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Re: Is the Sharelunker doing more bad then good? [Re: Barrett] #9621073 01/05/14 05:29 PM
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Who is to say what is better for the lake but I do know it is like hunting you have to cull the deer same with the bass . Get rid of SL drop the slot and let the honest fisherman take control of the lake, there are more honest law abiding fisherman than dishonest ones , there are to many good guys on the lake at fork. Let nature take its course and the lake will be better like Sam Rayburn . Just take pictures and weigh the fish and let it go . If you want it mounted you should know how to measure it and weigh it . Texas doesn't pay for your deer mount so SL shouldn't either . If you have a $50,000 boat you can pay for your own mount . To many people are getting wrapped up in getting in the record books they forgot what it is all about , it is having fun and memories with out God we wouldn't be bass fishing that is why I said let nature take its course

Moritz Chevrolet - 9101 Camp Bowie W Blvd, Fort Worth, TX - Monte Coon (817) 696-2003
Re: Is the Sharelunker doing more bad then good? [Re: Ranger 2007] #9621122 01/05/14 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ranger 2007
Who is to say what is better for the lake but I do know it is like hunting you have to cull the deer same with the bass . Get rid of SL drop the slot and let the honest fisherman take control of the lake, there are more honest law abiding fisherman than dishonest ones , there are to many good guys on the lake at fork. Let nature take its course and the lake will be better like Sam Rayburn . Just take pictures and weigh the fish and let it go . If you want it mounted you should know how to measure it and weigh it . Texas doesn't pay for your deer mount so SL shouldn't either . If you have a $50,000 boat you can pay for your own mount . To many people are getting wrapped up in getting in the record books they forgot what it is all about , it is having fun and memories with out God we wouldn't be bass fishing that is why I said let nature take its course


I believe the Share Lunker program is privately funded.

Here is an article on the history of it and who has funded it and who currently funds the program.

Share Lunker History


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#MFGA

Re: Is the Sharelunker doing more bad then good? [Re: JacksonBean] #9624104 01/06/14 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: JacksonBean
Originally Posted By: Rob Belloni
Bass population density is not the factor that determines top end bass size. I don't mean to be insulting, but if you don't get this it's because you haven't seen a diverse enough set of lakes. Some lakes in CA that produced giant bass like San Pablo Dam or Don Pedro have a very low population density. Other lakes like Castaic Lagoon or Poway had an incredible population density.

It's not about how many fish are in the lake, it's about the 4 factors I pointed out in my first post. I think people like to feel justified when they kill stuff. We want to feel like really we are doing the population of fish a favor by eating some of them. If you keep fish (I keep plenty of fish besides bass that taste good to me) just keep them because you like to eat fish. Don't keep them and try to rationalize it like you are helping the fish population.

Try out this thinking as well... All throughout history there are examples where the largest top end fish sizes were achieved in an environment with no harvesting. As soon as people came along and started killing the fish, what happened? The top end size of that fish species was never the same again. Lahontan cutthroat trout in Lake Tahoe, Bluefin tuna near Catalina island, Orangemouth Corvina in she Salton Sea, Black seabass, and so on. None of these fish needed any human intervention to allow the largest ones to get very large.

Share a Lunker is a cool program. It's great to see a state that cares about growing big bass. I just find it strange that the approach doesn't include all the variables that so clearly work in California. The biggest fish in Texas since 1999 is a 16lber. Barni's used to catch 16 to 18lbers in San Pablo dam on powerbait and it barely made the fishing paper.

The smartest thing Texas fishermen could do to get truly big bass is demand catch and release only regs on the lakes that have the right factors in place, and encourage TPWD to introduce large forage fish. Preferably dumb forage fish like trout that are easy for bass to catch.



No offense, but what you are saying flies in the face of what hundreds of years of fisheries biology has accomplished. These variables that you mention that "so clearly work in California" simply aren't possible here. We do not have the climate or topography to compare to the west coast and never will. Overpopulating and depleting a forage base are real problems that exist and large bass simply can't compete with the smaller, more aggressive bass.

