In order to be �Fair and Balanced� comparing 7wt fly rods in a previous post, that ended up intimating bias toward TFO rod, the following evaluation of my Sage fly rods are required.

As previously mentioned that I own, or have owned 8, 9, 10, and 11wt Sage RPLX fly rods. I realize that newer models have ensued but seriously doubt the old workhorse RPLXs have been improved other than weight reduction.

I also have a 8-9 Loomis but I refuse to take this any further.

Fly rod manufactures have experts that can cast the entire fly line on a broom stick.

This morning I took my old favorite RPLX 3pc 9wt out in the backyard to compare to a TFO BVK 8wt and 8-10 Mini-Mag.
The old Sage 9 wt laid down a 75 ft cast as sweet as I remembered but was on the heavy side compared to the BVK8 which duplicated the previous cast. The BVK was smoother and more sensitive in my opinion.

Next on the list was TFO 8-10 Mini-Mag which was the closest comparison to the Sage RPLX 9 wt with comparable weight and action.
The Mini-Mag with its noted �sweet spot� is noticeable to me due to the �S� glass-hybrid/carbon fiber mid section and carbon fiber tip.

My conclusion is obvious.
Economics are important to me - I would never pay $600+ bucks for a up-scale fly rod when I can build one for half the price.
Why would I build one when I can purchase a fly rod with comparable casting characteristics at 1/3 the cost for the up-scale rod? Lifetime guarantee with 24 hr turn around.
I wouldn�t unless cosmetics are important to me which they are not.

The following photos are Sage RPLX 9wt fish.
IMO the only way to test a fly rod is not only casting on grass but fighting big fish:

Comparing the newest TFOs to ancient Sages is like comparing apples and oranges. Of course the TFOs are going to be lighter and more responsive, since that's the direction all fly rod manufacturers have been moving in the decade or so since the RPLXs were discontinued and replace by what is now three full generations of improvement. And of course they are going to be cheaper because they are all made in Korea vs the US manufactured Sages.

Compare them to the Sage Xi3s if you want a true test.

Here's my story about my 8-wt Orvis Mid-Flex Zero Gravity rod. I think it casts better with a WF9F line, and quite brilliantly with a 350-gr shooting head, so I figure it can play with the 9s.

Some years back my sister took her husband out to visit our folks in WY. The H spent a few days fly fishing and my Dad bought him a 5-wt Superfine "Trout Bum" rod and a nice reel (don't remember what, but you probably have the idea that Pops on occasion goes for the big gift). Comes to pass that Sis and her H split, and split ugly. There was that Trout Bum rod hanging on the wall one summer, and dad says to me, "if you want it, it's yours. If I ever see that guy again I'm going to kill him, and frankly I don't want the rod here as a reminder."

The rod came home with me. It was a beautiful rod, no doubt. But I already had a 5-wt that I liked, and here I was in Texas, with popper season still in swing, Texoma an hour away, and the float tube hanging in the garage. If ever there was a guy who needed an 8-wt. fly rod...

So off I trundled to the Orvis Store on Preston in Dallas, where within about 10 minutes I was casting my way through a few different 8-wts. Sean set me up with the ZG, a Battenkill Large Arbor reel, a bass taper line, a handful of leaders, a couple spools of tippet, and a fly or two. So basically, I ended up comped a really nice fly rod because my sister married a jerk.

Amen!!

What Mick said.

George, it sounds like you haven't even given the new Sages a chance. I can't imagine you haven't casted any of them. They are unbelievable, as are a lot of the other premium rodmaker's offerings. I just never have casted or fished with a TFO and left thinking "I really gotta have one of those rods". I've said that many times about Sage, Winston or Loomis. I'm not saying they're worth that kinda money but to keep comparing them just based on ROI is biased. But then I don't pay full price for any of my rods so I go with premium stuff when I can find it closed out or a good deal. I haven't casted a BVK yet, but am looking forward to--maybe I'll just have to have one!!

And now some numbers:

RPLx 990-3....4 5/8 oz
TiCrX 990-4...5.6 oz
BVK 990-4.....4.3 oz

So the 15 year old Sage is still lighter than today's TiCrX, and they were more in the $475 range rather than $750.

Hey, I agree with all you Sage guys - no I haven�t tried the Xi3 but not because I can�t afford one - or maybe more.
The old RPLXs were probably the best gun Sage ever produced, but a fly rod to me is only a means to an end. I even believe that heft is more important to fighting a fish than lightness.

I believe in buy American as well, but that just isn�t the world we live in anymore - sad but true.

I�m a huge Sage fan but cannot understand the logic of paying high prices for up-scale fly rods when you can get the same performance from the new generation of affordable high quality fly rods.
I'm talking about fishing capability - not casting.
I continue to worry about fighting big fish on these new lightweight rods, although I did catch my personal best Hybrid Striped Bass on a TFO BVK 8wt prototype.

