Guys I present this question to the board....
A customer of mine left his car at our shop for repair while he fished with a "Guide" on Lake Fork this past weekend. Well when he called on Tuesday I asked how he did, "The Guide did well but my friend and I didn't catch a fish".

Now if this indeed is true isn't this a cryin' shame???? Or am I out in left field on this. I thought most guides had a "no catch no pay" policy? How would you have handled this situation? and no I do not know what the "Guide's" name. (I don't think I would put it on here even if I did to be fair)

It is hard to say without knowing all the facts. Your customer may not know what he is doing and that is why he couldnt catch anything. Or the guide might have been a jerk and not done his job. Im not trying to say your customer didnt know what he was doing but I have always thought how hard it would be to be a bass guide because you would get so many of the guys who have no idea how to bass fish but assume they could go out with a guide and catch tons and tons of huge bass. If I went out with a guide and didnt catch anything after making a good effort I would at least expect him to offer to take me out again at no cost.

On boy this is going to be a long heated topic

Debra Hengst
http://www.debrahengst.com

I've hired several guides over the years. The "better" guides will fish until they have located some fish. Once they have done that they put their rods down so the customer can catch a few.

These are questions that should be asked before setting a date. This time of year on Fork I would imagine guides are fairly busy on Fork.

I would hate to see anyone pass judgment on this guide, there is just not enough information here, and we are only hearing one side of the argument.

I have only fished with a few and most are very interested it letting the customers catch fish, its plain good for business. Sometimes this just ain't going to happen though.

My deal is I do not fish, when I have customers in the boat. If I start getting the feeling they do not believe me about being on fish, I will pick up a rod to prove my point, but as a rule, I DO NOT fish against my clients.

My customer did tell me that they had fished with a guide on Fork the year before and they caught "Tons" of fish. Not exactly sure on the details I will find out more when he comes by and picks up the car and I will quiz him more for further details. So I don't think it was a case of him not knowing which end of the rod the fish will be on. I will just have to take him to a couple of stock tanks I have access to near by and see for myself if he has a clue. I will have to get back to you.

I hired a crappied guide last May. He fished with us, but not until after we asked him to.

I personally prefer to have the guide fish as well. Two heads and sets of hands are better than one at determining what the bite is like and when it has changed. A lot of guides do get folks in the boat that have inflated views of their own personal fishing ability. Just because the guide puts you on fish doesn't mean he can make YOU hook them and/or get them to the boat. Heck, some people won't even throw the baits that the guide tells them are working (I have a real hard time feeling sorry for these folks). Even with coaching some folks just don't get it down the first time when it comes to fishing a new technique either. Now if the guide fronted the boat on the customer and took all the quality casts without telling the client to cast there first, that is a different story. Plus you have to remember that guides have off days too. Just because they are guides doesn't mean they will catch 10 pounders every day or be able to catch 50 fish a day every day. There are a lot of variables that go into fishing and you can't get them all set perfect every day. If you go with a guide and zero then I guess it is up to you how to handle payment or a possible future trip, but if a guide busts his butt to get me on fish and we just have a tough day I pay him in full. That trip is fun and/or educational for us but it is the guides livelyhood. Just think how it would effect you if who you work for decided to withold pay for a day or two just because you had a bad one......it's the same thing. Sorry your buddy had a bad expereince but sometimes the guide is just doing the best he can.

I agree with the above, not enough information to make a decision on this incident. However, I'm sure most of you have had days where you could do no wrong and the other angler in the boat couldn't get a bite. Happened last weekend on Cypress Springs. My buddy fished for 2 days straight with only one bite, and he didn't catch that one. I boated about 13 on Sat and 7 on Sun. Took out a senior manager from the office several years ago to show him around Lake Ray Roberts. Early spring and I figured out where the bass were sitting and the right technique to catch them. I tried and tried to point out exactly what to look for and how to present the bait, even stopping several times and pointing to the exact location to throw the bait. He wasn't able to land the bait within 6 ft either side of the targets and only managed 2 bites all day, neither fish made it to the boat. After giving him 5 or 6 opportunities to hit the target, I would toss my bait in and BAM, fish on. I managed 15 bass with all but 1 of them being 3+ lbs. Same scenario on Fork a couple of years ago with 2 other friends.