Your other post mentioned that superior genetics probably aren't a factor. So you think black bass are different than every other avenue of animal husbandry? Funny how academia hasn't grasped on to that yet.

The biologists that frequent this site likely won't be commenting on this thread because they end up saying the same thing that they have been saying for years which is just reiterating the principles required to grow trophy bass.

These ShareLunker threads are getting to be too common....

Yet here I am commenting.... Again.... bang


Because animal husbandry is different in warm blooded creatures vs. cold blooded. This comparison comes up every time SAL is discussed. The whitetail deer argument comes up. It's apples and oranges.... Environment is much more critical for a cold blooded creature...

Re: Is the Sharelunker doing more bad then good? [Re: Barrett] #9624515 01/06/14 07:35 PM
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James,
I understand there are solid points on both sides of the argument, but not PROOF. For people to say they are right without proof and others are wrong without proof doesnt exactly makes sense.

Once again I am not saying your argument is wrong, but neither is the argument of some of those opposing you.

Have you been to Athens and got a tour of the Lunker Bunker? Have to personally discussed this with the guys/gals down there? Though they may work for a government agency, they are not at all big government imposing on us.

For those that dont like the program, dont buy a Toyota. They are paying for it. Dont bash TPWD for having a program that is more based in research than in getting anyone on here to catch a SAL or State record. TPWD still stocks Florida LMB outside of the SAL program... Just like they have since 1971.



-Curtis

Re: Is the Sharelunker doing more bad then good? [Re: Ranger 2007] #9624527 01/06/14 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ranger 2007
Who is to say what is better for the lake but I do know it is like hunting you have to cull the deer same with the bass . Get rid of SL drop the slot and let the honest fisherman take control of the lake, there are more honest law abiding fisherman than dishonest ones , there are to many good guys on the lake at fork. Let nature take its course and the lake will be better like Sam Rayburn . Just take pictures and weigh the fish and let it go . If you want it mounted you should know how to measure it and weigh it . Texas doesn't pay for your deer mount so SL shouldn't either . If you have a $50,000 boat you can pay for your own mount . To many people are getting wrapped up in getting in the record books they forgot what it is all about , it is having fun and memories with out God we wouldn't be bass fishing that is why I said let nature take its course


Better like Rayburn? What Rayburn have you been fishing the past few years?

Re: Is the Sharelunker doing more bad then good? [Re: Joefishin] #9624567 01/06/14 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted By: Joefishin
Originally Posted By: JacksonBean
Originally Posted By: Rob Belloni
Bass population density is not the factor that determines top end bass size. I don't mean to be insulting, but if you don't get this it's because you haven't seen a diverse enough set of lakes. Some lakes in CA that produced giant bass like San Pablo Dam or Don Pedro have a very low population density. Other lakes like Castaic Lagoon or Poway had an incredible population density.

It's not about how many fish are in the lake, it's about the 4 factors I pointed out in my first post. I think people like to feel justified when they kill stuff. We want to feel like really we are doing the population of fish a favor by eating some of them. If you keep fish (I keep plenty of fish besides bass that taste good to me) just keep them because you like to eat fish. Don't keep them and try to rationalize it like you are helping the fish population.

Try out this thinking as well... All throughout history there are examples where the largest top end fish sizes were achieved in an environment with no harvesting. As soon as people came along and started killing the fish, what happened? The top end size of that fish species was never the same again. Lahontan cutthroat trout in Lake Tahoe, Bluefin tuna near Catalina island, Orangemouth Corvina in she Salton Sea, Black seabass, and so on. None of these fish needed any human intervention to allow the largest ones to get very large.

Share a Lunker is a cool program. It's great to see a state that cares about growing big bass. I just find it strange that the approach doesn't include all the variables that so clearly work in California. The biggest fish in Texas since 1999 is a 16lber. Barni's used to catch 16 to 18lbers in San Pablo dam on powerbait and it barely made the fishing paper.