George

George:

What, if any, business relationship do you have with TFO? Just curious. I guess I'd heard, via the grapevine, that you do some product testing for them, etc.

It would just be good to know the nature of that relationship when evaluating your comments re: TFOs and other manufacturers' rods.

Thanks,

Mick

Mick, I have stated many times on this forum and I will say it again:
I HAVE ABSOLUELY NO BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP WITH TEMPLE FORK OUTFITTERS - but have a long term and loyal freindship with them. They are some of the most honest and ethical folks that I have been privaledged to know!

In my other life I owned and operated my own successful business.
I am a professional O&G Exploration Geologist/Geophysicist.

You will have to ask the TFO folks why they asked me to field test the Mini-Mag series as well as a minor role in testing the BVKs.

I suspect it is because I represent the average consumer of their products.
I have ponds that are stocked with the very best genetic species that are fed high protein fish food with aeration system for our hot Texas summers.
On any given day I can catch trophy pure Floida Coppernose bluegill, pure Florida Largemouth and F1 Bass, trophy Hybrid Stripers etc.
Fly rods are tested casting for and fighting big fish, of which I am blessed.

If you want to know more about me, shoot me a PM.

My life is an open book and at 85 years of age I have memories of fishing Salt water, warm water, and cold water streams from the Gulf of Mexico to Alaskan remote base camps and fishing streams accessible by helicopter - and getting paid to do it.
Cheers,
George

Thanks, George. That's very helpful.

Mick

I'm down with what ever ketches yer fishes, if ya like TFO great, if ya like Okuma great, Sage, Redington, etc, etc, and all price levels... there are plenty here who turn there noses up at some guy with a 2 piece WHite River combo, but if he's ketchin fish then he's doin just as well as any high falootin' plaid wearin' Yankee flingin' his $1200 bamboozeled rod.

Back on topic, I have really enjoyed my Redinton Predator 9 weight (currenty out of rotation due to damage probably caused by me) I use it alongside a Sage Largemouth & the Redington is my preference most of the time...Fishing with TXRR (where is he ?) once upon a time I cast his TFO Mini-mag-it had a different feel altogether from the Sage or Redinton...I say buy what you think you will like you'll probably grow into it...least we forget this sport is about ketchin' fishes, not ownin' gear.

I like any 9wt that has a fish on the end.
But I would love a sage 99 4wt or an orvis Helios but since my budget can't support that I'm very happy with my two tfo's and my pearow rod.

Well my last 3 rods have been Redingtons. My latest favorite rod acquisition is a Redington CT @ a whopping $129, even favoring it often over my Sage 3wt that retailed at 3 times that. I also like my Cabela's 3Forks 3wt (just not as much) which goes for $49. Not what you'd call snobby rods.

So I'm not really a "Sage guy". The thread started out mentioning Sage so folks responded to that. I have several different brands of rods but I don't just like any old rod. That's nice to say but there are some serious dogs for my style and I usually unload them once I decide they don't work for me. Somebody else found them quite fine and that's great. Now I hear Mick never met a rod he didn't like, and I definitely believe it (who has a dozen 7wts?)

Anyway, anyone who does this long enough realizes that when their experience grows and they widen their fishing horizons, one gets pickier about their rods. There are just too many options to have to get used to a rod. Shouldn't a rod work for you, given that you've got some casting time under your belt to know what you like?

Casting far is overrated. Accuracy and ease of casting are not. Rod weight, especially when you get to 8-10 weights is underrated. Feel is one of those things that for many is tangible, and harder to define, except that you'll know it when you feel it. Word on the street is that Xi3's lack feel, and that's why guys are scrambling for the "old" Xi2's. In the end Mr. Easterley hits it squarely - it needs to fit your style. I would say a rod needs to also conform to a basic mathematical formula - bushwhacking + unknown topography + unknown fish = "cheap rod," and known topography + known fish + known conditions = "snobby rods." Boy, I hope everyone agrees with me because I don't know if I can take the hazing!

And out of the melee emerges . . . substance! Great stuff, gentlemen � everyone. Critical insight seems much more valuable to me than bandwagoning Suzy Sunshineism.
_____
Disclosures:

Jeff Evans
Fly fisher of not unlimited means
Owner of TFOs, Redingtons, a Korean CaRbela's Clear Creek, and one old (broken) glass stick
And, apropos this thread, practitioner of wanting what we have

other than my custom builds i like the scott rods; nobody mentions them. I have two 8 weights, a 7 weight, and a 5 weight. They are not fast rods but fit my casting style. Scott rods seem to use the same or similar blanks thru various model lines with the hardware seperating the most expensive from the least expensive. At least that's my take on it, but i could be wrong-p-