOYS" have poly tests when something is questioned. hrmmmph ok you have umpteen sponsers and thousands of dollars on the line yeah right you think there gonna jump at the chance to throw out a huge scandal no I think not.

It is the smaller tourny's and the guys that love to fish them that are suffering over this not the flw or bass etc..


Look at the number of posts and the different folks posting here that are against poly tests are you trying to say that those that are against the unregulated use of poly tests are all bitter because deep down we have something to hide???

I know you didnt acuse anyone of anything here but in your post you imply that poly graphs are the law and golden which thus far has been proven not to be the case. so bass champs has been lucky so far they have a good guy running the tests because they can afford him what about the rest that due to takeing joe smoe poly reader a good man might get branded as a cheater.




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Travis
"Lets Go Fishing!!"

THE ONE, I have no doubt you took a screwing, after all, you always hear that nobody screams louder than an innocent man. Nothing, and I mean nothing is more important than a mans word. I have heard that some people just can't pass a poly test and I think you are one of them. I'm sure you are much like myself, people from all over know that I would never do anything to risk my rep as an honest guy. If I were you, and I'm not, I would find a good lawyer and get this matter straightened out as soon as possible. If you don't it will eat you alive, I know it would me. I'm praying a prayer for you tonight that you will have peace in your heart and that you will be vindicated once and for all. If you need any help in this matter feel free to e-mail me and I will do whatever I can! Just don't stroke out on us, stand up and fight.

my friend i wish i would have bent a ruel, i have even called and asked any one who saw me if i bent any rule that thay could see then maby i could be at peace with myself .let me write you a little quote from the washington post.this is from the department of defense polgraph institute, which trains fbi polygraphers, they reveal that screening tests fail time after time.in fact the polygraph determines a person is lying with accuary only slighter greater than chance. moreover studies have repeatedly shown that the polygraph is more likley to find innocent people guilty than vice versa. now wou can find this a www.washingpost.com. this is where or fbi guys are trained and listen to what they say .

5THANK YOU MY FRIEND AND MAY GOD FOREVER BLESS YOU RANDY THE ONE

HERE IS ANOTHER QUOTE FROM THE POST EVEN ATTORNEY GENERAL JOHN ASHCROFT HAS ADMITTED THAT POLYGRAPH TESTS HAVE AT LEAST A 15%FALSE POSITIVE RATE THAT MEANS A SIGNIFICANT PERCENTAGE OF TRUTHFUL INDIVIDUALS WILL BE FALSLEY LABELED WITH MANY LASTING AFTER EFFECTS. THE WEB IS LOADED WITH HORRAR STORIES.

MAY I ALSO ADD THEAR IS MUCH ON WAYS TO BEAT POLYGRAPHS ON THE NET , HOWEVER I CAN NOT BRING MYSELF TO CLICK ON THAT TYPE OF INFO, AND IF YOU DO NOT BELEVE ME I WILL GIVE YOU MY COMPUTOR AND YOU CAN SEARCH HISTORY OR TAKE TO COMP EXPERT , I WOULD NEVER TAKE MYSELF TO THAT LEVEL . CHALLANGE ME. RANDY

ON OCTOBER 8, 2002 THE NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES ISSUED A LANDMARK DECISION REGARDING THE USE OF POLYGRAPHS BY VARIOUS AGENCIES. ALTHOUGH MANY ISSUES WERE EXPLORED AND SEVERAL CONCLUSIONS WERE DRAWN, NONE WAS AS IMPORTANT THAN THE FINDING THAT POLYGRAPH SCREENING IS COMPLETLY INVALID. RESEARCH MY FRIENDS THIS IS NOT A WAY YOU WANT TO GET POUPULAR . TRUST ME . I WOULD RATHER BE THE UNKNOWN GUY OVER BY THE BRUSHPILE WITH A BIG FAT ZERO.BASS KICKING MY [censored] WOULD BE BETTER.

Randy no one here has openly challenged you bud

Most everyone here is posting opinions of poly tests etc... no one here has posted anything against you

please realize that you may be the reason this thread has begun but it has progressed to a level that is greater than any one person.

Your situation albeit horrible is only the spark that has struck the tinder here.thus fueling what apears to be a fire that has burned the backsides of a many a person.

Some may only feel warmth and security from this fire others feel burned by it.

The fact of the matter is however small our part as individuals may be if enough speak out others will follow and GOD willing maybe a compromiseing agreement may come out of all this.

Will it be right for everyone I seriously doubt it there is no perfect solution to a situation like this unfortunatly.

But if enough minds get together maybe a agreeable resolution can come from all this that is easier to swallow.

I feel bad for what you are going thru haveing been wrongfully accused in the past myself but thanks to friends and family I got over it. which is something I think you will do as well.

Its pretty common for folks to go thru 3 emotions in situations like this 1st is usually denial "there is no way this is happening to me" 2nd is anger " who the hell do they think they are accusing ME of this" 3rd is the realization and acceptance that it has happend but it isnt the end of the world and that which does not kill us makes us stronger.

I have faith in the good folks of this forum that the spirit of what we love fishing will live on thru all these trials and tribulations.

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Travis
"Lets Go Fishing!!"

I DID NOT MEAN IT AS I WAS WANTING A CHALLENGE ,LET ME JUST SAY CHECK ME IF YOU LIKE I AM OFFERING. GOD BLESS RANDY

THANK YOU FOR YOUR WORDS TRAVIS AND THE ADVICE, OF THE 3 EFFECTS I CAN SEE THAT, FEEL THAT ,I AM A VERY STRONG PERSON FACING MANY OBSTICLES IN MY LIFE BUT THIS WAS A SILENT BLAST THAT I KNEW NOT EXISTED . I WILL RECOVER WITH THE HELP AND MANY THANKS TO THE PEOPLE AROUND ME . I NEVER KNEW SO MANY PEOPLE CARED ,I LOVE ALL YOU GUYS THAT HAVE GIVEN ME SUPPORT . GOD BLESS EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU . RANDY