Ivie was impounded in 1990.

(Currently 15% capacity remaining , 25% a year ago)

Assuming O.H Ivie dries up in the next year or two the life of this Reservoir was 22-24 years. What is the average life span of a reservoir in Texas? How many millions of dollars were put into Ivie for it to only last 20 something years. Seems like a failure of a project.

OC Fisher lasted 58 years, with the last 10 or so being completely worthless for sport fishing. What other large resevoirs can you think of that have gone dry?

Ivie wasn't built for fishing it was built for water capacity

How bad would west Texas be if they didn't have it

If it dried up, wouldn't it be a failure at that also???

Looks like we'll see in a few years. Going to be interested to see how west Texas survives the next 50-100 years with even less rain than they've had, which seems to be the trend. Especially when the Ogallala finally runs dry.

Actually it would have done its job at adding to the water supply

How is it a failure, Dan? Can't control mother nature. That is an semi-arid to arid region.

How old is Caddo Lake? Toledo? Rayburn? You get the point. Building reservoirs in West and South Texas is a gamble but has to be done to keep up with growth, or to help stimulate it. If they dry up, they dry up.

Building pipelines from areas with more average rainfall to carry water to the arid regions is cost-prohibitive.

That's something else I've wondered about. At what point would the cost of relatively short-lived reservoirs and city managers trying to please hundreds of thousands of angry residents outweigh the cost of building a massive pipeline system from the Mississippi or other major river systems to convey extra flood waters to reservoirs in dryer climates. I'm sure back in the day everyone said a railroad system spanning the entire country was ridiculous and too expensive. Turned out to be a major milestone in our history.

Amistad is 150 miles to the Concho river in San Angelo. West Texas could pay for it with the oil money. They pump oil then they can pump water.

I believe the pipeline from FT.Stockton to Midland is going to be helping control this but I am not sure...

I believe they are working on a pipeline already from Arizona. Not sure what one desert can give another but that is what I was told.

you all need to research the water wars in cali, theyre trying to kill the delta and pump all that fresh water south. Billions of dollars involved. Texas is next... a few people will become extremely wealthy screwing others.

84' low

http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/fishboat/fish/recreational/lakes/spence/

Yikes

A couple of things one they did not put Midland on water rations till last summer from I was told. I would also say that it is easier to pump fluid down hill then up and oil makes enough money to pay for the pumping. I think most people would be surprise to find out how much it would cost to pump water for long distance. I would think that if water price went up to .50 to a 1.00 a gallion because of sales and pumping people could not afford it any way. Yes it can be done but at what cost. I would also ask were are you going to get the water. The closes place is the Rockies and they are already fighting over that water. The next big place would be the Missippi river to get that much water it would have to start from up north to get enough down hill so that you would not have to pump to make a different. The cost would be huge if you could get the land to put the pipe line on.

I'm certain any major pipeline system would be an astronomical expense. And bio-security measures would have to be built-in with redundancy. It just seems like unthinkable alternatives have to start being considered if water supplies keep dropping. One might consider putting a population cap on west Texas cities... I know that one would go over like a fart in a diving helmet but options seem to be getting slim.

May be wrong, but think one of the main reason's they built OC Fisher (originally North Concho lake) was for flood control. San Angelo had a big flood way back before that lake was built. Think the last time it caught much water was back in 70's or 80's Concho River was up to the bridge at the park just above the lake.

After that San Angelo was a great place to live if you fished. OC Fisher had enough water to launch a boat, Twin Buttes had water through the equalization channel, and Spence was near full and who cared about Nasworthy.

Depends on the area, right's of way, environmental considerations, big brother and on and on. There's one built up north that is 400 miles long. Cost $360 million to build. That's $171/foot.

There's another proposed for the Corpus Christie area. 40 miles at a cost of $126 million. That's $585/foot.

OH Ivie is a great success compared to Optima Lake or Palo Duro.

Optima never got over 5% water capacity.

San Angelo is currently constructing a pipeline from the Hickory Aquifer in McCulloch County. The problem with the water qaulity is the amount of radium in the water. Treatment to reduce the levels of radium to acceptible levels is the current point of discussion. Otherwise you might notice a light green glow when you look west and south from the DFW area.

This is America, there is no way a population cap will ever be come to fruition. There are going to be massive water infastructure projects over the next 50 years. The cost of water will rise, but that is typically how supply and demand works. Texas needs a comprehensive water plan asap.

Possible Win/Win situation. Since unemployment and governmental waste are already at a staggering rate in our country , why not combine the two??

Create a modern day program like the CCC that was created in 1933 to build pipelines and waterways for drought relief. There are people who want to work and will work. I am sure those running our government can find a few billion that we already waste at home and abroad to fund the projects.

