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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Floyd Yarbrough]
#7453228
04/24/12 10:55 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,127
Texas Smoke
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,127 |
Isn't the TPWD SAL program privately funded? If it is being funded by corporations and donations and NOT the taxpayer dollar, what does it matter? Yes it is privately funded. If you actually read his post, you would have seen that he thinks that money would be better spent in jsut purchasing more Florida strain bass and stocking them. Don't you think that all of the $$ spent on the SL program this year could have bought more than 40,000 eggs ???? The answer is a resounding yes. He also points out that if those 13 fish would have been C&R'ed, they certainly would have spawned out more than 40,000 eggs as a group. Don't you think Fork would have benefitted more from it's 2 SL's staying in the lake and spawning naturally as opposed to be taken out and producing ZERO eggs for Fork this season ?
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Fast Lane]
#7453234
04/24/12 10:56 PM
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 7,111
horseplaydvm
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 7,111 |
Sharelunker program is not hurting our big fish population. Tournaments and overstocking are. Everyone likes to see big fish brought to the scales, but that kills more fish across the state of Texas in one weekend than the Sharelunker program might kill in a season. IF everyone wants to see larger fish being caught then have a statewide length limit of 20". Anything over 20" must be turned loose. That will help the survival of big fish and encourage people who might actually keep bass for food to keep the smaller fish which require more food intake for growth. I personally believe the biggest thing that has hurt the large population of big fish in Fork is overstocking. From the first stocking in 1979 to 1994 TP&W put over 700,000 fingerlings in Fork. We had the largest number of big fish over 13 lbs in the 90's. Then, from 1995 to 2011 they have stocked over 9 million fingerlings. Yes, that puts a lot of fish in the water for the increased number of fisherman that have flocked there since the 90's but it has also drastically increased the competition for food. This timing was critical because of the age of the fish over 13 lbs at the time when they are dying of natural causes to the time of younger fish having to compete for food to grow to that magical size. Also, the LMB virus killed a lot of fish during this critical time. Certainly fluctuating water levels have had a negative impact on the bass population as well. Every lake that I have fished in the last ten years with a good grass content that was diminished has suffered in bass population. Fork, Amistad, Choke Canyon, and Ray Roberts. When the grass population was healthy the fish population was healthy. Some lakes that do not have grass do benefit from fluctuating water levels to some degree, such as Falcon. It allows natural vegetation growth to occur during low levels that provide food and nutrients when the water level is up, but this is a more temporary occurrence. Year long forage such as milfoil, hydrilla, and coon tail have a more lasting effect on the fish population. There is no debate on whether genetics improves the quality of a fish, animal, vegetable or anything else for that matter. The question is, How much impact has the Sharelunker program had on the quality of bass in our lakes? That can be debated but I am happy that Texas has the only program I know of designed to try to increase the chance of me catching a 13 lb+ fish. And we as taxpayers are paying very little for it! So James, I appreciate everything you do for the conservation of bass fishing and care and handling of big fish. You are a valued resource to all bass fisherman who visit that piece of paradise called Falcon Lake. But, you need to realize that tournaments kill more big fish than the sharelunker program. I have seen it first hand too many times. Until you start chiming in to change the tournament requirements then I think you need to just let it go. It is not costing you much if any money and has probably made you a LOT of money from selling tackle to all those who have been to your store in search of that "Sharelunker" from Falcon Lake. Plus, it is much more enjoyable to read your fishing reports than your bashing of the sharelunker program every year. Tournaments are not hurting the Big Fish Population, that is BS.. Really? You want me to start posting pics? I doubt it. Folks don't get me wrong, I am not against tournaments or someone doing what they want legally with a fish they catch. I'm trying to point out to James that he is complaining about a program that has little effect on the death of big fish compared to other means whether it be tournaments, meat hunters, or natural causes. How many big fish has the SAL program saved from hanging on someones wall? That is their intent for giving a free replica. You guys assume that these big fish would be simply be put back in the water if not for the SAL program. Yes, some can afford the replica but some can't. Here are some faq's for everyone to read from TP&W website. I am officially done with this topic until next year. http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/spdest/visitorcenters/tffc/sharelunker/faq/
![[Linked Image]](http://i952.photobucket.com/albums/ae3/horseplaydvm/th_add70bd3.jpg) Gone Fishing B.A.S. 6/5/47-6/6/12 C.W.S. 9/29/72- 10/17/23
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Floyd Yarbrough]
#7453238
04/24/12 10:56 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,853
catslayer
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,853 |
Isn't the TPWD SAL program privately funded? If it is being funded by corporations and donations and NOT the taxpayer dollar, what does it matter? If privately funded then it is even worse if James is correct(which we really can't say for sure yet but he has a point). Because that would mean that somebody is paying to not get it done. If public it is a matter of using the dollar most effectively. Texas smoke, if James numbers are right(i don't doubt them), makes the point very quickly... If we nixed sharelunker, I think you keep the mount program you switch it over and say, "if you put up a fish that is on the top 50 list in texas all time then you deserve the mount etc." That keeps interest in big'ns but limits it even more, like adding a slot. The only problem with a slot is scaring tourneys away...
