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making it tougher to cheat
#4093723
10/28/09 07:30 PM
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Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 23,787
J.P. Greeson
OP
the janitor
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OP
the janitor
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 23,787 |
Maybe we can get some ideas going that would make it more difficult to cheat in tournaments. Here’s one I have to get the ball rolling.
Random fish checks might help. If you were to choose two or three sacks per tournament and put them aside for closer inspection, it should throw another fear factor in for potential cheaters.
I think you would choose two or three of the larger sacks that you estimate to be near the winning weight. Tournament anglers generally have an idea of the weight it is going to take to win – just take the weight people are discussing and set aside two or three sacks closest to that weight for inspection. An extra 100 gallon plastic tank isn’t going to break anyone and the inspections don’t have to be much more than visual and possibly a gentle squeeze of the belly.
You inspect the fish for alterations, look for signs that it may have spent time elsewhere before hitting the livewell and that they match the general characteristics of bass that populate the body of water where the tournament is held. You DQ for obvious alterations like tail clipping and keep records if you spot less obvious signs. Once there is suspicion of an angler, it has been proven that requiring an observer will stop them from fishing a particular trail if you can not come up with conclusive proof.
This process is even easier with big bass tournaments since you are only dealing with one fish per angler at a time.
People are always in a hurry to get the fish to a holding tank or back in the lake. The lees time a bass needs to hold its breath the better. Conversely, the rushed process makes it easier to weigh an altered bass. From weigh sack, to scales, and back to transport sack, there is really no opportunity to spot an inconsistency.
I’m not suggesting that polygraph test are discontinued, but that there might be a few simple procedures added to tournament to make it more difficult to cheat.
Keep in mind that these plans need to be something that any tournament director can afford and that do not take a great deal of time. We need one or two additional, simple, easy to implement procedures.
The solution to any problem - work, love, money, whatever - is to go fishing, and the worse the problem, the longer the trip should be. --John Gierach
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Re: making it tougher to cheat
[Re: J.P. Greeson]
#4093744
10/28/09 07:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,387
KingOutdoorsCo
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,387 |
I say you also poly both anglers, not just one. I also wonder if in Team events, you should have to have a partner, no fishing be yourself anymore. Allow one alternate per series.
Brant King King Outdoors 903-975-4909 brant@kingoutdoors.co wwww.kingoutdoors.co
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Re: making it tougher to cheat
[Re: KingOutdoorsCo]
#4093780
10/28/09 07:43 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,580
KevinT.
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,580 |
Brant you are trying to mess me up on Fork...not that I need any help with that.
Random sack fish is a good idea, a poly deeper in the field is also a good idea. I have always suspected that more cheating goes on for 2nd place vs 1st.
KT
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Re: making it tougher to cheat
[Re: KevinT.]
#4093803
10/28/09 07:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 789
Ronnieb7575
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 789 |
Just shoot'em...hell I will donate a box of 12ga. I promise you wont need more than one box.
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Re: making it tougher to cheat
[Re: KevinT.]
#4093807
10/28/09 07:51 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 487
ryanl
Angler
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Angler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 487 |
guys, everyone is up in a roar over roby, and should be, but there is no easy fix, it already takes 45 to 50 minutes, to wait on your checks by the time they give 1st place and big bass a polygraph, plus somtimes they do whats called a random poly whice is nor really so random. to do much more would cost a lot more, and more people to run the tournaments so pay outs would be less or entry fees up, and this economy would not allow raising of entry. I hate what robby did, because anytime you have guy who wins alot there is always people talking I wonder if he cheats oh he has to cheat and [censored] like that then you catch someone like Roby. If anything if someone is suspected of cheating, I say find a volunteer, to ride with them or follow them all day. I have had my fair share of comments and wispers about me in the past and I have openly said put somebody in my boat or follow me around I would look at as a blessing that maybe it would shut some people up. I agree things need to be done but in a pratical way.
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Re: making it tougher to cheat
[Re: ryanl]
#4093815
10/28/09 07:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 487
ryanl
Angler
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Angler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 487 |
oh and in team events if one angler fails and his partner passes they still win.
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Re: making it tougher to cheat
[Re: KingOutdoorsCo]
#4093826
10/28/09 07:55 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,255
buda13
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 21,255 |
I like the idea of throwing in a random polygraph, mabey the winner gets a poly, big bass winner gets a poly, and then a pick a random boat that is in the money and give them a poly. I know the polygraph isnt 100% correct, but doing a random along with a heightened awareness and some of the ideas JP has sounds like it would help. Whatever is done has to be a system that has very little potential for error, my biggest fear is people over doing it after all the buzz about this and an innocent person being falsely branded a cheater as a result. Thats something we all have to be very aware of. Yes we want to catch cheaters, but we cant be so reved up to do so that we ruin a good person in the process. My .02
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Re: making it tougher to cheat
[Re: buda13]
#4093845
10/28/09 07:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 789
Ronnieb7575
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 789 |
LOL...this is starting to become a lot like the Salem witch tryales. i see alot of HONEST hard working fishermen getting royally F'ed in the future.