Just take roughly 2-8% a year of what we send to the rest of the world to help our owwn citizens with jobs and water issues here on our own soil..

Bingo! Something is going to have to be figured out and figured out quickly. There is no way around it unless someone can figure out how to make it rain.

If T. Boone Pickens sank a ton of money into water rights, I think we can see the writing on the wall. He didnt get rich by being stupid.

The City of Odessa approved buying Frack water yesterday. That is salt water that is extremely abundant in the Permian Basin. Once, a long long time ago, there was a sea that was in the permian basin called the Permian Sea. That is the reason there is so much oil out in West Texas.

Odessa is going to build a de-salination plant in Monahans and pipe the potable water to Odessa. I believe I read that there is 170 year water supply using the salt water.

When other cities do what Odessa is doing in West Texas, it will take some strain off of the lakes, but from what I understand, most lakes lose more water to wind and evaporation than they do from cities pulling off of them.

Also keep in mind the eath goes in cycles and the drought won't last forever. It will rain again.

Its funny because alot of people blame these lakes drying up on drought its not that when they built these lakes the population in west Texas and south texas was not what it is today. Because of that the lakes water sheds cannot keep up plus add also you are in a region that has never and never will recieve the rain totals every year to maintain them either thats what it boils down to population and demand in areas that doesnt get rain to carry that demand in water. All your east texas lakes like Rayburn and Toledo, Fork and so on we have bad years but they will fill back up because we do get the type rain needed to fill them back up.

Things like this are kind of funny because while they buy water, the oil companies around them are pumping it straight back into the ground at a million gallons a well to squeeze oil out of the rocks. Unreal. Not to mention the farmers that are starting to grow corn in areas that are way to dry for it because thats right... big gov will pay them to grow corn.

Who had to bring this up and ruin my day... lol.

Meredith. Not dry, but close enough. 90+ ft low.

Cameron, where did you find that picture. I used to fish there in the late 70's as a kid. There was some water in the dam area but the ramps were miles away. Always figured some planners lost their jobs after that failure.

Lol Lake Optima=FAIL!

It will rain again. Rain in west Texas is feast or famine. The trick is to catch as much water as you can during the flash floods and try to make it last during the dry times. Does any one know how long it actually took Ivie to fill up when the dam was first constructed?

I agree that water infrastructure projects will be a hot topic in west Texas as well in many other parts of the country in the near future. As the population increases many natural resources will continue to be stretched and I have no doubt there will be many new innovative measures to combat these issues.

I think Ivie filled up in about a week. I know Hubbard Creek filled up in a few days. They still had some equipment in it when it filled up. They later got it out.
It will rain again and fill most of the lakes up. I just wish it would hurry up and do it!

Curtis, are you aware of the cali deal? just curious.

I understand that a pipeline will be expensive....but.....How much money does the governent pay every year when the Mississippi floods. What is a better use of our money? Fence along the border......or a secure water supply....Either way it is gunna get ugly!!! We need a hurricane....or 5

lets not assume that it will go dry.. i dont like seeing it less than 15% but i like to think we wont lose it alltogether.. a few tropical storms and maybe she will survive.. got a good rain here in odessa here last night and last year we went months and i wondered if it would ever rain again.. getting better here but need more and need it in the right place for runoff..

Ok, what is really going on is a 10 year Droght. outside of 2007 everything west of I35 has been in a Drought since 1998.

Look at Hubbard Creek, Pre 2007 it was 3 foot lower than it is now and filed up in ONE month. since then it has slowly dropped with only minor shortlived raises in water storage.

If Ivie Cut Downstream releases to Buchanan four years ago it would be sitting in fairly good shape.

We've had one since 1997. How quickly it is being implemented and how well its working may be debatable.

In June 1997, Governor George W. Bush signed into law Senate Bill 1 (SB 1), comprehensive water legislation enacted by the 75th Texas Legislature. This comprehensive water legislation was an outgrowth of increased awareness of the vulnerability of Texas to drought and to the limits of existing water supplies to meet increasing demands as population grows. The state's population is expected to increase from its current level of about 24 million people to slightly more than 46 million people by the year 2060.

With passage of SB 1, the Legislature put in place a "bottom up" water planning process designed to ensure that the water needs of all Texans are met as Texas enters the 21st century. SB 1 allows individuals representing 11 interest groups to serve as members of Regional Water Planning Groups (RWPG) to prepare regional water plans for their respective areas. These plans will map out how to conserve water supplies, meet future water supply needs and respond to future droughts in the planning areas.

And then we would be having this same conversation about Buch and Travis

I am for this but we know it will never happen. The government makes it too easy for people to live for free without having to work.

