_Hey Tournament Bashers: I think most of you have Never Fished one. While I dont fish BASS MASTERS I still enjoy fishing competative tournaments on the Local Texas level. If you have never fished the Mac Donnalds you're missing out!! Better odds than the Loto and a 2Lb Fish could win you $1,200.00 from the bank!

_As for the Fishing Tournament Polygraphs...NASCAR has inspectors that pour over the winners and selected other placing participants at random!! They're trying to Stop Cheating. Every Major Sporting event except Golf?? has Stop Gaps to curb cheating!! Pro and Olympic Atheletes are Drug Tested for obvious reasons!! Bass Masters has Non Boater Co-anglers on Qualifying Days and Official Observers durring the finals. So as you can see Cheats are not as confined to Tournament Fishing as one might think!! Cheating And Money have been partners for a Very Long Time!!

_So You dont like seeing Tournament Weighins on Major TV Statons?? Big Deal!!! If you have a remote that's as easy as a click away!! I would rather watch Paint dry than Gardening, House Makeovers, Golf, NASCAR, or Bowling...for whatever reason there are those that Cant Get Enough so You can view it any time day or night?? I just change the channel...I dont get upset!! If you have ever been in the Weighin Line then watching it would take on a Whole New meaning!!

_I agree ESPN/BassMasters should have had more informative Fishing Footage of the Anglers Catching Fish!! Bottom line is ESPN has a Long Way to go and I'm sure thay have had Lots of fishing public Feed Back to guide them in the Right Direction!! I think it will come around to an enjoyable format...someday.

_For evey Tournament Angler that has ever offended "You" there are Thousands with Boating Manners (Myself Included) that wont bother "You"!! They spend $$$ Money that most likely keeps many of the Ramps, Lake Side stores, and Tackle Shops..."You" non tournament Anglers enjoy...Open for the Stereo Typing mostly complaining public!!

_You still get the 70Mph BassBoat speed thing jabed in there...but many Jet Skis and Jetboats easily will beat that!!I have never made a Wake 5ft tall that pushed a fisherman Into A Boat dock (Lke Many Ski Boats) running within 50ft of their fishing position!! I have had it happen 100's of times to "ME". I have also had boat loads of Non Tournament fisherman descide that "I" obviously knew where the Fish Were!! So why look for any...they just invited themselves over and got two feet from my boat before dunking their Minnows...enquiring if the fish were biting here?? I mean Hey...It's Public Waters Right??? So see Tournament Fisherman have a view about Non Tournament Fisherman too!!

_90% of ALL Boating Accidents are commited buy???? Pleasure Boaters that have been drinking or lack the boating skills to propperly opporate a High Powered Boat!! Not Highly Skilled...High Performance Boat Owning Tournament Anglers!!

_Soooo As "You" can see it's a matter of Perspective and Education that I'm all to happy to provide!!

_OK I'm ready for my Bazzsectomy Now!! :P

_Good Luck and Catch CarpZilla Yall!!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bazztex<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Holy Smokes Bazz! Hope you were able to put the fire out on your keyboard before the keys melted! . Mind if I "weigh-in " on this topic? Being a non tournament fisherman by choice, mostly due to the reasons mentioned previously, you know that I don't fit the picture that you painted. And I know you as a tournament fisherman don't fit that negative picture that someone described earlier either. I believe that we would agree that there are good and bad in both types. In common, we all enjoy fishing and hate jet skiers. (Heh-heh, had to throw that in, they are so easy to hate).

I don't know what the stats are today on how many license holders fish tournaments,(would be interesting to know) but it could be a "numbers" thing as to why tournament anglers get a bad rap sometimes. If there are more tournament anglers out there,then chances are the "bad ones" are easier to spot.

Anyway, since I got "learnt" on a post a while back, I say "live and let fish". I promise not to cut you off or fish closer than 500 ft. I try to stay away from other fishermen really. I like finding my own fish.