"I'll never mess with bee's or wasp anymore, and I'll never gig another beaver..." Words from a man who learned things the hard way
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Fast Lane]
#7453247
04/24/12 10:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,127
Texas Smoke
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,127 |
Bunch of Keyboard Biologists....LMAO.. As opposed to the "real" biologists at TPWD that took an 11 lb'er from Toledo to Athens instead of the 14 lb'er that they were supposed to take ?? That degree may look good on paper, but if you can't tell the difference between a 14 lb'er and a 11 lb'er .............
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Texas Smoke]
#7453249
04/24/12 10:59 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 860
CTA
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 860 |
Straight from the ShareLunker website. Front page ......
"TFFC is headquarters for the Toyota ShareLunker Program, which encourages anglers who have caught 13-pound-plus largemouth bass to lend or donate the fish to TPWD for spawning purposes."
What James pointed out in his post was that out of the 13 SL's donated this year, ONE spawned. Not sure how anyone could argue with those numbers. All of the time, energy and money devoted to this program and the best they can do is get one single fish to spit out 40,000 eggs ??
How do you folks think that is good ? That's 40,000 more eggs than they started with! I agree with Zeeter that more under fish need to be harvested from Fork to increase the larger fish population.
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: JPost]
#7453265
04/24/12 11:03 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,853
catslayer
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,853 |
Nice case work James!
Which one of those degreed fellows in Athens would reccomend to the govener their program has ran its course and should be shut down? James pointed out that there is AT LEAST 4 more years before we can tell in public lakes... I say give it the time, otherwise ALL the money you spent is wasted for sure. If it turns up they were wrong... then yeah by all means lets buy us some fingerlings(which I think we should do in addition to sl anyway)
"I'll never mess with bee's or wasp anymore, and I'll never gig another beaver..." Words from a man who learned things the hard way
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Bkr10]
#7453276
04/24/12 11:04 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,624
Shawn Mead
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,624 |
Amazingly....it is the tools that troll in the "Off Topic" forum that churn up this [censored].
