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Re: MLF - BPT info for future
[Re: ChanceHuiet]
#14874766
10/23/23 12:32 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,577
SC-001
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,577 |
If Duckett ends up fishing next year every angler at MLF that DOESN'T revolt they have absolutely lost their damn minds and all spread of dignity. I'm sure he's hoping enough quit he won't get cut from BPT, I think only Biffle has a worse career average than Duckett for the 2024 cut.
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Re: MLF - BPT info for future
[Re: beartrap]
#14874861
10/23/23 02:32 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 17,705
Chris B
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 17,705 |
apparently MLF is filming team tournaments in the area around Longview right now.....this would be great opportunity for several of you to go up there and tell them what a terrible idea MLF is and how stupid they are for providing all that TV exposure for their sponsors......... Tell that to half the field that is losing their job after next year.
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Re: MLF - BPT info for future
[Re: Douglas J]
#14874960
10/23/23 03:51 AM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 272
Burgerboy
Angler
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Angler
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 272 |
You all are missing the point on the TOP 35 Career AOY. They will have a drop year or two in there for the guys, so a guy that in theory would not make it, most certainly could if he was to drop a season or two. My money is they do not have a formula yet as of now, because they have to do what they can to protect their owners, since the entire league is set up to protect old guys that are past their prime. If you look back independently they have almost always done whatever they possibly could to protect their org. guys from being cut. For example on the Tackle Warehouse, they did not roll down the list for double qualifiers, they simply protected a BPT guy that deserved to be cut based on their own fishing.
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Re: MLF - BPT info for future
[Re: Burgerboy]
#14874972
10/23/23 04:27 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,577
SC-001
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 7,577 |
You all are missing the point on the TOP 35 Career AOY. They will have a drop year or two in there for the guys, so a guy that in theory would not make it, most certainly could if he was to drop a season or two. My money is they do not have a formula yet as of now, because they have to do what they can to protect their owners, since the entire league is set up to protect old guys that are past their prime. If you look back independently they have almost always done whatever they possibly could to protect their org. guys from being cut. For example on the Tackle Warehouse, they did not roll down the list for double qualifiers, they simply protected a BPT guy that deserved to be cut based on their own fishing. For every 3 years fished they can drop their lowest AOY finish for the average. I assume they are only counting BPT AOY finishes since the league has been every fish counts all but one year. Next year will be the 6th season so those fishing BPT since 2019 will get 2 drop years, 2020 forward get 1 drop (think thats only Thrift/Dudley), this years rookies and next years rookies get no drops.
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Re: MLF - BPT info for future
[Re: SC-001]
#14874973
10/23/23 04:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 74,867
Mark Perry
Super Freak
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Super Freak
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 74,867 |
You all are missing the point on the TOP 35 Career AOY. They will have a drop year or two in there for the guys, so a guy that in theory would not make it, most certainly could if he was to drop a season or two. My money is they do not have a formula yet as of now, because they have to do what they can to protect their owners, since the entire league is set up to protect old guys that are past their prime. If you look back independently they have almost always done whatever they possibly could to protect their org. guys from being cut. For example on the Tackle Warehouse, they did not roll down the list for double qualifiers, they simply protected a BPT guy that deserved to be cut based on their own fishing. For every 3 years fished they can drop their lowest AOY finish for the average. I assume they are only counting BPT AOY finishes since the league has been every fish counts all but one year. Next year will be the 6th season so those fishing BPT since 2019 will get 2 drop years, 2020 forward get 1 drop (think thats only Thrift/Dudley), this years rookies and next years rookies get no drops. Yep. Stefan who is directly affected by this actually broke it down on a podcast or two.
