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Your rights to fish and paddle on rivers explained concisely #9440100 10/29/13 06:04 PM
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National Rivers Offline OP
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Good afternoon!

I thought this information would be helpful for those who would like to take a second look at access for fishing on rivers. The National Organization for Rivers (NOR) is a nonprofit organization that focuses on educating the public about river law and public rights to access and recreate on rivers. What does NOR seek to do? The main three things are to 1) clarify public river rights on thousands of miles where they are disputed, 2) address public and private land usage along rivers, and 3) to conserve the land along rivers, and keep enough water in rivers to keep them healthy and usable for navigation and fishing. The goal, as the first Act of our US Congress said, is for rivers to be "forever free."

So, what should you check out? NOR is excited to announce the new poster, "Public Rights on Rivers in the United States," available for free downloading and distribution, in print and by e-mail. There is also a handout version. These resources discuss public rights to use and access rivers for fishing, kayaking, canoeing, rafting, duck hunting, and other nondestructive river recreation.

The posters and handouts do not repeat the usual claims of lawyers for riverfront landowners, to the effect that public rights on rivers would have to be decided by state courts or state legislatures. Instead, they cite numerous U.S. Supreme Court decisions and Acts of Congress to show that rivers that people typically use for raft, kayak, or canoe trips are navigable for Commerce Clause purposes under federal law. These rivers are subject to the federal navigational easement, including public rights to scout rapids from shore, portage around rapids, and fish from the gravel bars and banks along these rivers.

Of course, some riverfront landowners, their lawyers, and their supporters in local and state government will disagree with the message in the posters and handouts, but that's the point: To give river users tools to use for dialog with local and state government agencies, in order to reconfirm public rights on rivers in places where they are doubted or denied.

The handouts are ready to print on letter size paper. The posters come in two different versions, one for legal size paper and the other for 11 x 17 paper. The 11 x 17 version can be printed out at office supply stores or photocopy centers.

The handouts and posters can also be e-mailed to the directors of kayak clubs, college outdoor programs, government agencies, and reporters for local newspapers and other media.

Read, download, and print the posters and sizes you'd like by going to this page http://www.nationalrivers.org/river-law-handouts.html

If you would like to read more about the announcement of these new posters and handouts, check our blog http://www.nationalrivers.org/new-posters.html

If you want more than just a brief synopsis about river rights, we have a book to help you understand the whole story. To learn more about the book, here's a link http://www.nationalrivers.org/why-you-should-get-public-rights-on-rivers.html

We look forward to serving this community by further explaining and researching public rights on rivers. If you'd like to contact us, email riverlaw@nationalrivers.org. Thanks for supporting the cause for rivers to be "forever free."

-Team NOR

Re: Your rights to fish and paddle on rivers explained concisely [Re: National Rivers] #9440940 10/29/13 11:42 PM
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Thank you very much Team Nor. This will be very helpful to tons of people.


Dave Morris



"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." --Thomas Jefferson,
Re: Your rights to fish and paddle on rivers explained concisely [Re: National Rivers] #9440943 10/29/13 11:42 PM
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Thanks for posting this. We have many landowners in Texas that wrongly believe that they own the water.

Re: Your rights to fish and paddle on rivers explained concisely [Re: National Rivers] #9441097 10/30/13 12:33 AM
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National Rivers Offline OP
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You are welcome! Please feel free to share with others who you think would find the information relevant. We look forward to having public rights on rivers acknowledged in places where they are doubted or denied. Cheers.

Re: Your rights to fish and paddle on rivers explained concisely [Re: Mateo Clemente] #9441246 10/30/13 01:13 AM
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Those that believe their property lines INCREASE as water levels drop ? LMAO!!
Such a delusional bunch of nim-rods they are . . . .
Call the Sheriff!!! ......Im fishing till they arrive . . . . .
Then Im back to fishen,thanks for wasting my day dipstick!
Originally Posted By: Mateo Clemente
Thanks for posting this. We have many landowners in Texas that wrongly believe that they own the water.

Re: Your rights to fish and paddle on rivers explained concisely [Re: National Rivers] #9443604 10/30/13 09:51 PM
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Printed out the Handout, it is almost impossible to read it. Can you get a better copy?
Thanks, Ron


Re: Your rights to fish and paddle on rivers explained concisely [Re: National Rivers] #9454910 11/04/13 04:35 PM
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JVM Offline
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Good stuff. Thanks for looking out


Fish On! - JVM
Rick MF Clunn!
Re: Your rights to fish and paddle on rivers explained concisely [Re: National Rivers] #9491268 11/18/13 07:19 AM
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I'm curious as to how this all plays out when you are on a lake? Say maybe a COE controlled lake. Do the same rules apply?