One point though if I may, respectfully, I spend my money on the local economy at the lakes also.

Good fishing, Bob

Bazz your first comment is so far off mark I almost fell outta my seat laughing at you.

As for polygraphs......have you ever met a fisherman that didn't lie? Tournements are created by fishermen I think they know that they lie their arses off just for bragging rights. Why wouldn't they for monies? I don't remember the last time someone walked up to me after I completed a days work and polygraphed me to see if it was complete.

The reason is that there are too many places paid out and that fishing isn't a spectator sport. All people see are the results. You can throw all the catches of all the fishermen into one 30 minute show and still need filler material.

Also, look at women's basketball... What female pro basketball player makes 80 million for a 5 year contract or signs with Nike for 90 million? None. Why? Marketablity. Have you ever watched a women's basketball game? I haven't.

I love to fish, but I don't expect anyone to pay me to fish. Those who can get by simply by sport fishing are lucky to be getting by, and sure there should be more interest in it, but most people who are interested in it are not home watching on TV, they are fishing.

The PGA pays how many places? Can you name 10 pro golfers? I can and I don't even watch it much. Can you name 10 pro fishermen? Probably, but how many times do you see someone like Roland Martin or Jay Yelas on David Letterman (Denny Brauer was there a couple of times)? When have you seen any pro fisherman on the cover of Sports Illustrated?

Also, the pros make a decent living. Basschamps and a few other circuits who pay out good for 1st and it dwindles from there, those tournaments are like a strainer for people who can win consistantly to become full time professionals, while most of the remainder of the field is come and go people, who tried their hand at it and decided it was too expensive and to hard to fish certian lakes.

I have been keeping an eye on Scott Dean... He seems to always have 5 fish at the weigh in. These types are the ones who you will see in major tournaments later, like Iconelli.

Oh, also, I don't bash the tournament angler or the weekender.

There are certian aspects about both personalities that I like and dislike.

Tournament anglers generally feel that you are fishing "their" lake if they ever go with you to fish. They look at a bass like a hundred dollar bill instead of a fish. I have heard many of them say "that would be a great tournament fish" as if it's not a good fish without being in a tournament.

On the other hand, tournaments have fueled things like this board, most new lures, rods, reels, boats, motors, just about everything else related to sport fishing. Otherwise you and I would still be using fiberglass rods with cast iron handles with a worm under a cork.

Weekenders take too much time at the ramp, generally making the same mistakes every time they get there because the time between trips is greater than their attention span. They don't invest time or effort in good gear, or take care of their boat, so you see their fish/ski boat being towed in regularly or see them at the dock trying to figure out how to get the cord they use for a winch strap tied to the trailer cause it broke again.

There are good and bad sides to all types of people.

For the record, I fish tournaments often. I fish the McDonald's on Rayburn and the Tracy Byrd tournament. I also fish local tournaments. I also catfish alot and fish for just about anything that bites. I don't consider a bass to be holy, non-edible creature, but I do consider them a precious resource and loads of fun to hunt and catch.

Also, I like to watch the tournaments. I like to see the pressure, the tactics and the results. You see these elite pros on fishing shows catching one after another, but in a tournament, you can see them actually use their experience to locate and catch fish. I learn alot from it. I find it more interesting than watching cars go around in circles for hours on end.

[This message has been edited by Kat-man-do (edited 08-17-2003).]

I fished tournaments for 15 years and never knew what I had missed until I quit...What a relief.......Fishing is fun and relaxing again.
Heres what I see about the fishing monies as compared to other sports. All the other individual sports have NO ENTRY FEES and major sponsor paticipation towards the entrants. Almost all golfers and tennis players have Major sponsor endorsements. And then play for the sponsors money. In fishing YOU pay VERY HIGH ENTRY FEES and fish for each others money with the sponsors reaping all the rewards and assuming none of the risks.Out of all the top pros there are a very few that could actually live off thier winnings.
Bazztex: It seems like your attitude is just the thing that drove my from the tournaments in the first place.If I don`t like the program Change the channel!! And that is exactly what I have done, along with a lot of other people . All too many tournament anglers have egos much bigger than thier boats and every time any suggestions are made they simply say change the channel. It would be my guess that if tournament fishing were put to the vote of ALL the anglers there would be a hell of a lot of tackle for sale.