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Re: MLF - BPT info for future
[Re: Burgerboy]
#14875014
10/23/23 10:54 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,833
grout-scout
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,833 |
You all are missing the point on the TOP 35 Career AOY. They will have a drop year or two in there for the guys, so a guy that in theory would not make it, most certainly could if he was to drop a season or two. My money is they do not have a formula yet as of now, because they have to do what they can to protect their owners, since the entire league is set up to protect old guys that are past their prime. If you look back independently they have almost always done whatever they possibly could to protect their org. guys from being cut. For example on the Tackle Warehouse, they did not roll down the list for double qualifiers, they simply protected a BPT guy that deserved to be cut based on their own fishing. Ummmmmmm, how’s anyone missing the point, they are dropping half the field no matter what. Will the guys fishing the “FLW” circuit get screwed? Absolutely, I can’t believe anyone will still be fishing it; but fishermen have proven time again & again to be quite stupid. Now the real point is how very few are watching it and they can’t get any non-endemic sponsors, because fishing is boring to watch.
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Re: MLF - BPT info for future
[Re: grout-scout]
#14875118
10/23/23 12:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,044
beartrap
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 8,044 |
You all are missing the point on the TOP 35 Career AOY. They will have a drop year or two in there for the guys, so a guy that in theory would not make it, most certainly could if he was to drop a season or two. My money is they do not have a formula yet as of now, because they have to do what they can to protect their owners, since the entire league is set up to protect old guys that are past their prime. If you look back independently they have almost always done whatever they possibly could to protect their org. guys from being cut. For example on the Tackle Warehouse, they did not roll down the list for double qualifiers, they simply protected a BPT guy that deserved to be cut based on their own fishing. Ummmmmmm, how’s anyone missing the point, they are dropping half the field no matter what. Will the guys fishing the “FLW” circuit get screwed? Absolutely, I can’t believe anyone will still be fishing it; but fishermen have proven time again & again to be quite stupid. Now the real point is how very few are watching it and they can’t get any non-endemic sponsors, because fishing is boring to watch. 24 out of their 51 corporate sponsors are non endemic....
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Re: MLF - BPT info for future
[Re: grout-scout]
#14875133
10/23/23 01:09 PM
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,677
TBassYates
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,677 |
fishermen have proven time again & again to be quite stupid.
That's a ridiculous statement.
Now the real point is how very few are watching it and they can’t get any non-endemic sponsors, because fishing is boring to watch.[/quote]
I don't feel like I am the only one who really enjoys watching fishing and I don't even care if it's a guy with his head buried on a FFS. I enjoy watching the different techniques used even if he is keying in on specific fish he can see on a screen.
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Re: MLF - BPT info for future
[Re: beartrap]
#14875150
10/23/23 01:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 74,867
Mark Perry
Super Freak
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Super Freak
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 74,867 |
You all are missing the point on the TOP 35 Career AOY. They will have a drop year or two in there for the guys, so a guy that in theory would not make it, most certainly could if he was to drop a season or two. My money is they do not have a formula yet as of now, because they have to do what they can to protect their owners, since the entire league is set up to protect old guys that are past their prime. If you look back independently they have almost always done whatever they possibly could to protect their org. guys from being cut. For example on the Tackle Warehouse, they did not roll down the list for double qualifiers, they simply protected a BPT guy that deserved to be cut based on their own fishing. Ummmmmmm, how’s anyone missing the point, they are dropping half the field no matter what. Will the guys fishing the “FLW” circuit get screwed? Absolutely, I can’t believe anyone will still be fishing it; but fishermen have proven time again & again to be quite stupid. Now the real point is how very few are watching it and they can’t get any non-endemic sponsors, because fishing is boring to watch. 24 out of their 51 corporate sponsors are non endemic.... For now. It's gonna be interesting to see how many current sponsors renew and stay on board and if they can attract new sponsors. This divide inside their organization us gonna affect that and having over 50 current sponsors abd still having what appears to be financial difficulties is not a good look.