  Lake Fork Mafia
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: horseplaydvm]
#7453278
04/24/12 11:05 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,127
Texas Smoke
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,127 |
Sharelunker program is not hurting our big fish population. Tournaments and overstocking are. Everyone likes to see big fish brought to the scales, but that kills more fish across the state of Texas in one weekend than the Sharelunker program might kill in a season. IF everyone wants to see larger fish being caught then have a statewide length limit of 20". Anything over 20" must be turned loose. That will help the survival of big fish and encourage people who might actually keep bass for food to keep the smaller fish which require more food intake for growth. I personally believe the biggest thing that has hurt the large population of big fish in Fork is overstocking. From the first stocking in 1979 to 1994 TP&W put over 700,000 fingerlings in Fork. We had the largest number of big fish over 13 lbs in the 90's. Then, from 1995 to 2011 they have stocked over 9 million fingerlings. Yes, that puts a lot of fish in the water for the increased number of fisherman that have flocked there since the 90's but it has also drastically increased the competition for food. This timing was critical because of the age of the fish over 13 lbs at the time when they are dying of natural causes to the time of younger fish having to compete for food to grow to that magical size. Also, the LMB virus killed a lot of fish during this critical time. Certainly fluctuating water levels have had a negative impact on the bass population as well. Every lake that I have fished in the last ten years with a good grass content that was diminished has suffered in bass population. Fork, Amistad, Choke Canyon, and Ray Roberts. When the grass population was healthy the fish population was healthy. Some lakes that do not have grass do benefit from fluctuating water levels to some degree, such as Falcon. It allows natural vegetation growth to occur during low levels that provide food and nutrients when the water level is up, but this is a more temporary occurrence. Year long forage such as milfoil, hydrilla, and coon tail have a more lasting effect on the fish population. There is no debate on whether genetics improves the quality of a fish, animal, vegetable or anything else for that matter. The question is, How much impact has the Sharelunker program had on the quality of bass in our lakes? That can be debated but I am happy that Texas has the only program I know of designed to try to increase the chance of me catching a 13 lb+ fish. And we as taxpayers are paying very little for it! So James, I appreciate everything you do for the conservation of bass fishing and care and handling of big fish. You are a valued resource to all bass fisherman who visit that piece of paradise called Falcon Lake. But, you need to realize that tournaments kill more big fish than the sharelunker program. I have seen it first hand too many times. Until you start chiming in to change the tournament requirements then I think you need to just let it go. It is not costing you much if any money and has probably made you a LOT of money from selling tackle to all those who have been to your store in search of that "Sharelunker" from Falcon Lake. Plus, it is much more enjoyable to read your fishing reports than your bashing of the sharelunker program every year. Tournaments are not hurting the Big Fish Population, that is BS.. Really? You want me to start posting pics? I doubt it. Folks don't get me wrong, I am not against tournaments or someone doing what they want legally with a fish they catch. I'm trying to point out to James that he is complaining about a program that has little effect on the death of big fish compared to other means whether it be tournaments, meat hunters, or natural causes. How many big fish has the SAL program saved from hanging on someones wall? That is their intent for giving a free replica. You guys assume that these big fish would be simply be put back in the water if not for the SAL program. Yes, some can afford the replica but some can't. Here are some faq's for everyone to read from TP&W website. I am officially done with this topic until next year. http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/spdest/visitorcenters/tffc/sharelunker/faq/ What's the difference if it is on someone's wall or if it is in Athens not spawning ?? Neither of those scenarios has a positive effect on the future of the lake they came from. You keep pointing to the fact that the SL program does not hurt the big fish population. Problem is, James' main point is not that it HURTS the population, it's that it doesn't HELP. So you're a bit off track in your argument. To get back on track, do you think the SL program HELPS the big fish population ?
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Bkr10]
#7453317
04/24/12 11:17 PM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,120
Hoss Holding
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,120 |
I think it runs deeper than if the SAL helps or hurts bass fishing in Texas, I think you can make a great argument on both sides of the fence. Numbers dont lie and Giant Bass are down but average weights for Tournaments have benn on the increase. Here is a few reasons why I think that is.
1. Improvment of equipment, You can watch a bass wipe his rump in 35 feet of water now, could not do that when 17 pounders where showing up early in the SAL.
2. Better rods, reels baits and line. Once you see him, you have the equipment to get him.
3. Better fisherman, there is so much information and most can pattern bass year round, Take the improvment of all the equipment, wee are catching more 4 to 7 pounderes that may not have ever seen a bait when SAL started.
4. Numbers of fish do depend on habitat, water level and quailty and how many fry survive, both from natural spawn and those stocked by SAL. we are getting the 4 to 7 pounders before they can reach 13 pounds. it shows in overall tournament weights as a whole.
Some one said we are stocking to many and there are to many small fish, I have to disagree with that. I think it is just the opposite, The more of the fry that survive, the more numbers there will be and with more numbers of fishermen there will be those who can escape and reach world class status that we all want to see. Its the numbers game, Put 1,000 fish in a pond, put a 100 fisherman on them and it will get wiped out, Put 100,000 thousand in a pond and some will survive the fisherman and themselves.