The smartest thing Texas fishermen could do to get truly big bass is demand catch and release only regs on the lakes that have the right factors in place, and encourage TPWD to introduce large forage fish. Preferably dumb forage fish like trout that are easy for bass to catch.



No offense, but what you are saying flies in the face of what hundreds of years of fisheries biology has accomplished. These variables that you mention that "so clearly work in California" simply aren't possible here. We do not have the climate or topography to compare to the west coast and never will. Overpopulating and depleting a forage base are real problems that exist and large bass simply can't compete with the smaller, more aggressive bass.

Your other post mentioned that superior genetics probably aren't a factor. So you think black bass are different than every other avenue of animal husbandry? Funny how academia hasn't grasped on to that yet.

The biologists that frequent this site likely won't be commenting on this thread because they end up saying the same thing that they have been saying for years which is just reiterating the principles required to grow trophy bass.

These ShareLunker threads are getting to be too common....

Yet here I am commenting.... Again.... bang


Because animal husbandry is different in warm blooded creatures vs. cold blooded. This comparison comes up every time SAL is discussed. The whitetail deer argument comes up. It's apples and oranges.... Environment is much more critical for a cold blooded creature...



Actually Joe, the phenotypic selection process for genetic improvement in aquaculture has striking similarities to that of terrestrial animals. Selective breeding (The ShareLunker Program) offers the chance for permanent genetic gain that will be transmitted from generation to generation. These types of changes in the nucleus of the cell can then be applied at the hatchery level which could one day yield fish of greater size that are a rarity today. Remember that aquaculture is decades behind that of the cattle industry or the whitetail deer you mention. We simply don't know yet what kind latency exists in the application of a model such as this. But.... Why not try? TP&WL is doing something that hasn't been done before and anytime that happens people get uneasy. Will we get measurable gains from the ShareLunker Program? Don't know. Will it be a total failure and Toyota wasted all of that money and TP&WL wasted all of that time? Perhaps. To suggest that we are comparing apples to oranges is incorrect, in my opinion. Environment is huge. I don't think that is being contested. But that's the great thing about this forum..... We don't have to agree.

Tight lines,

Jackson


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Re: Is the Sharelunker doing more bad then good? [Re: JacksonBean] #9624789 01/06/14 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: JacksonBean
Originally Posted By: Joefishin
Originally Posted By: JacksonBean
Originally Posted By: Rob Belloni
Bass population density is not the factor that determines top end bass size. I don't mean to be insulting, but if you don't get this it's because you haven't seen a diverse enough set of lakes. Some lakes in CA that produced giant bass like San Pablo Dam or Don Pedro have a very low population density. Other lakes like Castaic Lagoon or Poway had an incredible population density.

It's not about how many fish are in the lake, it's about the 4 factors I pointed out in my first post. I think people like to feel justified when they kill stuff. We want to feel like really we are doing the population of fish a favor by eating some of them. If you keep fish (I keep plenty of fish besides bass that taste good to me) just keep them because you like to eat fish. Don't keep them and try to rationalize it like you are helping the fish population.

Try out this thinking as well... All throughout history there are examples where the largest top end fish sizes were achieved in an environment with no harvesting. As soon as people came along and started killing the fish, what happened? The top end size of that fish species was never the same again. Lahontan cutthroat trout in Lake Tahoe, Bluefin tuna near Catalina island, Orangemouth Corvina in she Salton Sea, Black seabass, and so on. None of these fish needed any human intervention to allow the largest ones to get very large.

Share a Lunker is a cool program. It's great to see a state that cares about growing big bass. I just find it strange that the approach doesn't include all the variables that so clearly work in California. The biggest fish in Texas since 1999 is a 16lber. Barni's used to catch 16 to 18lbers in San Pablo dam on powerbait and it barely made the fishing paper.