------------------
THE DOG

I am so happy that I posted the question to you guys - thanks for the responses. Almost every response has reminded me of the why's and why nots of fishing. I am an old timer by almost all standards and I am so encouraged to see that there is a core of sportsmen who appreciate and respect each other, the resource, and the spirit of fishing as a privledge. Thanks again, your comments mean a lot to me -- now if we can just educate the other weekenders.......

Hey bazztex, the post was about why there is so little money and so little interest in bass fishing on tv..Sounds like the negative outlook a lot of people have towards tournaments is a sore spot. I fished tournaments at the local,state and some national events from the late 60s to the early 90s..I have been in the weigh in line many times..I also spent a lot more money than I ever won...Anybody that fishes tournaments is going to spend more than they win...If you come even close to breaking even you are doing very good...The last tournament I fished was a Redman on rayburn in 92..I drove down on fri evening,looked around and practiced sat untill time to come in and make the meeting and draw...On sunday talking to my partner I find out him and his two friends have been on the lake a week and hired a guide for two days..This was legal by the rules,they had no off lake rule and local guides were allowed to fish..A local guide won 1st...On my way home I realized that myself and 95% of the other fishermen provided the prize money and really had no chance of winning...Tournaments today are no differant,95% of the entrys have no chance of winning,they are just chasing a dream and providing prize money...Thats fine,this is America and we can chase our dreams..Back to tournament bashing,if you would just take a minute and think about how many more boats are on the lake now than when us old guys started fishing...Ski boats and pleasure boaters have always been a pain,most of them just don't know any better...I have always defended bass fishermen but as much as I hate to admit it there are a lot of rude and dangerous bass boat operaters on the lakes these days and the number seems to be growing..The talk at the weigh ins isn't about what the fish are doing or what bait is working, its about how fast this boat is,its about how many rpms can this motor turn,what jack plate can get you 1 or 2 mph more..The sport has changed and I don't care to change with it...I will just fish for pleasure, crappie,lm bass, hybrids whites, what ever is fun at the time...And bazz you are right...If you don't like what you are watching click that remote or better yet,,,go fishing,,,,hope you cath a bunch...

_Hey YAll: Once again Stereo Typing has "Me" with a Big Ego ...BIGGER THAN MY BOAT?? Son!! I also will leave this Third Person and Not Name-Names in an effort to Attack or Hummiliate Individuals Publicly. I thought we had all read the TFF rules and aggreed not to do that??? I just stated My Case in Disagreement/Defence of the Tournament Angler.Thus Feeding The Trolls as I now see!!

_My attitude is simple...go fishing...be safe..respect others water...and Above All...Never take yourself or Tournament Fishing So Seriously that you dont Enjoy It!! If I did'nt enjoy it..I would'nt go period!! Oh and Last Tournament my partner and I stoped to Render Aid to a stranded Pontoon Boater with engine problems. We gave him 4 bottles of cold water and offer to tow him back in. He refused the tow but borrowed "My Cell" phone to call his son to come tow him back in!! That took about 20 Minutes of our tournament fishing time but we were glad to give it because Someone Needed "Our" Help!! We average two tournaments a year where we render aid to stranded boaters..after observing several boats that have passed right by them without stoping!!

_I would also like you All to know I'm not Your Problem and there are many more Like Me out there that just want to enjoy fishing. We just happen to also fish Tournaments and take Great Exception to being Stereo Typed as being Ill Mannered Ego Maniacs that hate eveyone In Our Way....WRONG!! The Bass Humble Me everytime I think I'm Getting Good so I dont need it from "You"!!

