|
Forums59
Topics1,057,471
Posts14,285,027
Members144,609
| |
Most Online39,925
Dec 30th, 2023
|
|
 Re: Just another reason why I will have pass on an EV..
[Re: gander]
#14424036
07/19/22 12:42 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,375
Jimbo
TFF Guru
|
|
TFF Guru
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,375 |
Right now as I type this we are being asked to cut electricity usage with a threat of rolling blackouts in 108 degree heat!
They can't keep up now, so what happens when the sheep start buying those EV's?
People need to wake up and hopefully send a message loud and clear in the fall!
Just one more cast!
|
|
|
Re: Just another reason why I will have pass on an EV..
[Re: patriot07]
#14424218
07/19/22 02:42 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 74,867
Mark Perry
Super Freak
|
|
Super Freak
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 74,867 |
I worked in electric power production for 35 years and. understand the systems pretty well. If Texas went totally solar there wouldn’t be
any room for all the houses we have in Texas. ERCOT’s has been over 79,000 Megawatts several times in the last 2 weeks.
It takes approximately 200 acres to produce 250 MW’s. That’s around 65,000 acres. Now the solar fields have to be in
certain areas to work right. So who decides who is giving up there land of houses to put in all of these solar panels.
Also you people East of 35 are SOL as the experts say the solar fields need to be in the western part of the state to get the proper angle of sun.
Now basically you can only send power 40 to 50 miles before you need a sub station to keep pushing the power down the line. Transmission lines was $1,000,000 a mile 10 years ago so I know it’s not cheaper now. Also a sub station is between
20 and 49 million 10 years ago. The Green Deal folks have no idea how electricity works or any knowledge of the systems needed. Elon Musk said he could power the entire US with a small corner of Utah. One of you is wrong I think My money is on machinist being right. He is not the type to say something unless he knows it's the truth. He has the experience in the field as well. He is a good man that spews no BS.
|
|
|
Re: Just another reason why I will have pass on an EV..
[Re: patriot07]
#14424225
07/19/22 02:52 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 43,907
Ghost4BH
TFF Guru
|
|
TFF Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 43,907 |
My 2014 Camry Hybrid cost $8k and has already paid for itself in lack of depreciation of other vehicles. Replacement battery from Toyota is around $3k and they last around 12-15 years. So about 5 years from now, I'll have to spend $3k to keep it going for another decade and a half...
The math of current Toyota hybrids is too good to pass up for most folks. I think we just have a plethora of folks who are not great at math. A new Camry in 2014 was $8k? Or are we talking pre-owned here?
|
|
|
Re: Just another reason why I will have pass on an EV..
[Re: Jimbo]
#14424300
07/19/22 03:36 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,166
Shallow Waters
Extreme Angler
|
|
Extreme Angler
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 1,166 |
Right now as I type this we are being asked to cut electricity usage with a threat of rolling blackouts in 108 degree heat!
They can't keep up now, so what happens when the sheep start buying those EV's?
People need to wake up and hopefully send a message loud and clear in the fall! This argument seems to keep coming back up, but people do realize it takes electricity to process fuel, transport, and dispense it??? The argument that EVs will be more burden than the alternatives is just silly. EVs are new, and have less resources, and still have some room to grow, but no product has ever came out with the best version first and get worse from there.
|
|
|
Re: Just another reason why I will have pass on an EV..
[Re: Shallow Waters]
#14424316
07/19/22 03:53 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 41,098
Allison1
TFF Guru
|
|
TFF Guru
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 41,098 |
Right now as I type this we are being asked to cut electricity usage with a threat of rolling blackouts in 108 degree heat!
They can't keep up now, so what happens when the sheep start buying those EV's?
