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Re: Wellman not fishing the Classic
[Re: fouzman]
#6659624
09/22/11 02:09 PM
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Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 316
chunk&wind
Angler
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Angler
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 316 |
I absolutely can NOT understand how you think Ken A. and it scares me to know that there are people in the bass fishing community that believe that just because your plan to cheat didn't work out that it should be viewed as anything less than cheating......Really?
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Re: Wellman not fishing the Classic
[Re: chunk&wind]
#6659762
09/22/11 02:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 50,396
fouzman
Methuselah
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Methuselah
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 50,396 |
chunk, Ken is a close personal friend of mine and I can assure you that he would NEVER cheat or attempt to. Ken is also a man of Faith, sounds like he was trying to give Wellman the benefit of the doubt, which would be his nature, fwiw.
Coincidence is His way of remaining anonymous.
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Re: Wellman not fishing the Classic
[Re: chunk&wind]
#6659765
09/22/11 02:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,643
WaterLogged
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,643 |
Cheating = Rule violation Attemp to cheat = Rule violation
It dont matter if he got away with it or not to determine his penalty, Its the fact that its the same rule violation that and the penalty should be the same whether he did it or attempted to do it.
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Re: Wellman not fishing the Classic
[Re: chunk&wind]
#6659778
09/22/11 02:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 566
David Gillham
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 566 |
This really isnt as complicated as they have made it. I see no grey area. Rules are there for this reason. Its very frustrating to see a dark cloud over our sport at any level but when its this high up the impact is greater over the sport. By the agreement to "not fishing the Classic" it clearly indicates that someone must think a rule violation occured. Dont stop here. If they do there will always be some distrust which probably will never be removed. 1. Take away Open win. All money returned. 2. Second place gets title and classic birth if all qualifications are meet. 3. Wellman to receive some type of ban. I dont think time frame is that important. This matter will take care of itself. I dont see any other way to clear this matter up. The field needs this victory!!!!!
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Re: Wellman not fishing the Classic
[Re: fouzman]
#6659792
09/22/11 02:49 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,770
Ken A.
Groovy
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Groovy
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,770 |
chunk, Ken is a close personal friend of mine and I can assure you that he would NEVER cheat or attempt to. Ken is also a man of Faith, sounds like he was trying to give Wellman the benefit of the doubt, which would be his nature, fwiw. Thanks for the clarification Chris... While I do not condone the actions of Wellman, you do have to give him the benefit. He says he was joking. I don't believe he was but we will never know. btw Chunk, My partner and I admitted to having one too many fish in our livewell in a pretty sizable tourney two years ago and took a zero AFTER my partner had passed the polygraph. We were about to accept the First Place check... That's why Cameron now calls me, "SIXFISH"
Last edited by Ken A.; 09/22/11 02:53 PM.
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Re: Wellman not fishing the Classic
[Re: fouzman]
#6659812
09/22/11 02:53 PM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,718
The Hag
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 6,718 |
chunk, Ken is a close personal friend of mine and I can assure you that he would NEVER cheat or attempt to. Ken is also a man of Faith, sounds like he was trying to give Wellman the benefit of the doubt, which would be his nature, fwiw. +1 Ken A. is definitely a man of faith that I can also see giving anyone the benefit of the doubt. It's not up to us to be the judge. There's a much higher power that will do that in the end. After talking to Joe Stois, he is relieved this matter was finally addressed by BASS and can go about his life now. He received a ton of support from his fellow fishermen and really appreciated all those that stood by him. I too want to thank all those that stood by him. He's a very honest man. Now it's time to get back to the positives of the industry and go fishing!!
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Re: Wellman not fishing the Classic
[Re: WaterLogged]
#6660144
09/22/11 04:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,303
JD/76708
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,303 |
Cheating = Rule violation Attemp to cheat = Rule violation
It dont matter if he got away with it or not to determine his penalty, Its the fact that its the same rule violation that and the penalty should be the same whether he did it or attempted to do it. +1 Wow, SixFish, way to man up and take that one on the chin... ..and tell Cameron to grow up.. 
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Re: Wellman not fishing the Classic
[Re: JD/76708]
#6660150
09/22/11 04:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 50,396
fouzman
Methuselah
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Methuselah
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 50,396 |
Guys, I'd sure like to keep this going until B.A.S.S. does the right thing, once and for all 
Coincidence is His way of remaining anonymous.