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Re: MLF - BPT info for future
[Re: Douglas J]
#14875206
10/23/23 01:57 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,347
Mark Jones
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,347 |
Here's some points to consider in this dialogue. 1. None of the Pro Tours operate profitably, none of them. The Pro side is a loss leader and money is made at Expos (Classic/Redcrest), Magazine, TV, Triple A (Opens & Toyotas) and their grass roots leagues. This has been the case since the inception of the leagues because they can not monetize the Pro's entry fees, as they're paying them back all of them plus more. That's bad math and it will NEVER work. 2. MLF is simply implementing costs reductions to get the overall business profitable, this includes all of their leagues from Pro to Grass roots. It has to be done and it doesn't matter how ugly it is. They had plenty of runway but as with anything the runway runs out at some point. Cutting staff, production costs, travel costs, angler payouts, etc etc is the only way to get the job done. It is what it is. 3. FLW was 100% going to die if they didn't acquire it. The majority of the improvement work to the FLW side of the house is done. They arguably could have done some of it faster and the path to profitability would have arrived sooner. All of the FLW assets and leagues are doing much better. MLF is stronger because of this acquisition. 4. FFS is a problem for both leagues and is impacting viewership and it has to be addressed. 5. Every fish counts is 100% the best decision for MLF and it's not even close. Those who watch it, watch it for the excitement and the energy of the game play and the cut line. END OF STORY. The viewership will improve instantly no matter how many 5 fish people complain about it. They're still watching it. They caved to their anglers last year when they went to 5 fish and they shouldn't have. 6. A large majority of MLF sponsors prefer EFC and that's important given the revenue that comes from their sponsorship. Many of them joined MLF for this every reason. 7. Both leagues have a problem with their rules enforcement and sweeping things under the rug. They'll argue against it but they're not being honest with themselves. If you don't manage your rules with a "league first" mentality, then your angler base is going to be disgruntled and dysfunctional. it's cancerous and a real problem. 8. The forum boards and social are now back alive with everyone debating and that's good for viewership. If I ran BASS or MLF I'd pull some stunt like this every year. It's good for viewership and energy. 
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Re: MLF - BPT info for future
[Re: TBassYates]
#14875250
10/23/23 02:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,833
grout-scout
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 17,833 |
I don't feel like I am the only one who really enjoys watching fishing and I don't even care if it's a guy with his head buried on a FFS. I enjoy watching the different techniques used even if he is keying in on specific fish he can see on a screen.
You think they have great viewership numbers? If so, why are they losing money? The non-endemic sponsors they have aren’t covering diddly or they wouldn’t be going broke.
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Re: MLF - BPT info for future
[Re: Mark Jones]
#14875255
10/23/23 02:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 74,867
Mark Perry
Super Freak
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Super Freak
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 74,867 |
Here's some points to consider in this dialogue. 1. None of the Pro Tours operate profitably, none of them. The Pro side is a loss leader and money is made at Expos (Classic/Redcrest), Magazine, TV, Triple A (Opens & Toyotas) and their grass roots leagues. This has been the case since the inception of the leagues because they can not monetize the Pro's entry fees, as they're paying them back all of them plus more. That's bad math and it will NEVER work. 2. MLF is simply implementing costs reductions to get the overall business profitable, this includes all of their leagues from Pro to Grass roots. It has to be done and it doesn't matter how ugly it is. They had plenty of runway but as with anything the runway runs out at some point. Cutting staff, production costs, travel costs, angler payouts, etc etc is the only way to get the job done. It is what it is. 3. FLW was 100% going to die if they didn't acquire it. The majority of the improvement work to the FLW side of the house is done. They arguably could have done some of it faster and the path to profitability would have arrived sooner. All of the FLW assets and leagues are doing much better. MLF is stronger because of this acquisition. 4. FFS is a problem for both leagues and is impacting viewership and it has to be addressed. 5. Every fish counts is 100% the best decision for MLF and it's not even close. Those who watch it, watch it for the excitement and the energy of the game play and the cut line. END OF STORY. The viewership will improve instantly no matter how many 5 fish people complain about it. They're still watching it. They caved to their anglers last year when they went to 5 fish and they shouldn't have. 6. A large majority of MLF sponsors prefer EFC and that's important given the revenue that comes from their sponsorship. Many of them joined MLF for this every reason. 7. Both leagues have a problem with their rules enforcement and sweeping things under the rug. They'll argue against it but they're not being honest with themselves. If you don't manage your rules with a "league first" mentality, then your angler base is going to be disgruntled and dysfunctional. it's cancerous and a real problem. 8. The forum boards and social are now back alive with everyone debating and that's good for viewership. If I ran BASS or MLF I'd pull some stunt like this every year. It's good for viewership and energy.  On point #5 wasn't all of the polls that MLF and their pros posted in favor of the 5 fish deal? It would seem the fans were in favor of a 5 fish deal. Maybe it's not the format but FFS etc affecting the viewership? Also possible is that perhaps they have a PR problem and fans are not as engaged as they expect. I'm sure it will be pointed out that they know what the fans want and what is best for the fans which there seems be a disconnect. Over 5 years into this and they are still having to change things up all the time. Maybe its time to really listen to their fans a bit more. The fans might not be as clueless and dumb as some might think. Maybe embrace fans as partners in making this think work instead of projecting an image at times that seems they're a nuisance.
