Ok, I went fishing for redfish last weekend with a 7wt BVK and 8wt reel with 8wt WF line. I was throwing shrimp imitation lures. There was a little wind blowing but not bad.
I have been using this same set up while bass fishing in the river tossing poppers and wooly boogers casting with good accuracy.
The problem that I had was getting any distance out of the larger flies with consistancy,

Advice is appreciated.


Thanks,
Robert

No two ways about it, get some casting instruction. In the meantime, Google up Lefty Kreh videos and browse Sexyloops website for tips.

But there's no substitute for someone watching you cast and giving instant feedback. That's my take.

Hi Robert,

This is just a guess, but with overlining the 7wt and using large bulky flies you maybe have overlined the rod too much. Try a 7wt line and see how it does. Also are/can you double haul?

I agree with Shepherd on the double haul, if you do not know how it would be a wise thing to learn. Once you do learn the hauling technique it is something you will use often.

Double haul required knowledge for Gulf Coast flats.
If you get casting instructions make sure it's a salt water instructor that has salt water experience.
The wind is your friend or it can eat your lunch!

Ditto to George's comments. Also, if you're using a "Bass Bug" line, with that fat and short front taper you might consider switching to a line with a longer and thinner taper. Not necessarily a strong recommendation since its the only one I have used, but Orvis (and probably everyone else nowadays) has a "redfish" taper line.

Wind casting tips:
DRIVE a tight double hauled loop INTO the wind.
OPEN the loop when casting WITH the wind and let it �sail� for distance.
Learn to handle QUARTERING winds or you will wear the fly in your ear lobe.
Ask me how I know!!!

I don't know George; in my case I thought having a baby blue crab impalling the earpiece of my sunglasses looked kinda cool...when my eyes stopped watering....

I appreciate all of the replies. Found a friend who fishes the coast with the fly fishing group out of San Antonio. I'm going to let him give me some instruction.

Quick question for you -- Are you fairly new to fly fishing? Who suggested that you overline the rod? -- Did you intend to use the rod for close in accurate casts?

The reason I ask is because many suggest to new casters that buy fast action rods (like the BVK) to overline so they can "feel" the rod load. But by overlining you turn a fast action rod into a moderate action rod (it will bend lower in the rod). For short accurate casts overlining does definitely help load the rod with less line out, but for distance will actually hurt you more than help. It then becomes more physical work to push more line out.

Double hauling for distance is more about the line speed than loading the rod - now don't get me wrong because the rod load is very important because that is where the energy is stored - it is about optimizing both speed and load. A fast action rod will produce faster line speeds than a moderate action rod.

-- Rex or any other CCI - please let me know if I am thinking this through correctly.

With all due respects to Mr. Shepherd and Rex and other CCI buddies, IMO this question should be addressed by a physicist.

FLY LINE SELECTION

FLYCASTING SYSEMS
By Bill Nash FLYCASTING SYSTEMS c1996

�Except for a double taper line the AFTMA line number, for the rated loading, and the rod number will not be the same.

Line manufacturers numbering is based upon the weight of the first 30 ft of line.
The rod, however, must be designed to cast 45 or more ft of a double taper line.
Therefore it will not be fully loaded by lines of different designs such as Weight Forward, Triangle Taper, or Shooting Tapers, even though the line has the same number as the rod. Only the weight of the first thirty feet will be the same, the total line weight (of 45 or more feet), will be less, because most of the belly weight of a Double Taper will be missing. To compensate for this the rod should be �over lined� in order to match the casting weight of a Double Taper line (some will argue that in either case casting 30 ft of line will load the rod the same but they forget that the line in the guides is also part of the load)�
Note:
Bill Nash, was a retired physicist that passed away a couple of years ago.
Bill was known as the West Coast guru that influenced many FFF Hall of famers and Certified Casting Instructors, such as Dan Blanton and others.

George -- Pertaining to line grains etc,

Yes there can be a great variation between manufacturers and line designs as far as wt in 1st 45'.

The technology and design of fly rods has come a very long way in just a few short years and rods are being designed by experienced anglers that put them to the test before releasing them. I seriously doubt they design and test using one line wt heavier then they are designing for or only with DT lines.

I have seen this debate many, many times over the past 12 years and I am sure it will never be resolved. My observations, though have been that experienced casters with casting rhythms suited for fast action rods stay with the line wt the fly rod was designed for. Casters with slower rhythms (better suited to medium action or med-fast) using fast rods tend to overline. In reality they are turning a fast action rod into a medium or medium fast action rod.

I am not saying that there are not rods, situations or types of flies being fished where overlining is an advantage, but in the specific case of the question here of achieving distance and accuracy, overlining may be a hindrance. Of course this is hard to tell without actually observing the casting style. -- Best and quickest solution would be to work with a casting instructor.

I have followed the 8wt shoot out for many years -- always a good read and a good way to learn how the "pros" grade rod performance -- incidentally the BVK did very well.

8 wt Shoot Out 2011

Gee, I go fishing for a couple of days and this is the question that is waiting for me??? I hate talking about up lining rods because I�m usually accused of being a complete idiot who knows nothing about casting whenever I do comment on it. So, before you read any further, you�ve been warned that some folks will not agree with my comments.

As George mentioned, the weight designation of a fly line is determined by physically weighing the first 30 feet of the line. It is more or less an industry standard system, but there are some of half weight heavier lines that cloud the water some what and all the different line tapers cloud it some more. But generally one manufacturer�s standard 3 wt line will be similar to another manufacturer�s standard 3 wt line.

