Just read and article about ethanol damaging Yahmaha outboards and a few others. I hear they will start adding this to gasoline. Anyone know anything about this? If this is true how will you know if the gas you are buying has this additve or not? Mechanics please advise.

Regg

I thought they said that the reason gas prices went up this time was because of a shortage of Ethenol. That would imply that it is already in our gas. Who knows how gas is made and why we keep having shortages of it's ingredients?

Jody

i have forgotten what is in gas- I thnk it is already a mixture of methanol, and ethanol- with ethanol controlling the octane rating. Thus a higher octane has more ehtanol contained in it. Yamaha motors will be damaged if you run high octane gas in them. You are supposed to run low octane, with ring free to reduce carbon deposits. Reason being is the pistons will heat up hot enough to melt a hole in them with high octane gas.

I read an article in the paper last night that said all the gas stations in Dallas, Tarrant, Denton and Collin Counties would have the gas with Ethanol in it by the end of the month. I talked to my boat service guy and he said gas pumps have a sticker on them indicating that ethanol is an ingredient in the gas and it should be no more than 10%. He also said I should pay the extra cents and buy my boat gas from Exxon, Chevron, Mobil, Shell and definitely not from QT, Racetrac and that type station. I have a Mercury EFI and have run Citgo regular or mid-grade in it ever since I bought it in '94. I have never had any fuel filter problems like those described in the Boating Magazine article.
c.j.

I am a geologist/project manager for an environmental consulting firm here in Carrollton. Gasoline currently contains the additive MTBE. MTBE is an oxygenate that helps the gasoline to burn cleaner in your engine and thus, assist in reducing emissions into the air. The problem with MTBE is that it has been determined to be carcinogenic. My firm specializes in leaking underground storage tanks (LUST) and MTBE is great for our business but bad for the environment. MTBE is a contaminant of concern for LUST sites due to soil and groundwater contamination. The main problems with MTBE are that MTBE is carcinogenic, highly mobile in groundwater and resists natural in-sutu bio-degradation. As a result, EPA is replacing MTBE with ethanol.

Non-attainment counties are currently required by law to switch to ethanol treated gasoline by June 1 (can sell MTBE treated gasoline until then). However, depending on the refinery each gas station uses, the refinery will either start shipping ethanol treated gasoline on April 10 or April 23. It is my understanding that all gasoline stations will eventually be switching from MTBE to ethanol.

Anyway, majority of USTs contain some sludge/scaling and water (water usually from condensation) at the base of the USTs (gasoline floats on water - sludge/scaling settles to bottom). Well, ethanol has a high affinity for water and the sludge/scaling can cause cross-contamination. If you do not get the water out of the USTs before receiving ethanol, the ethanol will diffuse out of the gasoline and into the water. Therefore, you no longer have re-formulated gasoline. Gasoline no longer has ethanol or has been reduced severly based on the amount of water in tank. So before the gas stations can accept the ethanol re-formulated gasoline, the USTs have to be cleaned (water and sludge/scale removed). Sludge/scaling has to be removed in order to prevent cross-contamination. Well, this is mostly done with the gasolins staying in the tanks. I believe any gas station found to be selling ethanol treated gasoline with water in the tanks will face stiff penalties.

The reason the boat service guy said to use the big boys is mainly due to the sludge/scaling issue. While the majority of the sludge will be removed during the cleaning process, some of the sludge may get suspended in the gasoline. All product lines have filters (or supposed to), but will not take the filters long to plug up if quite a bit of sludge suspended. The sludge/scaling then will pass right through the filters into your tank. Not good on your engine. This is the main reason why the boat service guy says to use the big boys. The big boys have the money to prevent this from happening.

This is my understanding of the situation and by no means do I consider the above to be 100% accurate. Above is for information purposes only and personal investigation required in order to confirm the information. Hope this helps clear some things up.

Thanks for the info Bigbassbritten. As I read the Boating magazine article it appears that this problem is occurring with HDPI's and 4-stroke engines which are newer than mine. However, I will be checking my fuel filter regularly to be sure no 'clogs' are forming. I also understand that gas now being tankered in will be the 'summer blend'. Will the 'winter blend' also contain ethanol?
c.j.