The smartest thing Texas fishermen could do to get truly big bass is demand catch and release only regs on the lakes that have the right factors in place, and encourage TPWD to introduce large forage fish. Preferably dumb forage fish like trout that are easy for bass to catch.



No offense, but what you are saying flies in the face of what hundreds of years of fisheries biology has accomplished. These variables that you mention that "so clearly work in California" simply aren't possible here. We do not have the climate or topography to compare to the west coast and never will. Overpopulating and depleting a forage base are real problems that exist and large bass simply can't compete with the smaller, more aggressive bass.

Your other post mentioned that superior genetics probably aren't a factor. So you think black bass are different than every other avenue of animal husbandry? Funny how academia hasn't grasped on to that yet.

The biologists that frequent this site likely won't be commenting on this thread because they end up saying the same thing that they have been saying for years which is just reiterating the principles required to grow trophy bass.

These ShareLunker threads are getting to be too common....

Yet here I am commenting.... Again.... bang


Because animal husbandry is different in warm blooded creatures vs. cold blooded. This comparison comes up every time SAL is discussed. The whitetail deer argument comes up. It's apples and oranges.... Environment is much more critical for a cold blooded creature...



Actually Joe, the phenotypic selection process for genetic improvement in aquaculture has striking similarities to that of terrestrial animals. Selective breeding (The ShareLunker Program) offers the chance for permanent genetic gain that will be transmitted from generation to generation. These types of changes in the nucleus of the cell can then be applied at the hatchery level which could one day yield fish of greater size that are a rarity today. Remember that aquaculture is decades behind that of the cattle industry or the whitetail deer you mention. We simply don't know yet what kind latency exists in the application of a model such as this. But.... Why not try? TP&WL is doing something that hasn't been done before and anytime that happens people get uneasy. Will we get measurable gains from the ShareLunker Program? Don't know. Will it be a total failure and Toyota wasted all of that money and TP&WL wasted all of that time? Perhaps. To suggest that we are comparing apples to oranges is incorrect, in my opinion. Environment is huge. I don't think that is being contested. But that's the great thing about this forum..... We don't have to agree.

Tight lines,

Jackson



Please don't cloud an entertaining read with logic and reasoning, Jackson.


Scott Jones
Re: Is the Sharelunker doing more bad then good? [Re: Barrett] #9625161 01/06/14 11:35 PM
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Well put Mr Bean.....well put.

fish


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Re: Is the Sharelunker doing more bad then good? [Re: JacksonBean] #9625274 01/07/14 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted By: JacksonBean


Actually Joe, the phenotypic selection process for genetic improvement in aquaculture has striking similarities to that of terrestrial animals. Selective breeding (The ShareLunker Program) offers the chance for permanent genetic gain that will be transmitted from generation to generation. These types of changes in the nucleus of the cell can then be applied at the hatchery level which could one day yield fish of greater size that are a rarity today. Remember that aquaculture is decades behind that of the cattle industry or the whitetail deer you mention. We simply don't know yet what kind latency exists in the application of a model such as this. But.... Why not try? TP&WL is doing something that hasn't been done before and anytime that happens people get uneasy. Will we get measurable gains from the ShareLunker Program? Don't know. Will it be a total failure and Toyota wasted all of that money and TP&WL wasted all of that time? Perhaps. To suggest that we are comparing apples to oranges is incorrect, in my opinion. Environment is huge. I don't think that is being contested. But that's the great thing about this forum..... We don't have to agree.

Tight lines,

Jackson



Environment plays a far greater role with a cold blooded animal. The greatest genetics in the world don't mean a hill of beans if water temps are too hot or too cold for an extended period of time. These things stunt fish, and you cannot control mother nature.

In Texas our bass have shorter life spans then they do in colder climates, they also grow quicker. In theory the fish would have to maintain it's quick growth rate, but live longer. But that's in a vacuum taking out all the other variables like habitat and food supply. At the end of the day, it's habitat and food supply that are going to grow a mammoth bass. If you don't have those......