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Re: making it tougher to cheat
[Re: buda13]
#4093850
10/28/09 07:59 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 377
Seagate
Angler
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Angler
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 377 |
Drug testing and background checks should clear out a few
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Re: making it tougher to cheat
[Re: J.P. Greeson]
#4093858
10/28/09 08:01 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 38,822
KingwoodCat
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 38,822 |
Maybe we can get some ideas going that would make it more difficult to cheat in tournaments. Here’s one I have to get the ball rolling.
Random fish checks might help. If you were to choose two or three sacks per tournament and put them aside for closer inspection, it should throw another fear factor in for potential cheaters.
I think you would choose two or three of the larger sacks that you estimate to be near the winning weight. Tournament anglers generally have an idea of the weight it is going to take to win – just take the weight people are discussing and set aside two or three sacks closest to that weight for inspection. An extra 100 gallon plastic tank isn’t going to break anyone and the inspections don’t have to be much more than visual and possibly a gentle squeeze of the belly.
You inspect the fish for alterations, look for signs that it may have spent time elsewhere before hitting the livewell and that they match the general characteristics of bass that populate the body of water where the tournament is held. You DQ for obvious alterations like tail clipping and keep records if you spot less obvious signs. Once there is suspicion of an angler, it has been proven that requiring an observer will stop them from fishing a particular trail if you can not come up with conclusive proof.
This process is even easier with big bass tournaments since you are only dealing with one fish per angler at a time.
People are always in a hurry to get the fish to a holding tank or back in the lake. The lees time a bass needs to hold its breath the better. Conversely, the rushed process makes it easier to weigh an altered bass. From weigh sack, to scales, and back to transport sack, there is really no opportunity to spot an inconsistency.
I’m not suggesting that polygraph test are discontinued, but that there might be a few simple procedures added to tournament to make it more difficult to cheat.
Keep in mind that these plans need to be something that any tournament director can afford and that do not take a great deal of time. We need one or two additional, simple, easy to implement procedures. Cheaters in tournaments are like car thieves, you can only try to keep the amateurs from cheating, cause the professionals (cheaters that is) will figure out a way to do it, but in the end most likely will get caught. I still think the Poly is the way to go. I doubt most people can beat it, but maybe there are a few that can. Ultimately they get caught too. I doubt that this was the first time this particular person has cheated, but given what I've heard about him, I don't think it was a regular practice. I remember a particular club that I used to fish with, who used to put on an open every year, and one year we DQ'd the top 3 finishers by asking one question on the Poly, "Have you ever cheated in a money tournament before?"
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him had better take a look at the American Indian".
Henry Ford
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Re: making it tougher to cheat
[Re: ryanl]
#4093868
10/28/09 08:03 PM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,474
Scott Gordon
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 5,474 |
That is some good information and recommendations, J.P.!
Scott Gordon Tournament Director Bass Pro Shops Cabelas Big Bass Tour scott@bigbasstour.com 214-801-2611
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Re: making it tougher to cheat
[Re: Seagate]
#4093869
10/28/09 08:03 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,580
KevinT.
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,580 |
Drug testing and background checks should clear out a few I can see it now... At the weigh in: Angler #32 step on up Please pee in the cup Take a seat and wait 10 minutes for the FBI check Sorry sir you have a substance in your urine DQ Ok Angler #33 Step on up..
KT
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Re: making it tougher to cheat
[Re: KingwoodCat]
#4093876
10/28/09 08:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 27,759
Fish Killer
Big Sexy
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Big Sexy
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 27,759 |
I like the idea of instead of live well checks, just open all the rod lockers and storage as well as the lvie wells.
With the way boats are made, it wouldn't take much to convert a compartment to a temporary livewell/wet storage area.
Just flip them all open like you do you livewell as you drive past the checkpoint.
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Re: making it tougher to cheat
[Re: Seagate]
#4093877
10/28/09 08:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 237
Mr Bill
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 237 |
The very best way, no joke is to put someone in the boat with the suspected cheaters....THIS WILL STOP THE CHEATING!! A/Q has done this in the past with very good results...
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Re: making it tougher to cheat
[Re: Fish Killer]
#4093890
10/28/09 08:08 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 377
Seagate
Angler
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Angler
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 377 |
I like the idea of instead of live well checks, just open all the rod lockers and storage as well as the lvie wells.
With the way boats are made, it wouldn't take much to convert a compartment to a temporary livewell/wet storage area.
Just flip them all open like you do you livewell as you drive past the checkpoint. Are you telling me that they dont check anglers boats before hand? I can see why somebody would cheat if they didnt. They do that in saltwater tournys
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