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Re: Wellman not fishing the Classic
[Re: fouzman]
#6660384
09/22/11 05:11 PM
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 298
ChrisTexan
Angler
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Angler
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 298 |
Just a side-thought on the "attempting" vs "actual" cheating dialogue... not to bring up the deadhorse specifically, but more generally: If someone attempted to stuff lead weights down a fish's throat, stuck it in the livewell, goes to weigh-in, and takes their weight (whatever it might be and whatever place it might be is irrelevant)... and then after draining the livewells finds all the weights at the bottom that fish regurgitated prior to the weigh-in... They attempted to cheat, the fish (unlike the problem of "what if" with a co-angler, there isn't any judgment call of "was he serious or not" with this scenario) didn't cooperate with the cheating, does this mean the penalty if he's turned in later by someone who camera-phone-recorded him doing so (to eliminate he-said-she-said scenarios), should be less because he "attempted, but failed" to cheat? If the fish had not spit out the weights, and he won, it clearly would have been cheating, however just because the result was not affected by the attempt, the attempt still constitutes cheating.
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Re: Wellman not fishing the Classic
[Re: Fishspanker]
#6660502
09/22/11 05:40 PM
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,882
Tracker Tim
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,882 |
Polygraph accuracy = Robby Rose Polygraph did its job. You need to place blame with the tournament directors that were not swift to act.
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Re: Wellman not fishing the Classic
[Re: ChrisTexan]
#6662049
09/22/11 11:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,643
WaterLogged
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,643 |
Just a side-thought on the "attempting" vs "actual" cheating dialogue... not to bring up the deadhorse specifically, but more generally: If someone attempted to stuff lead weights down a fish's throat, stuck it in the livewell, goes to weigh-in, and takes their weight (whatever it might be and whatever place it might be is irrelevant)... and then after draining the livewells finds all the weights at the bottom that fish regurgitated prior to the weigh-in... They attempted to cheat, the fish (unlike the problem of "what if" with a co-angler, there isn't any judgment call of "was he serious or not" with this scenario) didn't cooperate with the cheating, does this mean the penalty if he's turned in later by someone who camera-phone-recorded him doing so (to eliminate he-said-she-said scenarios), should be less because he "attempted, but failed" to cheat? If the fish had not spit out the weights, and he won, it clearly would have been cheating, however just because the result was not affected by the attempt, the attempt still constitutes cheating. 1st thought - The person who would do this is too not real bright and dont deserve to fish. Actually, If you attempted to stuff a fish with a weight and there was a way to prove you tried to do this, its a Rule Violation, its an attempt to cheat, which is the same violation for cheating. If you are a member and bash BASS in an open magazine, its a Rule Violation and they can ban you, and it has happened. It has happened with FLW too, and it doesnt affect any tournament outcome.......If you can get banned for badmouthing, I would think stuffing a fish or trying to purchase 1 is far worse. Attempted but failed or Attempted and succeeded, Same thing, Attempted and that is reason to Ban.
Last edited by WaterLogged; 09/23/11 12:01 AM.
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Re: Wellman not fishing the Classic
[Re: Tony Clark @ Lake Fork]
#6662211
09/23/11 12:50 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 862
billclay
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 862 |
Does this mean KJ gets to fish the Classic???
I like Kelly Jordan, and I hope he gets to fish the Classic. I am just glad Wellman isn't going to be fishing the Red River. He gave BASS and those of us that spend our time chasing bass a black eye. We may never know what went on in the middle of Lake Erie. It may not have been wrong, but it was definately not acceptable.
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Re: Wellman not fishing the Classic
[Re: friscomatt]
#6688676
10/01/11 01:46 AM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,006
Steve187 (A.K.A. GETFISHED )
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 2,006 |
Not trying to beat a dead horse but I've been gone a few days and wanted to toss in my .02. I hope ya'll don't mind.
Since when does BASS start negotiating with anglers in this manner? It smells ! Apparently special terms apply to some anglers or situations instead of just a consistent application of the rules. It smells ! Nate should have never agreed to let BASS proceed with this sham to save face. He simply helped BASS continue to play the fool. AS a side note I expect Wellman is finished.
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Re: Wellman not fishing the Classic
[Re: Steve187 (A.K.A. GETFISHED )]
#6689433
10/01/11 11:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 15,307
Fishspanker
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 15,307 |
If he went through discussing the plan to do it in more than just a passing light comment then that to me is the same as actually doing it. I could see a few people saying something like, "I would give a thousand dollars to have that fish right now." By all accounts Nate went way farther than that.
What is Mr. Stois supposed to do beyond what he did in the situation? Say he decides to go along with Wellman just so the act actually occurs. Then another angler sees some monkey business and turns them both in. Try to explain your way out of that by saying, "I did it to try to help catch Nate....."
Fishing must have very high ethics. When you breach those as severely as Nate did then there should be more stern consequences.
The Sheep who only fears the Wolf is eaten by the Shepherd.
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