Dave Morris



"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." --Thomas Jefferson,
Re: Your rights to fish and paddle on rivers explained concisely [Re: Duckcreek Davy] #9491447 11/18/13 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted By: Duckcreek Davy
I'm curious as to how this all plays out when you are on a lake? Say maybe a COE controlled lake. Do the same rules apply?



yes, the navigable waters law is fed and allows all access to any navigable waterway in the U.S.

I had some experience with this in new mexico, property owner that owned both sides of the river was shooting at boaters. I was the "target" for the blm rangers to go in and bust him, I was really glad he was such a chitty shot.

http://www.usace.army.mil/Portals/2/docs...able_waters.pdf

the pdf gives specific scotus and other cases where navigability was determined, no one has a right to hinder your use of a lake in the U.S.
all they can do is not allow access through private property if they so choose.


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Re: Your rights to fish and paddle on rivers explained concisely [Re: hopalong] #9491742 11/18/13 03:15 PM
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ezgoing Offline
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Originally Posted By: hopalong
Originally Posted By: Duckcreek Davy
I'm curious as to how this all plays out when you are on a lake? Say maybe a COE controlled lake. Do the same rules apply?



yes, the navigable waters law is fed and allows all access to any navigable waterway in the U.S. ----



There are allowable restrictions that can be placed on navigable waters by the controlling body of that water.

Texas State Park Service can and does have restrictions on the water contained within the park boundaries.

C.O.E does have restrictions of parts of the lakes where you can not enter. You may fish them but your boat must stay outside of those boundaries.

Also you can not enter the waters contained within a slip with your boat. You can fish those waters from outside the slip but you can not enter the slip itself to fish those waters.

Recently a couple of boaters were ejected from Joe Pool Lake for entering marina slip waters to fish. They were told they could fish the water from outside the slip but if they entered the slip water with their boats they were trespassing.

And the slip owner or marina operator does not need to place barriers across the rear of the slip to keep you out. If you enter the slip waters of a slip you do not own or lease you can be charged with trespassing.

So when you fish those slips keep your boats outside the slip boundaries. When you see those restricted area buoys or roped off areas, stay out of the water enclosed by them with your boats.

Re: Your rights to fish and paddle on rivers explained concisely [Re: ezgoing] #9491780 11/18/13 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: ezgoing
Originally Posted By: hopalong
Originally Posted By: Duckcreek Davy
I'm curious as to how this all plays out when you are on a lake? Say maybe a COE controlled lake. Do the same rules apply?



yes, the navigable waters law is fed and allows all access to any navigable waterway in the U.S. ----



There are allowable restrictions that can be placed on navigable waters by the controlling body of that water.

Texas State Park Service can and does have restrictions on the water contained within the park boundaries.

C.O.E does have restrictions of parts of the lakes where you can not enter. You may fish them but your boat must stay outside of those boundaries.

Also you can not enter the waters contained within a slip with your boat. You can fish those waters from outside the slip but you can not enter the slip itself to fish those waters.

Recently a couple of boaters were ejected from Joe Pool Lake for entering marina slip waters to fish. They were told they could fish the water from outside the slip but if they entered the slip water with their boats they were trespassing.

And the slip owner or marina operator does not need to place barriers across the rear of the slip to keep you out. If you enter the slip waters of a slip you do not own or lease you can be charged with trespassing.

So when you fish those slips keep your boats outside the slip boundaries. When you see those restricted area buoys or roped off areas, stay out of the water enclosed by them with your boats.




true, you are guaranteed access to the water but not access to private property placed on it under a lease. common sense is all it takes.


" Hop, set the hook"!
hopalong 99,999
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Re: Your rights to fish and paddle on rivers explained concisely [Re: hopalong] #9491888 11/18/13 04:20 PM
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ezgoing Offline
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Originally Posted By: hopalong
Originally Posted By: ezgoing
Originally Posted By: hopalong
Originally Posted By: Duckcreek Davy
I'm curious as to how this all plays out when you are on a lake? Say maybe a COE controlled lake. Do the same rules apply?



yes, the navigable waters law is fed and allows all access to any navigable waterway in the U.S. ----



There are allowable restrictions that can be placed on navigable waters by the controlling body of that water.

Texas State Park Service can and does have restrictions on the water contained within the park boundaries.

C.O.E does have restrictions of parts of the lakes where you can not enter. You may fish them but your boat must stay outside of those boundaries.

Also you can not enter the waters contained within a slip with your boat. You can fish those waters from outside the slip but you can not enter the slip itself to fish those waters.