_I'm a Realist. I know if I spent the Time on the water and Money at Tournament Fishing that the BASS Pros do I could be competative. I also know my Family Would Suffer for my Dreams!! So I fish the local scean and suffer because I have a "Regular Job" that allows me Very Little Time on the Water!! I still enjoy it and dont worry about what somebody elses EGO Trip is. As for the Pro Borrowing Money...he's a Gambler..he has to Compete to fuel his addiction...and will borrow money to get the fix!! Professional Fisherman have to win to survive the game and retain sponsors. If you don consistantly place high..you better have Deep Pockets. I'd have to win the lotto to fish Bass Masters.

_Major Non Fishing Related Sponsors backing Bass Fishing Pros is a realatively New Topic. I mean compaired to Football and Racing...BASS has'nt scratched the surface. These sponsors are Driven buy Results. A few will try the waters and if they get results from their sponsorships IE Sales...you'll see Many More getting on the BASS Band Wagon. ESPN has just started Promoting and Comercializing BASS so it will take time to gain the audiance.

_Next time there's a BASS MASTERS tournament at Toledo or Sam Rayburn go check out the crowds and Media it draws. Then tell me it's not a Spectator Sport...if you can find a place to watch. Better Yet Go Check Out A BASS MASTERS CHAMPIONSHIP!

_Sorry If I Steped on Someones Toes but I felt the need to explain the Other Side Of The Story . I Did realize the original Topic Question but others whom had strayed needed an Education First. I hope I have adiquately covered both subjects with some Insite you can live with.

_Good Luck Whatever Your Fishing Preferances May Be and Enjoy it..Peace Yall !!

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Bazztex<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

the best fisherman don't make that much money from tournaments, its sponsorship and advertising. As for MOs spectator sport comment, You ought to see the amount of boats on the water during these events.

We obviously all like fishing and just like any other sport we rather play it than watch it.

As for 40k boats whos owners think they own the lake, ask the idiot discharging a shotgun at the classic, or the airboat driver who thought he owned the lake. Or ask the John boat that parked his boat in between me and the shore. Sportsmanship has nothing to do with the type of boat.

The ones that make a living fishing have a marketable personality. You HAVE to have sponsorship and not eveyone can be sponsored. If you are good enough, just like any other occupation, you will be able to make a living. I don't see any of the pros from ANY sport worrying about poor little ol' me. Kinda like seeing hitch hikers on the road, they chose their way of travel and I choose mine.
TV can promote anything and I would rather watch the big poker matches instead of watching fish weighed but I haven't seen any of the fishing tourney events on TV that didn't have something interesting in it although most of it could be cut out and the whole thing could then be shown in 15 minutes tops, .
IMHO people that fish would rather fish than watch a boob tube and that leaves people watching that just couldn't find anything better and most could care less. Sure like it though when the weather is to bad to be fishing myself. It still beats the gardening shows

[This message has been edited by j.steve (edited 08-17-2003).]

$1,200 WOW, WHAT WOULD I DO WITH ALL THAT MONEY?

HECK, I CAN MAKE THAT IN ONE GOOD WEEKEND OF COLLEGE FOOTBALL.