People need to wake up and hopefully send a message loud and clear in the fall! This argument seems to keep coming back up, but people do realize it takes electricity to process fuel, transport, and dispense it??? The argument that EVs will be more burden than the alternatives is just silly. EVs are new, and have less resources, and still have some room to grow, but no product has ever came out with the best version first and get worse from there. The problem right now, if there is one, is that the planners don't have enough coal, nuclear and gas generation to power the grid when solar and wind power generation are nil. That does not happen much but in planning they have formulas that show how often the different sources produce and at what level. During the extreme heat and during the day when its hot, most of the solar is producing at maximum levels. The problem is not renewables, its the amount of non renewables that are on line until renewables can take over at a higher level.
|
|
|
Re: Just another reason why I will have pass on an EV..
[Re: Allison1]
#14424320
07/19/22 04:04 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 18,655
921 Phoenix
TFF Guru
|
|
TFF Guru
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 18,655 |
Right now as I type this we are being asked to cut electricity usage with a threat of rolling blackouts in 108 degree heat!
They can't keep up now, so what happens when the sheep start buying those EV's?
People need to wake up and hopefully send a message loud and clear in the fall! This argument seems to keep coming back up, but people do realize it takes electricity to process fuel, transport, and dispense it??? The argument that EVs will be more burden than the alternatives is just silly. EVs are new, and have less resources, and still have some room to grow, but no product has ever came out with the best version first and get worse from there. The problem right now, if there is one, is that the planners don't have enough coal, nuclear and gas generation to power the grid when solar and wind power generation are nil. That does not happen much but in planning they have formulas that show how often the different sources produce and at what level. During the extreme heat and during the day when its hot, most of the solar is producing at maximum levels. The problem is not renewables, its the amount of non renewables that are on line until renewables can take over at a higher level. This is not true the main problem is we don’t have infrastructure for enough power to use EV right now regardless of how much power we may or may not have. We haven’t even gotten to the point to worry about if it’s coal oil or solar power. We can’t deliver enough power for the consumption needed to power EV cars right now
|
|
|
Re: Just another reason why I will have pass on an EV..
[Re: Mckinneycrappiecatcher]
#14424488
07/19/22 06:47 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 4,287
1oldbassguy
TFF Team Angler
|
|
TFF Team Angler
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 4,287 |
As soon as a battery goes bad in an electric car the car is toast, it goes to the salvage lot and rots. With modern remanufacturing processes very little goes to waste. If you hold on to a vehicle as long as possible very little waste is returned in to the environment, engines, transmissions, differentials, transfer cases, starters, alternators, etc are all remanufactured and in a lot of cases 80-90% of the part is reused, a lot different than having to send a vehicle to the junk yard because the battery goes bad. so nobody ever replaces the battery in an EV ????? you can't seriously believe that
|
|
|
Re: Just another reason why I will have pass on an EV..
[Re: Bigbob_FTW]
#14424491
07/19/22 06:50 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,048
Mckinneycrappiecatcher
TFF Celebrity
|
|
TFF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,048 |
As soon as a battery goes bad in an electric car the car is toast, it goes to the salvage lot and rots. That's just 100% wrong. Replacement batteries range from $800 (refurb your old battery) to $1500 for a refurbished OEM unit to $3000 for a new OEM unit for my Camry hybrid. Rav4, Highlander, Prius are all about the same. And right now, they're lasting 12-15 years. Seeing folks on my hybrid facebook groups with 2008-2010 models still on original battery. Lots of 2006-2008 owners are finally replacing theirs. those aren't fully electric cars. BIG difference. Night and day difference.
|
|
|
Re: Just another reason why I will have pass on an EV..
[Re: gander]
#14424495
07/19/22 06:55 PM
|
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 32,782
HasBen
TFF Guru
|
|
TFF Guru
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 32,782 |
“ When you're racing, it's life. Anything that happens before or after is just waiting.”. Steve McQueen
|
|
|
Re: Just another reason why I will have pass on an EV..
