You might be shocked at what Lake Worth produces these days, Lake Record was broken last year and I saw more 5-8 lb fish out of that lake last year than ever before. It takes 17-20# to win a 3.5 hour tournament from March until the heat of summer sets in, then the weights drop 5 lbs or so. Also lets not forget about project World Record at Marine Creek, they loaded that bad boy up with SAL fry... that lake in another 5 years might be loaded with giants.

The original question was "What good has SAL done"? I honestly dont know. I havent seen anything with my own two eyes that suggests it has made a difference, but I also havent seen anything to suggest its not working.

What evidence? Over 400+ donated, how many died in transit?

What are the actual numbers, then we can put facts into speculations at best.

Then, how many died because of the program, or the improper handling prior to Athens picking the fish up.

How many died due to hook complications, or being caugt deep, or just that time in life?

Put some facts to these questions and then we can determine if there is problem.


I don't see how giving somebody a chance to win a life time fishing license and 400 dollar replica is any different than tournament mortaility fishing for a different prize.

Its okay for tournament anglers to fish for money, but we can't fish for a life time license and free replica?

Same thing!

That is true.
But each state has its favorite lake that does excel above the others, Texas is blessed with many top lakes & one or two supreme ones. It may be due to our longer growing period than anything though, as well as the amount of natural structure we leave in the lakes as they are built?

One thing it has done is brought publicity to the state. It's a unique program. People from out of state hear about these 13lb plus bass and this 'genetic program' that Texas has to produce massive fish and they want a piece of the action. Hence, its an economic stimulous for the communities that surround these lakes and guides who make a living taking them out.

I am an advocate of the SAL program because I have seen several fish that were caught, put into the program, and caught again at a later date. I know there have been numerous fish die from transporting them but I don't think you can necessarily blame TPWD for the mortality rate. David Campbell cares for these fish exceptionally well.

Some of these fish are old when they are caught. I have had fish die in my livewell that I know were being properly cared for. Nobody's fault. They just didn't make it for whatever reason. Some of them will die, bottom line.

Lake Fork was/is the Crown Jewel in Texas. It remains to be seen if Choke or Falcon can produce an new state record. I believe they can and very well may.

However, what many folks fail to realize is that the life cycle of any body of water begins in microscopic form as plankton. I am no zoologist but if the lake loses the ability to produce a healthy base of plankton then the baitfish population will suffer. If the baitfish population goes down you know what will happen to the gamefish population as a result.

Fork is now almost 30 years old. Most man-made lakes peak when they are 10-15 years old.

The reason: As timber & vegetation rots at the bottom of the lake over the years it produces sulfate reducing bacteria which lowers the pH of the water over time. This is why many privately funded premium fisheries "lime the lake" every few years. Lime buffers the pH back up to a point where plankton proliferates in abundance. This supports a healthy baitfish population and so on...

I think the SAL Program has done good things for the State of Texas in general. You cannot look at the decline of Top 50 fish from Fork and blame the SAL program. The lake is 30 years old! It is past it's peak for producing 15+ pound fish. I think many of us may be in denial but the numbers speak for themselves.

Personally I think we should feel blessed that it produced the giants for as long as it did. And who knows... It may pop another state record tomorrow!

Ken

I agree 100%

If these lakes weren't being publicized like then no one would be able to make their livelyhood off a lake.

Publicity is good!

The SAL program has one major accomplishment that it has given great visibility to bass fishing in Texas. Lakes in Texas, with a few exceptions, were not known around the US for producing large fish until the visibility that SAL produced. Now people all over the world recognize Texas as a great state to bass fish mostly from the published results of SAL program. Lots of money has been brought into the state from all over including Europe, Australia and Japan and many of the local guides have indirectly benefited from that published information. It probably doesn�t help the fishing much but does help the local economies. Sometimes I wish they would shut the hell up.

Great point about the weather. I would just like to add the upper end of the thermometer too. Metabolism speeds up and in turn requires more energy to keep up with growth.

