Hey Z520:

That's a great idea. Maybe the guys at BC could show the sample payback as it relates to real numbers.

Maybe average entries for each division is a good place to start.

2011 Season Average entries from BC website:

North Division: 193
Central: 165
South: 190
East: 211

I think the model in the survey is for 250 entries. What would the model be for the numbers shown above? That would be very interesting

I think BB2Fan may have hit the nail on the head....guaranteed payouts. A $20k payout for 1st place is great with a full field, but $20k is a killer for the rest of the guys when the field is smaller than projected, as it tends to be nowadays.
I fished a tournament a couple of years ago at Lewisville that had guaranteed first place money and had a smaller than expected field. Our buddy mr. Rose 'decided the night before to fish' the team tourney (as a single,naturally) and stole the guaranteed $5000 first place. The other places got nothing. Second place team had an honest awesome sack and got nada, which caused a big stink.
All this can be avoided by pegging ALL places to a percentage and forgetting the headline grabbing guaranteed purses.

I agree with Joebass2. The best way to do this is to pay out each place as a percentage and adjust the number of places to the number of people competing in the tournament. Its pretty easy to setup a program or spreadsheet to calculate this quickly. They could then advertise the payout for a 200 boat turnout if they want to be aggressive or a 175 boat turnout if they want to be conservative based on the numbers above.

Amen.

Why don't all of the tournaments advertise the payouts for each of several participation levels.

Almost all of them advertise the payout based on a number of entries that has not been attained in years....what is with that?

How about a realistic expectation of payout for 100, 150, and 200? I think more entries would result and less fishermen would be confused by the lower money awarded at weigh-in.

Without a realistic payback model, we don't have a clue what the money will be at most events.

Exactly what I've been thinking, you are presented with a payout with a certain number of entries of which you never reach (recently)and you have no idea what the adjusted payout is.

Set the payout at a lower number of entries to increase the money awarded in the advertisement, then if you have more entries than expected you can adjust payout from there.

I'm not a tournament director or someone who is always in the money, as a matter of fact I'm still in the RED with this sport. But I do feel there has to be a better payout system than what's currently being used, JMO..

With the payback posted for 250 boats payback the schedule is kinda misleading, except for the $20K first place. Really it's a pyramid scheme since most of us are NOT fishing for 1st place. We would just like to get a check and get our tournament money'S back. (Not just the entry fee!) It's not the "semi-pro's", (they always want the money top loaded), that keeps these tournaments in business. It's us "weekend warriors" that pay the checks! Yes, I was fortunate to win a boat with Bass Champs, but that was a long time ago and realistically I now fish tournaments for a CHECK. (If I get lucky and win then it's great!) Top loaded paybacks only discourages the weekend warrior support. Eventually they quit if they don't win enough money to keep fishing. Remember they don't do this for a living so they are looking to make a paycheck for the next tournament. There should be a decent payback for 1st and double the entry for last place. 1 to 7 minimum payback with a 1 to 5 ratio even better for bottom checks. BassChamps does a good job paying to 30 places but could probably afford to go 5 more places if they reduced the top place from 20K to 15K.
Tournament fishing finances is really hitting the weekend guy hard. We don't have the sponsor support to pay for the expenses. Also, look at BassNBucks numbers. They have been steadily declining because most people don't expect to hit the top 3 and get tired of supporting those that do. BassChamps AND BassNbucks entries have been both steadily declining due to the economy and to stay in business ALL Tournaments will have to ADJUST and make changes accordingly. The old days are gone due to the high fuel prices, boat prices, Entry fee's and all the other increases in tournament fishing. My Partner (and other's) are now selectively picking tournament circuits because we can't afford fish them all anymore.

Just to set the record straight, I keep reading Bass Champs Payback is based of 250 entries, below is off of Bass Champs web site. Note it is based on 200 entries

Sample Payback - 200 Teams
$280 Entry Fee per Team

1st....................$20,000 cash
2nd.....................$5,000 cash
3rd......................$3,000 cash
4th......................$2,000 cash
5th......................$1,200 cash
6th......................$1,090 cash
7th......................$1,080 cash
8th......................$1,070 cash
9th......................$1,060 cash
10th....................$1,050 cash
11th....................$1,040 cash
12th....................$1,030 cash
13th....................$1,020 cash
14th....................$1,010 cash
15th....................$1,000 cash
16th.......................$900 cash
17th.......................$800 cash
18th.......................$800 cash
19th.......................$800 cash
20th.......................$600 cash
21st.......................$600 cash
22nd.......................$600 cash
23rd.......................$600 cash
24th.......................$600 cash
25th.......................$600 cash
26th.......................$600 cash
27th.......................$600 cash

Big Bass.............$1,000 cash

Good payout structure. But I just dot see any reason for it to pay ou past 15th place

For future reference: Anglers can always go to http://www.basschamps.com and see actual paybacks related to a specific level of entries by clicking the "results" tab on the top of our website. If you would like to see previous year paybacks, simply click the drop down menu on the results page and chose the year you are interested in.


To make your search a little quicker here are some direct links to a few tournaments in 2011 with a range of entries.

Payback with approximately 150 entries: http://www.basschamps.com/basschamps/res...arSelected=2011

Payback with approximately 175 entries: http://www.basschamps.com/basschamps/res...arSelected=2011

Payback with approximately 200 entries: http://www.basschamps.com/basschamps/res...arSelected=2011

Payback with approximately 250 entries: http://www.basschamps.com/basschamps/res...arSelected=2011

Payback with approximately 300 entries: http://www.basschamps.com/basschamps/res...arSelected=2007

Here are the actual # of entries for all 20 regular season tournaments in 2011. (5 in each region)

Tournament # - Entries

#1 205
#2 232
#3 185
#4 201
#5 238
#6 173
#7 247
#8 210
#9 214
#10 164
#11 196
#12 200
#13 179
#14 158
#15 171
#16 159
#17 149
#18 178
#19 175
#20 170

Total 3804

Average # 190.2

I am looking forward to my 1st year in BC.... I have voted in both polls and enjoy the fact that BC has its ears to the ground.

Hopefully I can cash one of those participation based 1st place checks..

Thanks for the post, BC. Very helpful.

I, too, look forward to cashing one of those participation based 1st place checks.

Winner take all

Yes thanks for the breakdown for the various entries BC, Ive fished your trail for two years now and say you run a class act.

However, I tend to agree with Bigron 119 about increasing the payout amount in the lower place finishers, This could be done just like fishkiller said by not paying as far down.

And no I'm not trying to apply the redistribution of wealth theory, it would just cover a anglers cost better.

Here are the results of the survey as of 11/29 @ 8:30 AM. The participants that are not Bass Champs anglers have been filtered out of the results below.

interesting response to your poll. its close between the ones that like the payout and the ones do not. i know 100% will never be totally happy but you would kind of hope you get closer to 70% then 50%. and the split between the 2 other payouts is so close as well. tough call on that one.