I may be off here (and for now I'm too lazy to check) but there's another problem with ethanol. Ethanol is an alcohol. Alcohols and petroleum-based lubricants don't always mix well together for long-term use. If you mix your own oil/gas, using gas with ethanol will lead to a breakdown of the oil mix, which in turn will lead to poor lubrication. So if you're using gas with ethanol in it, either 1) don't mix your own oil, or 2) don't let the mixed oil/gas stay in your tank very long before using it. How long is very long.....hmmm, not real sure, better safe than sorry I say.

Sorry for not being any better informed than that for now. For now, I'd go with whatever you mechanic recommends.

Bigbassbritten,
Excellent post! I even understood most of it...very informative and makes sense too. Thanks for the info!

in my owners manual of my 98 merc 150efi it states that using gas containing alcohol(ethanol or methanol) will cause:
1. corrosion of metal parts
2. deterioration of elastomers and plastic parts
3. wear & damage of internal engine parts
4. starting and operating difficulties
5. vapor lock or fuel starvation

this does not sound good to me as boat owner.

Big Mike, I have a '94 Merc 175 EFI. My engine has a water-separator fuel filter on it according to my mechanic. It's under the cowling and is not an in-line filter. He told me that if I got a 'clog' in the filter or system that it would cause the overheat sensor to go off. I haven't looked yet but he said I could see if there was water in the filter. And he has advised the use of a fuel stabilizer when I fill up or add gas in the appropriate amounts per gallon indicated on the stabilizer product. I usually put Stabil in for the winter months only, but guess I will be doing it now as I add gas. I run Regular or mid-grade (from a major oil co.), but here in the metroplex all gas has had MTBE or other additives in it for years. I have my engine serviced regularly and so far I haven't had any corrosion problems. Hope you don't have any problems with your engine. Since it is newer than mine it may be a little different.
c.j.

c.j. i also have the water seperator filter but this does NOT take out the ethonal. MTBE has been used for years but this is the first time Ethenol will be in all gasoline. i guess nobody knows what will happen but i do know its not good for outboard motors. any mechanics know anything else?

just a point of clarification to Big Mike's email on alcohol. None of the gas we buy today (or that we will buy tomorrow) contains pure alcohol. It is true that both methanol and ethanol are alcohols, but neither of these chemicals will be added directly into the gasoline pool. Current gas formulations use MTBE (Methyl Tertiary Butyl Ether)which is produced from Methanol. Future gas formulations will use ETBE (Ethyl Tertiary Butyl Ether)which is produced from Ethanol. Neither MTBE or ETBE is on alcohol. Big Mike, your owners manual is telling you not to use pure methanol or ethanol (like running a funny car at the drag strip).

Also, it is important to note that Ethanol is currently in very short supply. As a result, the Fed has relieved the oxygenate mandate in our fuel. What this means is that alot of the fuel you buy in the near term with have neither MTBE or ETBE.

Finally and most importantly, the elimination of MTBE from the gasoline pool without sufficient ETBE to replace it will substantially reduce the available supply of gasoline. As a result, many experts are expecting gasoline prices in the US to reach $3.50 by early summer.

Biglou, that's interesting. I had heard that prices were expected to go over $3. I have noticed though when I buy gas in E. Texas, it is the same price as it is here in the metroplex but I thought they didn't have to have the 'blends' or whatever we have to have here. Personally, I just think the whole thing is a rip off. I know I have been staying home a lot more and fishing less. Neither my truck nor my boat get very good mileage but at my age I'm not going to buy new ones. Thanks for the info.
c.j.

no, it says not to use gasoline with ANY alcohol in it or the above mentioned problems could occur! if thats all thats available, no more 10% ethanol or 5% methanol.never said anything about pure alcohol!

I hear you Big Mike...my point is that methanol is used in the manufacture of MTBE. Once it goes through the process to be converted into MTBE, its chemical composition is changed and it is no longer an alcohol.