Last couple times out for bass w/ my 5wt the wind was bad and hard to cast. Been thinking about getting a 8,9 wt rod for bass. Now question is would the heavier rod/line help casting in the wind. I know the rod would help w/ those larger bass flies. Or is t just me looking for an excuse to get a new toy??
Thanks

TFO 8-10 MiniMag is my go to LMB fly rod - can't be beat IMO ..

Many authorities (lefty etc...) suggest that going down a weight, say from a 8 to a 5 wt is the direction to go when fighting wind. The theory is the smaller diameter line provides better flight characteristics against wind than thicker wt. This has also been my experience. However, when casting big bass bugs going to an 8 wt will probably help. That is a general rule of thumb. It will also depend on which 8 wt rod you go to. My favorite fly is Fred's Field Mouse, a light fly with lotsa bulk. Casting it into the wind with any rod is a bugger, but it is easier for me with an 8 weight. If'n I was you, I would take a big ol' fly with the hook clipped off and tie it on rods your interested in at your local fly fishing store and see which fits your casting style.

Ohh, and that being said, if the wind is calm (like less than 4 mph), I use a cheap 5 wt with a medium action when casting mice and other such flies for bass.

I'm no expert so curious what everyone thought, and it's not like I have extra $ for a new setup anyway

Gotta kidney? I used my right one to get a sweet little leonard...ok. But its not a bad idea!

The simple answer is yes, the heavier line will cast better in the wind for the average caster. In simple terms, Force = Mass X Acceleration. Assuming the same caster, using the same model rod will generate the same acceleration will be generated with both line weights. Since the heavier line will have more mass, more force will be generated by the heavier line to punch through the wind.

The reality is that it is not actually that simple, there are other variables that come into play in this equation. One of those variables is the wind resistance of the different line diameters. The theory is that a thinner line will have less wind resistance.

The reality is that there are very few casters with enough skill to notice the difference in wind resistance from the line diameter.

For most of us to cast farther in the wind, the primary influences are tight loops, line speed, trajectory, and line mass.

A simple test is get a 3 wt and an 8 wt rod/line and go out in the wind and see which one you can cast farther. For me, it will be the 8 wt hands down.

Back to the original question - yes, you need a new toy.

Someone after my own heart! A physicist! Two points to consider. I would suggest that momentum would be a better indicator for wind punching. Momentum is simply the movement of mass, in this case the fly line. It is mathematically defined as the product of mass and velocity. It actually supports what your suggesting better than energy. A smaller weight line will, obviously, have less mass, but given a fast action rod be able to generate higher velocities. Thus, while a 3 weight can theoretically travel faster than an 8 weight, its mass is so much lower than an 8 wt it would have less momentum, and thus less ability to fight the momentum of the wind. However, a 5 weight can be cast fast enough to overcome the advantages of the 8 wt's mass.

Ahh, if only it were that simple. As you point out, the skill of the caster plays far more of a role. If the 3 wt I had was a very fast action sage or winston (or whatever) and the 8 wt you had was one of the old fiberglass or bamboo, you would probably still be able to outcast me given your superior casting (frankly, I am not the greatest fly caster). I am sure though that you would cast the 3 wt farther than the 8 wt, though not having nearly so much fun not doing it.

So, yes, a person in the market for a new rod has lots of test driving to do. Bummer.

I agree with Rex - heavier rod and heavier line for big bugs and windy condtions.

But there is more to it than that - casting technique plays a huge role!
Wind is you friend - tight loops to drive fly into the wind.
Open loops for following wind and let it sail with the wind.
Quartering winds - back casts - back hand casts - anything to keep from wearing the fly in your ear lobe.

Tight lines and having fun is the name of the game!

when it comes to casting, Rex knows-p-

Thanks! Need to work more on my casting. Also nice to have 2 setup my 8/9 wt for bass and th 5 for brimm & trout.

Yes, this is the most important part of this thread, having the equipment that available to help you enjoy fishing.

Zedd, do you know the source for this quote? I remember it but I don't remember which book Lefty put it in. I'd like to look and see what he actually says about it. From memory, I think Lefty was talking about underlining a rod in windy conditions for long distance casts.

If that is the case, then we should be able to take one rod and two lines of the same taper, but different wt's and see which one can be cast the furthest.

(Note; for those of you wondering about underlining a rod. The wt of a fly line is based on the physical weight of the first 30 feet of line. Add about 10 feet of line in the air and you've increased about one line size of wt. So, 50 feet of 3 wt line will weigh about the same as 30 feet of 5 wt line. But, this ia a very rough estimate.)

So, I tried it. I have a 3 wt GPX line and a 5 wt GPX line. I went out and cast both lines on the same 5 wt TFO Pro series 8' 6" rod. (One of my student rods and it happened to be on the desk this afternoon.) Conditions were very wet grass (1.5 inches of rain today), and no wind. OK, this started as a wind discussion, but I can't control the wind.

I started with the 5 wt line and placed a marker at the end of the fly line. I did not use the end of the leader, because I did not want to change the leaders to be consistant on both lines. The marker was moved to mark the longest cast, but I did not measure the actual distance.

I made several casts with the 5 wt line and then put a 3 wt line on the same rod, but both lines were SA GPX WF tapers. Not exactly a controlled test, but it should be a reasonable comparison.

Bottom line, my best cast with the 3 wt was at least 5 feet short of the 5wt's distance.

Lefty may be able to cast a lighter wt line farther than a heavier line, but I do not have the skill to do it.

Gene, I wish, but the more I learn about casting, the more I realize that I do not know. I just hope I am able to state it correctly when I post about casting. I also hope that some of this is helpful to somebody.

Rex- That is an interesting experiment. I am quite curious to see if you find a difference between the 3 wt and 5 wt given windy conditions.

Re the lefty quote, I heard him say this at a talk he gave. I do believe he said this in a fly-fishing magazine dated about 1998 (which I gave to my sister, i'll try to find it).

For a purely intellectual exercise,I have included here a hatofmichigan link to a series of articles published by an engineer named Bob Bolton. He gives a velocity for an 8 wt line of 65.6 ft/sec. Does this sound about right? This would give a momentum of about 2. For a 5 wt line to match the momentum of the 8 wt a 5 wt line would have to have a velocity of about 99 ft/sec; a difference of 34 f/s, about 50% faster. All that being said, there are at least two main variables that will affect the discussion regarding line wt for high wind; the affect the wind will have on the different fly line widths, and the variable momentum associated with changes in the wind speed.

I am beginning to be swayed by your reasoning regarding it would take a skilled caster to notice a difference. I don't know if the decrease in line diameter will give a 5 wt line that much more an advantage. Any thoughts?