One other thing that we are missing in all of this, It is kind of like our highways, as we continue to add more and more cars you have traffic and traffic jams, same with our lakes, more and more boats are added each year and there has to be some land that must be squared off for additional lakes to handle the pressure that there is on them today. When texas was setting records at Fork, it was 1 fisher man to every 100 bass, that ratio now is more like 1 fisherman to every 8 bass. The one thing I would like to see SAL do is improve the survival of the fry stocked. There is so much money put into the stockings, add 6 bucks to my fishing license and buy some minnows and raise the guys to 8 inches long so thay can have a chance and more numbers will be there and allow more that will make it to the goals SAL set when it started.
I am blessed to have a opportunity to live a childhood dream as a professional wrestler
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: horseplaydvm]
#7453391
04/24/12 11:39 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,053
Fast Lane
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,053 |
Sharelunker program is not hurting our big fish population. Tournaments and overstocking are. Everyone likes to see big fish brought to the scales, but that kills more fish across the state of Texas in one weekend than the Sharelunker program might kill in a season. IF everyone wants to see larger fish being caught then have a statewide length limit of 20". Anything over 20" must be turned loose. That will help the survival of big fish and encourage people who might actually keep bass for food to keep the smaller fish which require more food intake for growth. I personally believe the biggest thing that has hurt the large population of big fish in Fork is overstocking. From the first stocking in 1979 to 1994 TP&W put over 700,000 fingerlings in Fork. We had the largest number of big fish over 13 lbs in the 90's. Then, from 1995 to 2011 they have stocked over 9 million fingerlings. Yes, that puts a lot of fish in the water for the increased number of fisherman that have flocked there since the 90's but it has also drastically increased the competition for food. This timing was critical because of the age of the fish over 13 lbs at the time when they are dying of natural causes to the time of younger fish having to compete for food to grow to that magical size. Also, the LMB virus killed a lot of fish during this critical time. Certainly fluctuating water levels have had a negative impact on the bass population as well. Every lake that I have fished in the last ten years with a good grass content that was diminished has suffered in bass population. Fork, Amistad, Choke Canyon, and Ray Roberts. When the grass population was healthy the fish population was healthy. Some lakes that do not have grass do benefit from fluctuating water levels to some degree, such as Falcon. It allows natural vegetation growth to occur during low levels that provide food and nutrients when the water level is up, but this is a more temporary occurrence. Year long forage such as milfoil, hydrilla, and coon tail have a more lasting effect on the fish population. There is no debate on whether genetics improves the quality of a fish, animal, vegetable or anything else for that matter. The question is, How much impact has the Sharelunker program had on the quality of bass in our lakes? That can be debated but I am happy that Texas has the only program I know of designed to try to increase the chance of me catching a 13 lb+ fish. And we as taxpayers are paying very little for it! So James, I appreciate everything you do for the conservation of bass fishing and care and handling of big fish. You are a valued resource to all bass fisherman who visit that piece of paradise called Falcon Lake. But, you need to realize that tournaments kill more big fish than the sharelunker program. I have seen it first hand too many times. Until you start chiming in to change the tournament requirements then I think you need to just let it go. It is not costing you much if any money and has probably made you a LOT of money from selling tackle to all those who have been to your store in search of that "Sharelunker" from Falcon Lake. Plus, it is much more enjoyable to read your fishing reports than your bashing of the sharelunker program every year. Tournaments are not hurting the Big Fish Population, that is BS.. Really? You want me to start posting pics? I doubt it. Folks don't get me wrong, I am not against tournaments or someone doing what they want legally with a fish they catch. I'm trying to point out to James that he is complaining about a program that has little effect on the death of big fish compared to other means whether it be tournaments, meat hunters, or natural causes. How many big fish has the SAL program saved from hanging on someones wall? That is their intent for giving a free replica. You guys assume that these big fish would be simply be put back in the water if not for the SAL program. Yes, some can afford the replica but some can't. Here are some faq's for everyone to read from TP&W website. I am officially done with this topic until next year. http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/spdest/visitorcenters/tffc/sharelunker/faq/ I am a tournament director and had tournaments monthly for the past 18 months and I can count on one hand how many fish in my tournaments have died before the weigh-in. Not one of them have been over 2.5lbs. So tournaments harming the Big Fish population is BS..... By they way there are more recreational none-tournament angler's than tournament angler's, do you want them to stop catching big fish too? A 20" minimum..Come on man.... Nonesense....