This can be done but it costs big money. Turning salt water into fresh water is something that I have been a part of for a while, cost is killing the project.

Correct. I've been to his ranch in Pampa, Texas and I think it is up to 40,000 acres. He drilled into large aquifers and has several very large lakes of fresh water, Mesa Vista water. Pickens told me that his plan was to pipeline water to San Antonio, but I've since heard that he sold the water rights and is no longer involved.

A population cap isn't needed at this time... We aren't drinking all is our water we are wasting a LOT of it.

Jason

Yeah hurricane water plays a big role in pushn water to west Texas.

Somebody asked what lifespan of Texas lake, we were taught in our range classes the "average" lake lifespan is exspected to be 100 years but I think that was state wide.

Guys don't forget that inches wise last year was one of the worst years on record. Worse than the dust bowl, we talked about it a lot in agg classes at a&m this last year. We are as bad as its been... There are a lot of reasons to do with management that we lose a lot of water that hits our land, the loss of native grasslands because of mesquite and cedar incroachment makes a huge difference

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Lol i know the ivieites are keeping close watch

Your right about range management. If everyone in west texas that owns land with a decent size creek running through it would sign up for the watershed riparian programs available via the USDA office we would be in better shape. These programs pay the landowner the same as CRP to get rid of cedar, mesquite, prickly and salt cedars on about 90 foot either side of the waterway. Then they pay 40.00 an acre to maintain that area and keep livestock out. They will even pay for a portion of fencing it off. Landowners are still allowed to have areas funnel down to water livestock.

There is a lot off rangeland issues, some brought on by the state, they have done some stuff in the past that in hind sight just look dumb... Case and point, bringing in salt cedar and willow bakaras. riparian zones are a start but even more is needed.

This has been a good thread with alot of interesting information but I think it is important to put comprehensive water programs in Texas or any other state for that matter into perspective.

The planning and logistics of water collection and deversion at the state level is done with the current population and projected future populations in mind, and at what levels are needed for consumption in a given area. Sport fishing is not now nor has it ever been included in this equasion.

Sportfishing and conservation has always been a by-product of the water planning that has been done, and in some cases like the Colorado River the consumption planning (which includes 20 some odd dams in the continental US) eventually left out conservation consideration altogether. In fact only in years that have exstrordinary rainfall does any of the Colorado even reach the Gulf of California.

Sooner or later the state of Texas will have to do somthing dramatic to help out the western portion of the state, but it dont seem as though its in the works for anytime soon.

No, currently THIS is America. Thought this was interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIffq85zMI4&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Have to agree on wasting. Spent 20 yrs in Fl and yard watering restrictions there are pretty much all the time. Back in San Angelo 2006-2009 and there were no water restrictions even though OC Fisher was basically dry and Twin Buttes very low. Often saw people with yard sprinklers going mid day on 90+ degree days. All they were doing was briefly cooling the air & wasting water.

As the crow flies Optima is about 7 miles from my Uncles ranch. That project wound up taking a good portion of his land. What a waste. I drove over the dam last year. Good place to deer hunt. There were crews out there dismantling all the picnic areas. It made the news several years ago "Fleesing America"

Where is the Optima dam located.

Optima lake is in Oklahoma and Palo Duro is way up north. Just north of Spearmen, Texas

be hard to see OH Ive like this

http://www.abandonedok.com/optima-lake-state-park/

Here goes:

Midland "city fathers" and a newly created water "entity" are in a deal to pipe water from a field further west around Monahans, as Midland owns the water rights in that field. One of the members of that new "entity" is a former Midland "city father"......coincidence?....sounds like status quo around here.....brother-in-law government....and let's all line each other's pockets....

We have been on water restrictions since last summer. If you exceed the 10,000 gallon limit per household each month, your price per gallon is $19.55 per 1000 instead of the former $3.91 and if you exceed 25,000 it's $22.50 per 1000 instead of the old $4.50 rate.

A recent report based on the water bills of residents showed that 45% are exceeding the limits and/or are ignoring the restrictions. The report also showed that the majority of the addresses in that 45% are in the newer real estate areas of north and northwest Midland. I live in this area but my neighbors around us and my family are abiding by the restrictions. We do have one fellow on our street that flat said he'd water when he wanted to and he has yet to be cited.

The city said they are limiting the number of water well permits inside the city limits, but I have seen 5 wells being drilled in my area alone in the past month. Nothing boosts my property values more than the guy down the street with a water well beside his drive way..... The water well guys have waiting lists and the price for a well has doubled in the past year. But that's the old supply and demand situation.

What these people don't understand that the aquafier they are tapping into won't last forever either.