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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Allison1]
#7453078
04/24/12 10:17 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,800
FZ1
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,800 |
Has SL been good to the state of Texas? How could anyone disagree with that statement and yet here we are.
Is there anyone here who tournament fished in the 70's? Does anyone remember how Monticello came to prominence and how it broke the then 40 year old state record? Anyone who tournament fished before the Florida bass was introduced to Texas remembers how much different the fish size was back then.
SL did help Texas and maybe we're not talking about from the get go but yes it made a 10 pound fish in Texas much much more common. Even at Falcon as a child we caught lots and lots of nice fish. It has always been the best tournament lake in the state if you go by the number of hours required to catch a fish. Falcon back then did not have many if any fish over 10 pounds. If it did I never saw them. So did SL contribute to this or is it just something new? I don't know but I think short memories may try to make a case against the SL program and maybe their input today is not as much as it was back then but I think it more than likely contributes. Its just not as easy to show.
That ain't right. The introduction of Florida Strain bass into Texas resulted in the big fish:NOT,the Share Lunker Program.
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Bkr10]
#7453083
04/24/12 10:18 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,242
Lake Fork Guide Zach Hughes
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,242 |
Alright you girls made the decision easy for me......... next 13 I catch is getting filleted and that way yall won't have this argument every other thread......
It's the dang anglers fish, let him do what he or she wants!
There are arguments for both sides! It's all opinions until hard facts are proven.
You wanna know why the large fish are on the decline....... Because no one will take small fish home and eat them anymore because every one is so caught up on catch and release that it causes competition. Any of yall wanna argue that take a trip to C Bell!
Now have a good night...... and I don't have a Biology degree
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Bkr10]
#7453097
04/24/12 10:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,445
Don Morey
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,445 |
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Bkr10]
#7453101
04/24/12 10:21 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,011
Floyd Yarbrough
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,011 |
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Bkr10]
#7453114
04/24/12 10:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,689
squib
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,689 |
Some of you guys set up a straw man argument about experience v. education/degrees. I am in agreement--if I am going to open a pizza parlor, I am going to hire a guy that has been running a pizza place for 20 years and probably not the guy who just got his MBA but never worked. Pizza parlor experience wins out.
So now we move on to fishery biology. My thoughts are that people who don't have a fishery biology degree likely have little experience in fishery biology. Unlike running a pizza place, you don't just run out and get fishery biology experience by putting in a lot of years in the trenches.
So since we all agree that experience is more important (usually), I will rephrase my earlier comment: I will trust the guys with fishery biology experience over someone without any.
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Bkr10]
#7453126
04/24/12 10:28 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,906
JPost
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,906 |
Nice case work James!
SAL seems to be like so many other well intentioned government programs. They start out with good intentions and then grow and grow until they become their own biggest fan and promoter -- a self licking lolly pop so to speak. Which one of those degreed fellows in Athens would reccomend to the govener their program has ran its course and should be shut down?
One benefit is that it must provide some good PR outside of Texas about our fishing here but other than that, Jame's analysis wins in my book.
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Bkr10]
#7453127
04/24/12 10:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,872
Dr JL
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,872 |
Interesting read... IDK I need to think about it--maybe the sal program does not hurt or help as much as either side thinks. More pure strain floridas under the right conditions are gonna help, so I want my money heading that way. I also don't mind a little money spent on producing a bigger bass-maybe thus far it has not happened but at least our state is trying. Happy to be Texan here. It is VERY hard to get a 13 anywhere anyplace under any conditions--even pvt, even cali, even out of country.
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: squib]
#7453131
04/24/12 10:29 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 13,767
Cameron
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 13,767 |
blah blah blah. Ain't nobody got time for that.
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Bkr10]
#7453146
04/24/12 10:33 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,800
FZ1
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,800 |
Look. The only thing TPWD has proven is that their "Strange Brew" of matching up big fish hasn't worked.
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Allison1]
#7453157
04/24/12 10:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,127
Texas Smoke
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,127 |
Has SL been good to the state of Texas? How could anyone disagree with that statement and yet here we are.
Is there anyone here who tournament fished in the 70's? Does anyone remember how Monticello came to prominence and how it broke the then 40 year old state record? Anyone who tournament fished before the Florida bass was introduced to Texas remembers how much different the fish size was back then.