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Bkr10]
#7453422
04/24/12 11:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,141
Rodney2100
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,141 |
I would suggest that the sl program pay for me to go to CB twice a week and catch some of those Florida bass. They can work out a deal with mike to buy the under 8 lb fish and rent the 10lb plus fish.....pretty simple and it would most likely be less expensive.
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Texas Smoke]
#7453436
04/24/12 11:50 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,053
Fast Lane
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,053 |
Bunch of Keyboard Biologists....LMAO.. As opposed to the "real" biologists at TPWD that took an 11 lb'er from Toledo to Athens instead of the 14 lb'er that they were supposed to take ?? That degree may look good on paper, but if you can't tell the difference between a 14 lb'er and a 11 lb'er ............. There wouldn't be any 14lber to pick up if it wasn't for those biologists at TPWD that brought Florida Bass to Texas Waters in the first place. You would still be catching Native Northern strain bass that don't get that big...
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Fast Lane]
#7453504
04/25/12 12:06 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,127
Texas Smoke
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,127 |
Bunch of Keyboard Biologists....LMAO.. As opposed to the "real" biologists at TPWD that took an 11 lb'er from Toledo to Athens instead of the 14 lb'er that they were supposed to take ?? That degree may look good on paper, but if you can't tell the difference between a 14 lb'er and a 11 lb'er ............. There wouldn't be any 14lber to pick up if it wasn't for those biologists at TPWD that brought Florida Bass to Texas Waters in the first place. You would still be catching Native Northern strain bass that don't get that big... And ................. ?? You think it takes a fisheries biology degree to figure out that Florida Bass get bigger than Northern Bass ? I think my 7 year old knows that. Those are the same biologists that stocked Walleye in Lake Conroe. How did that work out for 'em ?
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Fast Lane]
#7453576
04/25/12 12:23 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,853
catslayer
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,853 |
I am a tournament director and had tournaments monthly for the past 18 months and I can count on one hand how many fish in my tournaments have died before the weigh-in. Not one of them have been over 2.5lbs. So tournaments harming the Big Fish population is BS..... By they way there are more recreational none-tournament angler's than tournament angler's, do you want them to stop catching big fish too? A 20" minimum..Come on man.... Nonesense....
so your saying that a cr@p ton didn't die at falcon when the elites went there? Why haven't they been back? oh yeah thats why... The point that is MORE relivant, dude that AWESOME that your tourneys havn't been killing fish, but not everybody is as careful as you and your crew... A slot isn't a 20 inch minimum, a slot is a slot... And it is shown to work. DHolding was right in saying there is more too it than just BIG BIG fish, tourney stringers and fish size as a whole need to be looked at, but as James said, enough time hasn't passed for publicly stocked fry to reach maturity.
"I'll never mess with bee's or wasp anymore, and I'll never gig another beaver..." Words from a man who learned things the hard way
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: westtexgolfer]
#7453633
04/25/12 12:38 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,853
catslayer
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,853 |
Experience carries over in any industry or field. Just my 2 cents. I completely disagree with this statement... It does make a difference in what field/industry it is in and just so I don't take up a bunch of space here are 2 examples... 1) I would rather have a pilot that just got his license flying my plane than some guy that has been flying a simulator in his garage for 10 years... 2) I would rather have a heart surgeon that just graduated doing my surgery then some guy that has been studying hearts and how they react on animals in his barn... this doesn't even glide much less fly... experience only counts if you are ACTUALLY preforming the act in question. That's why it says RELIANT experience, simulator teaching tool, study of the heart ENTIRELY DIFFERENT FIELD than preforming operations on the heart... One that make sense and prove your point- Accountant who is fully versed in the most up to date tax law vs. old crotchety accountant who has been in the business forever and hasn't stayed as up to date as one would hope. In reality the old guy just hires the new guy and pays him badly...
"I'll never mess with bee's or wasp anymore, and I'll never gig another beaver..." Words from a man who learned things the hard way
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