Howdy ya'll! Been a while since I've posted. I've been doing some research lately on stocking F1 Largemouth bass since we're planning on stocking out 3-4 acre tank with some fish in the near future. We've stocked it with baitfish which I believe will have been in there over a year, so now we need the game fish! In my research, I've come across some debate on F1's having an outbreeding depression...does anyone have any experience or insight on this?

In reality, it hardly matters one whit. The bass in a pond will perform more according to the habitat, water quality and food supply and their genetic makeup really only comes into play when all else is near perfection.

If the actual "tiger Bass" which is a very good marketing name come up with by American Sportfish in Alabama, it is a well bred fish and will perform well given the proper circumstances.

In my breeding of largemouth bass over the years I've worked more in the direction of selecting for an easy to catch fish than a huge fish nobody can catch. "Catchability" being a well documented trait in fish that can be selected for or against by breeding. Concentrating on breeding for behavior as much as for ultimate size results in a fishery where the bass are more easily caught by traditional hoodk and line methods.

The differences in the resulting fishery from outbred F1, pure line southern strain, pure line northern strain, or even F2, and Fx genrations will be miniscule all else being the same.

For me, it sounds like your pond is more then ready for bass and any bass that goes in it will perform well.

I wouldn't loose any sleep or fishing about it. I've had the cross in my ponds for many years and very much recommend them. If you are concerned, you can always stock a few pure northern and pure Floridas along with the cross.

Over the years, I've dedicated ponds to pure Floridas, pure northern, and the cross. May not be scientific, but I will never have a pond again dedicated to pure Floridas. Put a few in with cross and native, yes, but never straight Floridas. The catchability factor and what I call conditioning is very real in my ponds...and the pure Florida is the least catchable and most easily conditioned bass.

If there is outbreeding depression, the effect isn't noticable in my ponds...but catchability differences are very obvious.

Thanks for the help so far guys. I do think I will probably go ahead and pull the trigger on stocking the F1s. However, my next question is, who should I go with for stocking? I'm thinking Texas Pro Lake Management because its the closest place to my property, but I'm open to other suggestions as well if you have any...

I don't know those guys, but nothing in that name raises any red flags in my mind....

You might want to get a referrence unless its is somebody you already know and trust.

If they are selling "tiger bass" or "gorilla bass" those are trade names associated with largemouth bass fingerlings from American Sportfish Hatchery in Alabama. Otherwise the fish could be a similar strain or cross from some other hatchery.

There are many good hatcheries and fish suppliers about. I'd ask where the fish are coming from. An honest dealer will tell you.

Your gonna have fun.....

Our experience is similar to FishBreeders in general and especially in small ponds, say less than 5 acres.

But in larger ponds and lakes we believe there is true value in having stocked a pure strain to begin with. We have observed long-term trophy bass production in lakes stocked with true Florida bass. These fish and their offspring are marketable (by harvesting cull fish via electrofishing and reselling to clientele who need Florida genetics) due to the limited availability of advanced true Florida bass.

Also we have observed ponds where true northern bass have been stocked and genetic integrity maintained over time. In these circumstances the northern bass maintain an assertive nature and decent growth potential. These fish are less marketable as cull fish in advanced sizes because they are more readily available.

However, we have produced and marketed the F1 cross by crossing these two subspecies, and been disappointed in most of the results. So by taking into account the scientific data and our own experiences, we have decided to discontinue the marketing of these fish. Just to keep it simple really.

As far as catchability goes, it is up to the fisherman to learn how to catch the fish and to decide the level of difficulty that he wants before deciding on bass to be stocked.

In small ponds, the limiting factors on growth are often not genetic barriers, but other conditions, as Brett describes. There are pros and cons to consider for sure.

k

Overton, thanks for your advice and insight on the issue. Another bit of information I've come across is that most of the Texas fish stocking companies get there bass from Arkansas. Why is that and do ya'll? One other thing to note, is catchability affected by what percentage a bass in northern or Florida? I've heard that most Northerns these days are not TRULY purebred northern but all have a significant percentage of Florida in their genes...

Overton hatches his pure DNA certified Florida LMB at his fish farm in Buffalo Texas.
http://www.overtonfisheries.com/Genetics/FloridaStrainLargemouthBass/tabid/392/Default.aspx

Ok, after doing heavy research I think I've got a plan. From what I understand the concern with the Tiger/F1 LMB is that because of its unique genetic makeup, eventually breeding between itself in a limited environment will create and inferior fish. However, couldn't this be said of all strains such that if I stocked all 100% Floridas or all 100% Northerns, I'm going to eventually have an inferior fish because on inbreeding? Thus, my conclusion for my pond is to stock 50% T1, 25% Northern, and 25% Florida so that I can minimize outbreeding depression and maximize hybrid vigor. Thoughts?

That's what I've done....and it works for me.

Todd is who I iuse to get all my fish. He place is awesome!!

Oh NO! The secrets out....fish come from Arkansas.

Some do. Most of the minnows, like shiners and fatheads do. All the grass carp, most of the catfish, all the hybrid stripers, and a lot of the others. Or from Alabama, or other state than Texas. Surpisingly, though, most of the hatcheries in Texas produce thier own, and somewhat unique to thier hatchery, strains of largemouth bass. And take pride in doing so, as well they should.

Nobody I know of produces threadfin shad in Arkansas, either.

Or blue catfish (a far superior fish to the more common channel catfish).

So, always good to ask where your fish came from, an honest dealer will tell you which he bought and which he produced himself.

I've only heard good things about Todd Overton, and am familiar with the hatchery as I knew the former owners well.

Inbreeding depression is something really over a very long period of time and usually assocaited with larger, albeit landlocked bodies of water.

In some very large reservoirs (over 500 acres) I've stocked over the years I have used a wide genetic base with respect to the bass stocked, to begin with. This to include pure Florida strain as well as what I call "Fx" (more than 2 filial generations distant) or "mostly Flroida" intergrades. As that is what does best around here over a long time frame (20+ years).

Its been long enough since the first Florida bass were stocked here (along the Gulf Coast) that we now know "genetic drift" over time tends to drive the genetics in the direction of "pure Flroida" and away from "pure Northern" strains. This even though the original fish in the area were Northern strain.

Anywhere the Florida strain has been successfully introduced,, in the sub tropical areas, it has taken over. The opposite is true as you go further North, which to continue seeing the gnetic influence of the Florida strain, they must be frequently reintroduced.

Pretty deep (pun not intended) for the stocking of a farm pond.