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Re: MLF - BPT info for future
[Re: Mark Jones]
#14875259
10/23/23 02:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 482
Richard C
Angler
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Angler
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 482 |
Here's some points to consider in this dialogue. 1. None of the Pro Tours operate profitably, none of them. The Pro side is a loss leader and money is made at Expos (Classic/Redcrest), Magazine, TV, Triple A (Opens & Toyotas) and their grass roots leagues. This has been the case since the inception of the leagues because they can not monetize the Pro's entry fees, as they're paying them back all of them plus more. That's bad math and it will NEVER work. 2. MLF is simply implementing costs reductions to get the overall business profitable, this includes all of their leagues from Pro to Grass roots. It has to be done and it doesn't matter how ugly it is. They had plenty of runway but as with anything the runway runs out at some point. Cutting staff, production costs, travel costs, angler payouts, etc etc is the only way to get the job done. It is what it is. 3. FLW was 100% going to die if they didn't acquire it. The majority of the improvement work to the FLW side of the house is done. They arguably could have done some of it faster and the path to profitability would have arrived sooner. All of the FLW assets and leagues are doing much better. MLF is stronger because of this acquisition. 4. FFS is a problem for both leagues and is impacting viewership and it has to be addressed. 5. Every fish counts is 100% the best decision for MLF and it's not even close. Those who watch it, watch it for the excitement and the energy of the game play and the cut line. END OF STORY. The viewership will improve instantly no matter how many 5 fish people complain about it. They're still watching it. They caved to their anglers last year when they went to 5 fish and they shouldn't have. 6. A large majority of MLF sponsors prefer EFC and that's important given the revenue that comes from their sponsorship. Many of them joined MLF for this every reason. 7. Both leagues have a problem with their rules enforcement and sweeping things under the rug. They'll argue against it but they're not being honest with themselves. If you don't manage your rules with a "league first" mentality, then your angler base is going to be disgruntled and dysfunctional. it's cancerous and a real problem. 8. The forum boards and social are now back alive with everyone debating and that's good for viewership. If I ran BASS or MLF I'd pull some stunt like this every year. It's good for viewership and energy.  This ^^^^
You might be from a Country founded by geniuses, but run by idiots if...
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Re: MLF - BPT info for future
[Re: Douglas J]
#14875271
10/23/23 02:50 PM
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Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,898
Lone_Wolf
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,898 |
Listen to the latests Milliken appearance on BTL, he explains how out of touch some endemic sponsors are with who move product volume. With social media influencer's Pro tour anglers aren't that important anymore and are becoming less valuable by the day to move product. The hammer already fell for MLF first but the downsizing for the Elite series is coming as well.
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Re: MLF - BPT info for future
[Re: Lone_Wolf]
#14875285
10/23/23 02:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 74,867
Mark Perry
Super Freak
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Super Freak
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 74,867 |
Listen to the latests Milliken appearance on BTL, he explains how out of touch some endemic sponsors are with who move product volume. With social media influencer's Pro tour anglers aren't that important anymore and are becoming less valuable by the day to move product. The hammer already fell for MLF first but the downsizing for the Elite series is coming as well. Your predictions are usually off.
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