Bobby (Kestrel), am I reading your info to say that your product places waypoints or trails on top of the current map (such as Navionics HotMaps) and these show these old stream beds, etc? I'm curious to how much they clutter the screen. Can they be turned on and off if they do clutter? Are the trails permanent or do they clear like boat trails do after a certain interval? It would be helpful if you could post a screen shot from a unit to show just how it looks. Thanks.

CedarCreekWoody

Post#1:

You are absolutely correct in that good contour information is the number one requirement for a good bass fisherman to have accurate contour information. GPS Lake Maps recognizes this and in no way tries to replace it but it does make it possible to see both contours and creeks at the same time.

Post #2:

Another great question.

The trails and waypoints that GPS Lake Maps adds is no different than the ones you make everytime you go fishing. Just like any of your existing trails they can certainly be turned on and off as desires.

As far as clutter goes, its no different that any trail you are currently using.

Do they clear?: NO, unless you inadvertently change them to ACTIVE rather than INACTIVE.

Screen shots: I'll be happy to send you as many screen shots as you like, but let's face it, it depends on how close you zoom in with your unit. A long zoom and you see lots of lines. Close zooms and you may only see one.

Thanks for the inquiry.

Bobby

One concern that I have is that for large lakes, the number of trail points and waypoints added by GPS Lake Maps could be huge and significantly reduce the finite number of trails and waypoints available (the total number available depends on the individual unit's specifications). Unlike contour lines which are read from the map card, trails and waypoints are stored in the unit's memory. Seems like it would be quite easy to deplete the number available, especially if several GPS Lake Maps were loaded.

Can you comment on this aspect?

Also, IMHO screen shots would be of little use. Those would just depict where you have placed the trails and waypoints on the map. To me the real proof of the functionality of the GPS Lake Maps product is the ability to do some on the water comparisons to the real world.

Unlike an earlier poster, I don't consider the price trivial to the point of "rolling the dice" by purchasing an unknown commodity.

C.

C.

Your insite is very good. I can tell that you are above average in your understanding of a GPS units limitations.

Please see: http://www.shockwaverods.com/cautions-and-troubleshooting

"Rolling the dice":

Nothing is proven until it's proven; especially on the internet. Because of our 'on the water' expenience we have confidence and are convienced that you will be also.

Bobby

Bobby, thanks for the response. I also had the concerns about the limited number of waypoints, but after reading that you use "trails" rather than waypoints that eased my concern (I have a recent HB unit with 50,000 capability as I recall). I also like that your product lays on top of my HotMap, it doesn't replace it. It would supply a lot of the info that is no longer available. I wasn't aware of the "active" & "inactive" option on the trails so that removes my concern over them disappearing. Trails don't usually clutter but excessive waypoints can. I just thought a screen shot posted online might show how your product works to all of us. I'll drop you a PM with my email address if you can shot a few to me.

Update

We have our new website about 99% complete as of today and we have added three new lakes. Squaw Creek, Grandbury and Fayette.

Bobby Feazel, I assume you are actually talking about "track points" that make up the trails that you use to form the creek channels, roads, drainages, etc.
The Humminbird unit memory that I have has a maximum capacity of 50 trails/tracks with each having a maximum of 20,000 track points. The track points can be set to be saved at chosen intervals like 1 per second up to 1 per minute and several choices between the two extremes. The longer the interval, the longer the individual track can be up to the 20,000 track point limit.
That would mean I could have 49 total creeks in the unit memory with the present track being recorded.
For a lake with 9 feeder creeks flowing into a main creek channel (total of 10), only four lakes of that makeup plus a smaller one could be retained in the unit memory.
No problem with keeping four lakes in the unit memory, but when trying to add an additional 10 channel lake, some of the other tracks in the unit memory would have to be deleted to make room.
If you use the track/trails to show other stuff like roads, drainages, etc. that will reduce the number of creeks that the unit can hold in memory.

The Lowrance HDS-10 has a maximum memory of 10 trails with each having a max of 12,000 track points. That would exclude a lot of lakes with more than 9 creeks or 9 total marked tracks/trails with your software.

Since the track/trail function is done from the unit memory, your track data would be downloaded to the unit memory to function. The data would not be not read directly for the purchased memory card, correct?.

Does my analysis fit your product?
If I am correct, your product may be useless for most Tx size waters especially for Lowrance owners and marginal for Humminbird owners..

Wayne P.

It's good to see someone with a thorough understanding of a unit's capacity and you are spot-on with your numbers.

Let me explain the process and perhaps you can better understand the difference in your analysis and what our tracks/trails represent.

The tracks/trails we have are not generated from a moving GPS. They are made with software from historical USGS topo maps that were made prior to a lakes inundation. The software gives a count of track points as they are produced. In other words, every mouse click represent a track point.

So, if we keep a close eye on the track point count as we progress with a track/trail on a particular lake, we never exceed 10,000 points per single trail. We use the limit of 10,000 because that is the limit on older units which is less than the modern limits of 12,000 and 20,000 as you pointed out. When making the computer generated tracks/trails, if we see that we are approaching 10,000 we terminate that track/trail and begin another at the point of termination.