However, there is no industry standard way to designate the weight of a fly rod. It is a subjective decision by the manufacturer of what size line they think the rod casts best. So, there can be variations between rod brands, one brand might label a rod a 5 wt, but another manufacturer might label a similar rod a 4 wt or a 6 wt rod. So, if you put a different line wt than the number listed on the rod, who�s to say that you have the wrong line on it?

To make this discussion even less clear, consider that the line size is based on the first 30 feet of line. So, if you are carrying 50 feet of 5 wt fly line in the air during your cast, you are not putting a 5 wt line�s worth of weight on the rod during the cast, you are putting closer to a 7 wt line�s worth of weight on the rod. The general rule of thumb is that for every additional 10 feet of line in the air you go up about a line wt size of actual line weight. Is this accurate, probably not, but the principle is true � the more line you carry in the air, the more weight you are putting on the rod during the cast. So, what does this mean? It means that fly rods are designed to handle a range of fly lines. They have to be able to handle a range of line wt�s because the force on the rod changes throughout the cast. Is it possible to over line and a put too heavy of a fly line on a rod? Yes, of course it is. My experience has been that some rod models can handle a wider range of fly lines than other rods and you�ll notice a decrease in rod performance and general casting difficulty when the line gets too heavy. Unless of course you way over do it and then you�ll get to find out how well the warranty works.

If we continue to muddy the waters, how you cast also affects how much you can and even should vary the line wt�s to be cast. Do you shoot a lot of line or do you carry a lot of line when casting? If you shoot line, then using a short heavy headed fly line works great, but if you like to carry 50 or 60 feet of line in the air, then a lighter, longer headed fly line may work better for you.




This type of statement is often made, but I don�t fully agree with it. You can bend it quicker, but I don�t think you can change the action of a fly rod by changing the line. If you up line one size and start a cast with ~30 ft of line, that rod will cast basically the same as if you started the cast with the rated line and ~40 ft of line, the action will be the same. You can affect how much line is needed to load the rod, but I don�t think you can change the action of the rod by up lining one line size.

With that said, I do up line my student rods one size. Most of my student rods are 5 wt rods with 6 wt lines. Why? My beginner classes start casting with only about 20 feet of line out of the rod tip. The heavier line allows the rod to load and cast as if they were casting 30 feet of the rated line, but at a shorter, easier to manage line length.

My personal opinion of up lining is that it can be a valuable tool when fishing. An example is that I usually up line when bass fishing where I�ll be casting to the shore from a boat. That is a situation where you are making 30 to 40 ft casts or shorter with large, heavy flies. So, a heavier line helps load the rod at short distances and the heavier line helps carry the heavier fly. I will also often up line when I will be casting into the wind. I like a heavier line in the wind, but some folks like a lighter line in the wind. Up lining can also work very well with distance casting. The only time I�ve cast 100 ft with a tape measure laid out was with a 6 wt TFO Axiom and a 7 wt SA MED line, which has a very long head. I probably carried about 60 ft of line and shot the rest of the distance, but the rod had no problem with the heavier line.

Another important element to consider when up lining is the rod itself. Some rods seem to handle and cast well with a wider range of line wt sizes than other rods. As mentioned, I think the Axiom handles up lining one or even two line sizes without impacting its performance. But, I do not like the way the TiCr casts when up lined. The TiCr is a tip action rod and I like it best at its rated line size.

I have an 8 wt BVK rod and I�ve been switching between an 8 wt line and a 9 wt line. I don�t know which line I like better on the rod. The 8 wt line has a shorter head and the 9 wt a medium length head, so it not an even comparison, but the BVK handles the heavier 9 wt line just fine. I don�t think up lining the BVK one line size should cause any serious problems.



I agree with this, the double haul increases the line speed and that is a good thing. Increased line speed helps increase distance and it cuts through the wind better. But the double haul is good for more than just distance. It helps �share the load� between both hands and it makes any cast much more effortless. It is a great skill to learn.

Back the original post after all of my ramble.



Were you trying to cast shrimp lures or shrimp flies? Most lures will be too heavy to cast with an 8 wt line. If you�ve been casting this setup OK with other flies, then I�d tend to think that you were trying to cast too heavy of a fly.

Rex

Hill, I appreciaite your thoughtful reply. I was concerned that my response would set off the age-old controversy about matching fly rod number to line weight designation.
I am familiar with the 8 wt Shoot Out 2011

There has been so much marketing hype the past few years about fly lines that �buyer beware� approach is required. I don�t buy into any of that stuff having wasted too much money in the past purchasing �specialized� lines. I only purchase low cost �standard� tapers and shorten front taper if needed or cut and splice � or �mix and match�.

I wish all fly rod as well as line manufacturers would rate their products in grains, such as TFO has done on their Mini-Mags.

I am a �load and shoot� caster � don�t catch many fish with fly line in the air.
If you are a false caster the whole equation changes.

Fly rod manufactures share an equal blame IMO .
My TFO 4 wt Axiom up-lined with a 6 wt line has the same �feel� to me as BVK 5 wt uplined with a 6wt line. I can�t tell any difference in the fly rods other than weight.

Note that I use the term up-line rather that over-line.
Accuracy is much more important than distance for me, even tho most of my fish are ten feet farther than I can cast!