I will not fish unless the client wants me to, even then if i start picking up more bites then the client i will change to a different bait so i dont out fish him or her,some times it hard not to catch more, after all they are paying me so they can catch the fish not so i can, once you have found a working pattern its time for them to strut there stuff,I have also had the client that thinks that his buddy that fished Indian Creek a few days ago knows where they are and when you go to a spot they want to go to there buddies area, even though they dont know where it is, but it is a better area than you have taken them to

Okay, I'm going to get roasted on this, but it is exactly how I feel. I fish for a living! I don't have any other occupation. Now, with that stated, I do fish along with my customers, unless they request that I do not. However, I do tell them areas and targets to throw at. Never do I fish wood, boat houses or brush-piles....I leave them for my customers. I simply throw into open areas, I'm sure my customers will even back me on this.

The reason I fish is because I have to be able to tell you (the customer) how the bite is and feels. Now, once I have established fish I normally switch to other baits and leave the baits that the fish are biting to my customers. With that said, even while we are establishing our bite for the day, they're throwing the exact same thing. Many, many, many times have I cut the bait off that I was throwing and tied it on my customers line.

Another reason I fish is because the bite does change through-out the day. How can I (as your guide) tell you that we need to switch things up if I'm not fishing too. By me fishing other baits than I have you throwing I can find other baits and techniques for you to throw and learn.

Hiring a guide who fishes and one who doesn't is your preference. If I hired a guide, and I do from time to time, but never on freshwater, I want him fishing too.

Bass Regards,

Jeff
Fishin' with Jeff
www.fishinwithjeff.com
www.jeffkirkwood.com

I prefer the guide to fish. I like to watch them fish to see how they work a certain bait. It may be the guys were just missing the fish. I have been with guides and they say some people cuss them when they pic up a rod. But me personally liek them to fish with me.

I am a bit different than a bass guide as I fish catfish only and typically fish multiple rods at once.

I always let my customers reel the fish in but I will set hooks and hand them rods if it happens that way. But They reel the fish in. The only reason I reel fish in is if everyone in the boat is already reeling fish in.

As far as not catching fish, it happens, and happens to everyone, regardless of what they say.

Fish getting lockjaw and not biting is just the nature of the beast and fortunately it does not happen a lot. I will say that I promise when clients are not catching fish, it is MUCH more frustrating and uncomfortable for the guide than it is for the client.

Some guides have no catch no pay, some do not. Most guides I know when they have a bad day will either offer another trip free, or discount the trip to a point to cover their expenses.

I have only been skunked a handful of times and the few times it has happened I have told my clients that there is no charge, and all but two of those times the client has paid me the full rate plus a tip because they said they got way more than their moneys worth in education.

www.txcatfishguide.com

A fishing guide is a FISHING guide not a catching
guide. We all have tough days. Some days, they
just have lockjaw for whatever reason. The client
should leave happy on a tough day or a great day.
I would offer you another trip on me or whatever
it takes for you to leave and not feel cheated.
If a guide goes the extra mile and no fish, that
should be considered. I make it a point to ask
my customer if he is happy with the trip before
he leaves. I have had a few skunkers. Never had
a complaint. Most said you went above and beyond
the call of duty and would not take a trip and
willing to pay for the next. One man tipped me
a considerable amount after a slow day and said
that's why they call it fishing. I will also take
up for the guide, some folks you can't make happy
on the best of days. Shame on the guide who lets
his customer leave unhappy.

David
WWW.DAVESGUIDESERVICE.NET