SL did help Texas and maybe we're not talking about from the get go but yes it made a 10 pound fish in Texas much much more common. Even at Falcon as a child we caught lots and lots of nice fish. It has always been the best tournament lake in the state if you go by the number of hours required to catch a fish. Falcon back then did not have many if any fish over 10 pounds. If it did I never saw them. So did SL contribute to this or is it just something new? I don't know but I think short memories may try to make a case against the SL program and maybe their input today is not as much as it was back then but I think it more than likely contributes. Its just not as easy to show.
You are confusing the Florida Bass stocking program with the SL program. The SL program has nothing to do with the proliferation of big bass on Falcon because they had ZERO SL program fry put in there until jsut the last few years.
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: horseplaydvm]
#7453173
04/24/12 10:40 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,053
Fast Lane
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,053 |
Sharelunker program is not hurting our big fish population. Tournaments and overstocking are. Everyone likes to see big fish brought to the scales, but that kills more fish across the state of Texas in one weekend than the Sharelunker program might kill in a season. IF everyone wants to see larger fish being caught then have a statewide length limit of 20". Anything over 20" must be turned loose. That will help the survival of big fish and encourage people who might actually keep bass for food to keep the smaller fish which require more food intake for growth. I personally believe the biggest thing that has hurt the large population of big fish in Fork is overstocking. From the first stocking in 1979 to 1994 TP&W put over 700,000 fingerlings in Fork. We had the largest number of big fish over 13 lbs in the 90's. Then, from 1995 to 2011 they have stocked over 9 million fingerlings. Yes, that puts a lot of fish in the water for the increased number of fisherman that have flocked there since the 90's but it has also drastically increased the competition for food. This timing was critical because of the age of the fish over 13 lbs at the time when they are dying of natural causes to the time of younger fish having to compete for food to grow to that magical size. Also, the LMB virus killed a lot of fish during this critical time. Certainly fluctuating water levels have had a negative impact on the bass population as well. Every lake that I have fished in the last ten years with a good grass content that was diminished has suffered in bass population. Fork, Amistad, Choke Canyon, and Ray Roberts. When the grass population was healthy the fish population was healthy. Some lakes that do not have grass do benefit from fluctuating water levels to some degree, such as Falcon. It allows natural vegetation growth to occur during low levels that provide food and nutrients when the water level is up, but this is a more temporary occurrence. Year long forage such as milfoil, hydrilla, and coon tail have a more lasting effect on the fish population. There is no debate on whether genetics improves the quality of a fish, animal, vegetable or anything else for that matter. The question is, How much impact has the Sharelunker program had on the quality of bass in our lakes? That can be debated but I am happy that Texas has the only program I know of designed to try to increase the chance of me catching a 13 lb+ fish. And we as taxpayers are paying very little for it! So James, I appreciate everything you do for the conservation of bass fishing and care and handling of big fish. You are a valued resource to all bass fisherman who visit that piece of paradise called Falcon Lake. But, you need to realize that tournaments kill more big fish than the sharelunker program. I have seen it first hand too many times. Until you start chiming in to change the tournament requirements then I think you need to just let it go. It is not costing you much if any money and has probably made you a LOT of money from selling tackle to all those who have been to your store in search of that "Sharelunker" from Falcon Lake. Plus, it is much more enjoyable to read your fishing reports than your bashing of the sharelunker program every year. Tournaments are not hurting the Big Fish Population, that is BS..
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Bkr10]
#7453181
04/24/12 10:41 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,127
Texas Smoke
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,127 |
Straight from the ShareLunker website. Front page ......
"TFFC is headquarters for the Toyota ShareLunker Program, which encourages anglers who have caught 13-pound-plus largemouth bass to lend or donate the fish to TPWD for spawning purposes."
What James pointed out in his post was that out of the 13 SL's donated this year, ONE spawned. Not sure how anyone could argue with those numbers. All of the time, energy and money devoted to this program and the best they can do is get one single fish to spit out 40,000 eggs ??
How do you folks think that is good ?
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Bkr10]
#7453204
04/24/12 10:47 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,053
Fast Lane
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 6,053 |
Bunch of Keyboard Biologists....LMAO..
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: Bkr10]
#7453212
04/24/12 10:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,011
Floyd Yarbrough
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,011 |
Isn't the TPWD SAL program privately funded? If it is being funded by corporations and donations and NOT the taxpayer dollar, what does it matter?