That's another advantage So Cal has over alot of Texas especially South Texas. Hotter temps = shorter lifespans.

I have to side with Ken A. Lakes peak within 10-15 years of their life and then the catches begin to level off. However, lakes can rebound with the influence of hydrilla. Sam Rayburn, Guntersville and Amistad are all proof of that. I can almost guarantee if hydrilla was to be as prevelant as it was in the 90s the catches of numbers and size will improve.

Many years ago the space program was considered a huge waste of money but much of the technology in plastics, ceramics, microwaves etc. was a direct benefit from that program.

I don't pretend to understand the nuances of fish or fishery biology but like most research the SAL program should bring new understanding, new ideas that in turn spawn more research, more ideas and eventually end user benefits that us fishermen will reap.

I have never heard them promise superfish that grow into garanteed giants. Their goal seems to be superior genetics which is only one small part of the process for growing record size fish. They start with a theory, build on that theory with knowledge and eventually we all hope to reap the benefits of more and larger quality bass.

Also, there are just too many things we do not know to blame it on the SAL program.

How many fish that size ended up on walls instead of alive back in the lake before this program started?

How many of those fish died before the next time they spawned due to age, or complications from being caught?

As it has been said before. In most cases...

1. The fish leaves for less than a year. This means its genetics from every other time it spawned are in the lake as well as the same fish less than a year later to grow bigger.
2. There is no evidence that more fish die from SAL than those released back into the water. The difference is we get to record how many we see die, and not how many die that we cant see.
3. Being a sponsored program, there is no evidence that the program could have done something different or better to change the number of 16+ lb fish, when it probably wouldnt exist without a sponsor.
4. There is little to no evidence that any of those fish taken out of their lakes would have ever grown to 18 lbs or for most of them even 16. If they had that potential there is no evidence that they did not reach that weight and were simply not captured again.

The numbers people keep giving such as the Top 50 are results of TONS of factors. There are no numbers that say that was due to any fish being taken from those lakes.

A very small percentage of 13# fish will ever make it to 16#. Most of the SALs were never going to make it to that list no matter what happened. Very few of these fish have been recaptured once they are released. Also, I would guess by years of looking into this type of thing, that a small percentage of the fish that reach that size in most lakes are even captured between 13# and death. According to the theory that SAL has been harmful to the fisheries, then those fish that have not been turned in should have had the conditions to make the list. Its not happening. We are not catching fish that size whether we turn fish in or not.

2. There is no evidence that more fish die from SAL than those released back into the water. The difference is we get to record how many we see die, and not how many die that we cant see.

Interesting point!

I completely agree, I can say from personal experience that ms Carol, 4th largest, was donated and then caught again after being released. Thankfully there was a program such as SAL in place to take her because her jaw was broken when my dad had to liplock her over the side of the boat because she wouldn't fit in the net. If she would have been released I doubt she would have survived to be caught again. I personally think it is a good thing and I think it is an insult to say that those that work for SAL don't care about those fish.

Ah...... the early 90's at Fork. The Hey Day. Lots of Lakes peak within the first 10 years of their inpoundment. Things are set up just right. The lake is very fertile/ Cover was awesome. Brood ponds/ I remember when you went to fork and every store had tons of SX70 types of picture of fish. It was a disgrace to put up anything less than 10#. Now you see all kinds of fish, 6, 7,8 or 9's.

Do we even have any true Florida Strain bass left? Did the Florida strain and the native strain combine to make a fish that's bigger than the native bass, but doesn't get as big as the pure Florida Strain?

If that's the case, then the SAL program is just making our fish a little bigger, rather than ALOT bigger.

I'f like to know if any of the SAL's caught in the last 5 years are pure Florida Strain? I don't see how they even could be, but I'm not a Biologist.

What do you guys think about them apples?

-Alton

BTW The lakes that I mentioned in my 1st post were just random lakes in my head. I don't mean to talk like those lakes aren't good, or even great, fisheries. As lakes and fish go, I think we've got it pretty dang good here in Texas