Now when they start genetically engineering a bass to withstand colder temperatures and hotter temperatures without affecting their growth cycle, then get back to me.

Until then, we can respectfully disagree cheers

Re: Is the Sharelunker doing more bad then good? [Re: Barrett] #9625278 01/07/14 12:19 AM
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As to why not try? I'm not arguing against it. This is a privately (for the most part) funded program that is voluntary. I'm fine with it. I just see so much mis-information every time these threads come up.

One that comes up every time as well. "If you like catching giant bass thank SAL" Giant bass came to Texas with the introduction of Florida Strain, nothing more nothing less.

Re: Is the Sharelunker doing more bad then good? [Re: Barrett] #9625928 01/07/14 03:08 AM
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Better like Rayburn? What Rayburn have you been fishing the past few years?
_________________________
35.26lb Rayburn bag
Sharelunker#426 13.31lbs


http://www.swimbaitnation.com
Where is that sack your holding come from (Sam Rayburn ) you can't do that at fork anymore . And I was PTT tournament in December of this year and unless they drop the slot you can't catch a sack like that and maybe not then . ( nice sack) but I still would rather fish Sam Rayburn than Fork and I am not but 15 min from Fork and I am 3 hrs from Sam Rayburn

Re: Is the Sharelunker doing more bad then good? [Re: Barrett] #9636844 01/11/14 12:00 AM
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I've read every post in this thread.
I'm not a biologist.
250 some odd lunkers have been taken out of this lake, and some of them have been returned after TPWD verified their gene.
Biologists are learning something from this program.
AS far as being detrimental to Lake Fork, I don't see it, as a fish of this age has probably spawned for several years.
Now, on the other hand, there's quite a few fish that are killed simply by being dragged around to weigh-in from the weekly tournaments.
Most of these fish are young, and under 16 inches.
I know four things.
A dead 16 inch fish won't spawn, or get to 13 lbs, and biologist won't learn anything from this dead, 16 inch fish, and that fish will never spawn again
But, again, I'm not an expert, and it seems we have several on this forum so I'll just leave it at that.

Re: Is the Sharelunker doing more bad then good? [Re: Barrett] #9636923 01/11/14 12:26 AM
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Richard I agree totally. I don't claim to know much about anything but the SAL program has definitely raised public awareness about Lake Fork and bass fishing in Texas in general. Tournaments kill more potential lunkers each year than the lunker program has since it inception. Seems like that should be the topic of debate. Just my 2 cents.

Re: Is the Sharelunker doing more bad then good? [Re: Richard McCarty] #9636978 01/11/14 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: Richard McCarty
I've read every post in this thread.
I'm not a biologist.
250 some odd lunkers have been taken out of this lake, and some of them have been returned after TPWD verified their gene.
Biologists are learning something from this program.
AS far as being detrimental to Lake Fork, I don't see it, as a fish of this age has probably spawned for several years.
Now, on the other hand, there's quite a few fish that are killed simply by being dragged around to weigh-in from the weekly tournaments.
Most of these fish are young, and under 16 inches.
I know four things.
A dead 16 inch fish won't spawn, or get to 13 lbs, and biologist won't learn anything from this dead, 16 inch fish, and that fish will never spawn again
But, again, I'm not an expert, and it seems we have several on this forum so I'll just leave it at that.


Well said. Post here more often, we value your input.

Re: Is the Sharelunker doing more bad then good? [Re: Barrett] #9638719 01/11/14 06:44 PM
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In 55 years of bass fishing I've never caught a SAL size fish. If I did, I would weigh it and photograph it, thank God for the experience, thank the bass for the thrill, and release it to its home. As Uncle Homer said near the end of his life, "that's just the way it is now between me and a bass".


In memory of my childhood friend Dan Sterling, who taught me at an early age how to catch bream with a hand-line, and who unknowingly hooked me on fishing for life.
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