Now let me put you in perspective concerning Texas lakes. Toledo Bend (the largest lake) has a total of 5 tracks/trails, four of which are between 8+ and 9+ thousand points with the other being less than 2 thousand. These 5 tracks/trails cover the whole 186,000 acre lake and encompasses 674 miles of rivers, creeks and drains. The only lake that comes that close is Sam Rayburn with 2 tracks/trails showing 311 miles of river, creeks and drains.

Another example: Lake Fork has 2 tracks/trails locating 180 miles of river, creeks and drains. All other Texas lakes are less than that.

Just for another perspective, I have LCX 25c's on my boat and I have 25 individual lakes currently on them at the same time with no memory capacity problems. The newer versions will handle much more as your numbers show.

This is where I think we have a disconnect.

You said: "That would mean I could have 49 total creeks in the unit memory with the present track being recorded."

When you say "49 total creeks" you infer (I may be mistaken) that each feeder creek must have its own individual track/trail. Not correct, the GPS tracks/trails are all combined into one track/trail as long as it does not exceed the total track point limit.

Let me be very clear, everything is not all 'hunky dory' with the memory capacity of all GPS units because some users with older units tend to never discard any information. Their unit continues to be loaded with data even though they will never use, or for that matter even recognize where it came from. You have probably seen units that have many tracks/trails (all in pink of course) where each track/trail has exactly 2000 track points. A new one is made every time an old one reaching its maximum. It goes on and on.

Hope this helps. If not come back with a response and I�ll try to do better.

Bobby

Thanks Bobby, that is suprising that a single track/trail can be made up of multiple lines (branches).
Your explaination will help others understand your product.

Any plans to do any Oklahoma lakes? Like say Grand Lake O' The Cherokees?

johntvette

Oklahoma is on the near horizon. Assuming of course that appropriate maps are available to make a product worthy of a little hard earned money. Some lakes have good available historical maps and some do not.

http://www.owrb.ok.gov/studies/reports/reports_pdf/GrandLake--hydrographicsurvey.pdf

That might help. I go to that lake a few times a year, and it is a maze. We just don't have anything comparable around here.

johntvette

Thanks for the information.

I did some research and found that the lake was impounded in 1947. Unfortunately, that's too early for USGS topo maps to have been made in the area.

Terribly sorry but your map is not suitable for what we do to make accurate maps of lakes.

Other Oklahoma suggestions are appreciated.

Bobby, you did an excellent job of describing how you do creek channels to minimize using up unit GPS trail memory capacity, BUT when I looked on your web site at the software for Lake Fork in Texas, it looks like you "shot yourself in the foot" with roads.
This is your description for Fork----"The Lake fork GPS Lake Map contains 20 trails. Two trails show the river, creeks and drains consisting of 181 miles (red). There are 18 trails showing 20 miles of submerged roads (green)."
As I mentioned before, the Lowrance HDS units have a max memory capacity of 10 trails. Unless your software description is in error, it is useless for Lowrance owners, at least for that body of water. It also uses 40% of the track/trail memory capacity of the Humminbird units.

Wayne P.

Thanks for pointing that out. My apologies for not getting into this discussion in the previous post. I was trying to answer the questions that were asked.

Now for this discussion:

I have personally loaded lake maps containing more that 10 trails on several HDS units without issues. My team partner has an HDS 7 and he has no issues with Toledo Bend (28 trails), Sam Rayburn (21 trails) and about 5 of his own personal trails. I am confident that I will be able to load additional lakes when he needs them.

Tommy, my partner in GPS Lake Maps, got his new boat about 10 days ago with two new HDS 10's. The first thing we did was update to software version 3.5. Then we loaded Toledo Bend, Sam Rayburn, Fork, Stockton, Table Rock and Bull Shoals. That's a total of 73 trails with absolutely no issues. BTW, the new software makes the HDS units VERY FAST.

Also, we have sold hundreds of the maps for all kinds of units, some people purchase 5 or 6 maps at a time, to date we know of only one issue and that was with a 7 year old Humminbird that had accumulated 10 years worth of useless data.

Please don't infer that version 3.5 is necessary because older versions have accepted more than 10 trails numerous times.

I hate to make such long posts, but let me add one other thing.

There is a man in Louisiana who does validation for Lowrance and is in daily contact with the engineers at Lowrance. When there is a new product or new software it is his job to test it before release. I spoke at length with him recently and we discussed in detail the issue of a 10 trail limit. His contention at this point is, the only thing affected when you exceed the 10 limit is the speed at which the unit operates. The more data, the longer it takes to process.

If you want to test your own unit here is a little experiment you can perform without getting your boat wet.

Acquire a satellite signal, make sure all your current trails are turned off, make a new trail, let it acquire a few data points, turn it off and make another trail then repeat this as many times as you want.