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Re: Wow, what a read from Falcon Lake Tackle
[Re: horseplaydvm]
#7453217
04/24/12 10:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,853
catslayer
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,853 |
Sharelunker program is not hurting our big fish population. Tournaments and overstocking are. Everyone likes to see big fish brought to the scales, but that kills more fish across the state of Texas in one weekend than the Sharelunker program might kill in a season. IF everyone wants to see larger fish being caught then have a statewide length limit of 20". Anything over 20" must be turned loose. That will help the survival of big fish and encourage people who might actually keep bass for food to keep the smaller fish which require more food intake for growth. I personally believe the biggest thing that has hurt the large population of big fish in Fork is overstocking. From the first stocking in 1979 to 1994 TP&W put over 700,000 fingerlings in Fork. We had the largest number of big fish over 13 lbs in the 90's. Then, from 1995 to 2011 they have stocked over 9 million fingerlings. Yes, that puts a lot of fish in the water for the increased number of fisherman that have flocked there since the 90's but it has also drastically increased the competition for food. This timing was critical because of the age of the fish over 13 lbs at the time when they are dying of natural causes to the time of younger fish having to compete for food to grow to that magical size. Also, the LMB virus killed a lot of fish during this critical time. Certainly fluctuating water levels have had a negative impact on the bass population as well. Every lake that I have fished in the last ten years with a good grass content that was diminished has suffered in bass population. Fork, Amistad, Choke Canyon, and Ray Roberts. When the grass population was healthy the fish population was healthy. Some lakes that do not have grass do benefit from fluctuating water levels to some degree, such as Falcon. It allows natural vegetation growth to occur during low levels that provide food and nutrients when the water level is up, but this is a more temporary occurrence. Year long forage such as milfoil, hydrilla, and coon tail have a more lasting effect on the fish population. There is no debate on whether genetics improves the quality of a fish, animal, vegetable or anything else for that matter. The question is, How much impact has the Sharelunker program had on the quality of bass in our lakes? That can be debated but I am happy that Texas has the only program I know of designed to try to increase the chance of me catching a 13 lb+ fish. And we as taxpayers are paying very little for it! So James, I appreciate everything you do for the conservation of bass fishing and care and handling of big fish. You are a valued resource to all bass fisherman who visit that piece of paradise called Falcon Lake. But, you need to realize that tournaments kill more big fish than the sharelunker program. I have seen it first hand too many times. Until you start chiming in to change the tournament requirements then I think you need to just let it go. It is not costing you much if any money and has probably made you a LOT of money from selling tackle to all those who have been to your store in search of that "Sharelunker" from Falcon Lake. Plus, it is much more enjoyable to read your fishing reports than your bashing of the sharelunker program every year. I am a fan of a state wide slot... that would help a lot. As for overstocking... A baby bass every bit as yummy to a big bass as a minnow, if they were stocking minnows in those numbers nobody would be complaining. The only issue in the article is what James stated himself, there isn't ANY possibility that any of the fingerlings have gotten to their potential size, and I want to add that unless there is a tagging program on fingerlings I am unaware off it would be hard, DNA testing is a possible to match parents.(isn't it?JERRY, JERRY! oh sry...) Tournaments do kill a lot of fish but to me the stat that is most important in all of this is the one about how many fish spawn, and how many fingerlings we get. If only 10 percent spawn in the SL tank then yeah there is an issue. The benefit/cost ration is BAD. SL may kill one 13 a year BUT what about all those fry that didn't get spawned? Ok yeah there is the chance that she wouldn't have spawned at home either but as my reproduction professor always said, "the way to get the best calf crop is to put the bull with the cows and LEAVE THEM". Natural is the most efficient way that the species has found. Now I am not for kicking SL right away, BUT if numbers don't go up after SL stockings year classes are big enough to be SL's then yeah the program may be less effective. I think the answer right now... unfortunately, is we have to wait a bit more and see. Yeah I know it sucks, but you can't assume the outcome of an experiment before the end. And that is what SL is when it comes down to it... Nothing has been tried like this before. Now In a few years do I think that it should be looked at, heck yeah, cause we could buy a LOT of Florida fingerlings and maybe make a lot of change FAST.I would like to see California strain too, but IDK if that is possible to get or if those fish are just Floridian as well.
"I'll never mess with bee's or wasp anymore, and I'll never gig another beaver..." Words from a man who learned things the hard way
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