TRUE, IT IS A SPORT AND A COMPETITION, BUT TO WATCH IT ON TV? NOPE, I TELL YOU THERE ARE A FEW SHOWS I LIKE TO WATCH ON TV THAT INVOLVE THE OUTDOORS, BUT ONLY IF I AM HOME....BUT WHY WATCH SOME SLAPPY GO DO THE THINGS I CAN DO, THAT I DO, OR I HAVE DONE, OR I WANT TO DO? WAY TOO MANY EGOS IN THE TOURNAMENT RING, THERE ARE THOSE THAT ARE GOOD EGGS, LIKE MY FRIEND BAZZ, BUT THERE ARE SOME THAT ARE THE PITS.....SAME THING IN HUNTING, I WENT TO THE SHOW THIS WEEKEND, AND SAW THE OUTFITTERS AND DOG TRAINERS WHO WOULD NOT KNOW HOW TO BLOW A CALL THE RIGHT WAY, BUT ARE SO FULL OF [censored] THEY THINK THEY ARE THE BOMB, DOG TRAINERS WHO BASICALLY SHOCK THE DOG TO DEATH AND IF HE DOES NOT MAKE IT, THEN IT IS THE DOGS FAULT(PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH THEM HERE AND I HAVE BEEN AROUND DOGS IN TRIALS FOR 16 YEARS)


TO EACH HIS OWN, BUT THERE IS ALWAYS SOMEBODY OUT THERE WHO WANTS TO GET PAID, HAS A POOR ATTITUDE, THINKS THEY ARE THE GREATEST AND EVERYBODY SHOULD BOW TO THEM, BUT TO SPEND ALL DAY ON THE WATER FOR A CLUB DEAL, MAYBE THAT WOULD BE FUN, BUT SOME OF THE OTHER TOURNEYS TO WIN $1000 OR A LITTLE MORE AND PUT UP WITH ALL THE CRYING ABOUT THIS AND THAT AND HEAR ALL THE BS STORIES AND HOW THEY REALLY ARE BETTER THEN THE GUY WHO WON???NO THANKS.


I AM WITH YOU FISHERMAN ED....IF THEY WANT MORE MONEY, GET A DAY JOB..

Every time I have fished a 3 day tournament (McDonalds usually), there have been little to no spectators until the final day, then you cannot find a place to sit.

Sure people like to watch the weigh-in, but no one said weigh in's were not spectator events, they said the tournament isn't a spectator event. There's nothing special about any tournament winner, just experience and time on the water (and some luck).

I know people who fish tournaments alot, and many of them are convinced they are just one fish away from the big time, but never seem to get that one fish. It's always "man just one more fish and I would have had it" or "I missed two that would have won it". I always respond "do you realize how many people here missed the winning fish? Well that guy with the check didn't miss it"

Still, like someone else said, even the people who win often barely break even, and without sponsors, probably would need a job to support themselves.

So, why don't bass fishermen make as much as some other sports? Who's willing to pay them?

Bazztex; I guess I am the one you are refering as saying anything about an ego the size of your boat. My name is Con and I did make a personal reference to you several months ago and wrote you a personal e-mail of apology which you graciously accepted. I DID NOT REFER to you personaly as having a big ego.....If you will please re-read that I wrote" all too many tournament anglers etc,etc" you will find NO personal reference to you at all, but IF you wish to be included in that group please do it on your own.As far I personally view tournament anglers {bear in mind that I have probably fished as many as you have} is that they are overwhelmingly good people.It`s just like every other sport.....The bad ones stand out and tend to bring the rest down.

------------------
THE DOG

Opinions were solicited and given. I dont
think that is bashing.
I will admit I have never fished in
a tournament, and I doubt I ever will. Thats
just me. My opinion of tournaments
have been formed on the water. I am sure
that a few bad apples have spoiled the whole
basket for me and others. I know some anglers who fish tournaments occasionally
and they are fine people.
One of my biggest complaints about tournaments is not valid for me personally
anymore. Lake Palestine has very few boat
ramps for a lake of its size. It used to
really chap my azz to arrive at the ramp
and find that a tournmant had taken over
the facilites. I am not a patient person
while waiting to get the boat in the water,
and did not enjoy driving halfway around the
lake to find another decent ramp and hope tha
it was not overrun also. I live on the
lake now and flip a switch to drop the boat.
It amuses me now to watch bass boats on
tournament day run from way up the lake,
spend 5 minutes in stone chimney creek , then
take off again running back north at WOT.
This is an subject where we are going to
have to agree to disagree.
Good luck
MO