Recently a couple of boaters were ejected from Joe Pool Lake for entering marina slip waters to fish. They were told they could fish the water from outside the slip but if they entered the slip water with their boats they were trespassing.

And the slip owner or marina operator does not need to place barriers across the rear of the slip to keep you out. If you enter the slip waters of a slip you do not own or lease you can be charged with trespassing.

So when you fish those slips keep your boats outside the slip boundaries. When you see those restricted area buoys or roped off areas, stay out of the water enclosed by them with your boats.




true, you are guaranteed access to the water but not access to private property placed on it under a lease. common sense is all it takes.


Common sense seems to be rare about many anglers and boaters today.

There is a restricted area around a pump station near the marina where I have my slip. I watch several boats a day ignore the keep out buoys and the large signs on the pumping station to fish inside the restricted waters.

I am told several times a week by anglers fishing the slips that they can enter slip water with their boats to fish as long as they don't tie to or get on the slips.

I warn them the marina will have them rejected from the park if they catch them inside the slip waters and they get upset with me. But many slip owners will turn them in if they catch them inside the waters of empty slips as they are fed up with the damaged caused to their property by people fishing their slips.

I see boats coming into no wake areas at full speed, leaving large wakes behind them. I also see some of them ticketed as the game wardens are often at the launch area.

I see bass boats running WOT past people in the water or boats at anchor in the water.

Common sense would seem to tell them to either slow down or move out to the main section of the lake when they run from one fishing spot to another. But they run along the shore line, WOT, creating wakes that can cause hazards to other users of the lake.

So common sense is lacking in too many boaters. Which is why the exceptions to laws should be quoted when a law such as this is quoted, as too many anglers and boaters believe they can do whatever they wish when on the water.

Their "rights" trump the rights of all the other users of the lake, even as they cause destruction while exercising their "rights".

Re: Your rights to fish and paddle on rivers explained concisely [Re: CatBoss] #9494945 11/19/13 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: CatBoss

Those that believe their property lines INCREASE as water levels drop ? LMAO!!
Such a delusional bunch of nim-rods they are . . . .
Call the Sheriff!!! ......Im fishing till they arrive . . . . .
Then Im back to fishen,thanks for wasting my day dipstick!
Originally Posted By: Mateo Clemente
Thanks for posting this. We have many landowners in Texas that wrongly believe that they own the water.


That's not really such a joke as you may think. There are property owners on Lake Travis, and maybe other LCRA lakes that do exactly that, depending on how the contract was written. Some of the property lines do actually shift to follow the water line. There are others those property line extends to the middle of the channel regardless of water level, again depending on how the contract is written.
Also, Texas does not require a sign indicated posted property, even though some use fencing or a purple fence post to indicate a posted area. Bouys may indicate a private area, but sometimes mark a swim area, so at any rate, it's illegal to be in there also, so why risk it?
I seriously doubt that anyone can stop you from fishing in the middle of the channel or as long as you are not tied to someone's structure, but if a property owner, marina operator, or dock owner informs you that you are on his property and asks you to leave and you do not, you risk being cited or possibly arrested for criminal trespass. You can resist and argue it until the cows come home, but is it really worth being a test case just to catch a fish?
I personally take the side of the property owners, having been on this lake for 25 years and seeing some of the damage caused by inconsiderate boaters. I would probably feel the same.

Last edited by Bob Landry; 11/19/13 05:27 PM.

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Re: Your rights to fish and paddle on rivers explained concisely [Re: National Rivers] #9497912 11/20/13 06:26 PM
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One thing i have noticed about non-common sense boaters are how oblivious pleasure boaters can be. I fish a lot of off shore structure, whether it be main lake points, brush piles or road beds and more times than not(with a whole lake open mind you) boaters come within casting distance of me on plane. I dont understand how people have no common courtesy, hell i have even had people go between me and the shoreline when I am maybe 125ft out, its ridiculous. /rant over, just be courteous when you're out on the water


John Miller
Re: Your rights to fish and paddle on rivers explained concisely [Re: UTDmiller] #9498592 11/20/13 10:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: UTDmiller
One thing i have noticed about non-common sense boaters are how oblivious pleasure boaters can be. I fish a lot of off shore structure, whether it be main lake points, brush piles or road beds and more times than not(with a whole lake open mind you) boaters come within casting distance of me on plane. I dont understand how people have no common courtesy, hell i have even had people go between me and the shoreline when I am maybe 125ft out, its ridiculous. /rant over, just be courteous when you're out on the water


No doubt. It is out of hand but the same with our highways, people passing you on the way to a red light.. really?


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