[Re: Mark Perry]
#14424496
07/19/22 06:55 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 4,287
1oldbassguy
TFF Team Angler
|
|
TFF Team Angler
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 4,287 |
I worked in electric power production for 35 years and. understand the systems pretty well. If Texas went totally solar there wouldn’t be
any room for all the houses we have in Texas. ERCOT’s has been over 79,000 Megawatts several times in the last 2 weeks.
It takes approximately 200 acres to produce 250 MW’s. That’s around 65,000 acres. Now the solar fields have to be in
certain areas to work right. So who decides who is giving up there land of houses to put in all of these solar panels.
Also you people East of 35 are SOL as the experts say the solar fields need to be in the western part of the state to get the proper angle of sun.
Now basically you can only send power 40 to 50 miles before you need a sub station to keep pushing the power down the line. Transmission lines was $1,000,000 a mile 10 years ago so I know it’s not cheaper now. Also a sub station is between
20 and 49 million 10 years ago. The Green Deal folks have no idea how electricity works or any knowledge of the systems needed. Elon Musk said he could power the entire US with a small corner of Utah. One of you is wrong I think My money is on machinist being right. He is not the type to say something unless he knows it's the truth. He has the experience in the field as well. He is a good man that spews no BS. my money is the Genius with the Einstein IQ , more money than anyone on the planet and a guy that actually knows modern technology capability .
|
|
|
Re: Just another reason why I will have pass on an EV..
[Re: Mckinneycrappiecatcher]
#14424502
07/19/22 06:59 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 41,098
Allison1
TFF Guru
|
|
TFF Guru
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 41,098 |
As soon as a battery goes bad in an electric car the car is toast, it goes to the salvage lot and rots. That's just 100% wrong. Replacement batteries range from $800 (refurb your old battery) to $1500 for a refurbished OEM unit to $3000 for a new OEM unit for my Camry hybrid. Rav4, Highlander, Prius are all about the same. And right now, they're lasting 12-15 years. Seeing folks on my hybrid facebook groups with 2008-2010 models still on original battery. Lots of 2006-2008 owners are finally replacing theirs. those aren't fully electric cars. BIG difference. Night and day difference. Sure. My Camry battery is not near as big as an EV battery. I believe the issue with the 2014 in that article may be wrong. I believe you can buy most every EV battery refurbished for 2/3 the price of a factory battery. In the article it said Ford did not have a replacement but did not say they could not find another battery. So instead of 14k for a Ford battery they could have probably bought one for 10k or so, I believe. I remember back 10 years or so ago. They predicted battery prices would fall enough so that replacement costs would be much lower than they have turned out to be now. I hope that once there is large scale mining that production costs will keep going down.
|
|
|
Re: Just another reason why I will have pass on an EV..
[Re: gander]
#14424511
07/19/22 07:07 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,048
Mckinneycrappiecatcher
TFF Celebrity
|
|
TFF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 6,048 |
Just out of curiosity, has anyone seen the amount of earth that has to be moved to mine lithium? Lot of machinery and hydrocarbons burned to make that happen.
|
|
|
Re: Just another reason why I will have pass on an EV..
[Re: gander]
#14424533
07/19/22 07:30 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 23,786
J.P. Greeson
the janitor
|
|
the janitor
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 23,786 |
The batteries last longer than most think. https://news.energysage.com/how-lon...on,about%2013%2C500%20miles%20per%20yearTesla’s batteries are supposed to last for between 300,000 and 500,000 miles over the course of their life.As I have said before, I like the technology. We would own one, but not because it's a "green" vehicle. And they definitely have limitations right now. I'll be driving a gas truck until they have an EV that will tow a boat 500-600 miles. I'm not stopping every 200-300 miles for 45 min to an hour. I could live with stopping that long every 500-600 miles.
The solution to any problem - work, love, money, whatever - is to go fishing, and the worse the problem, the longer the trip should be. --John Gierach ![[Linked Image]](https://texasfishingforum.com/forums/pics/userpics/2019/09/full-13-25328-gco.jpg)
|
|
|
Re: Just another reason why I will have pass on an EV..
[Re: Mckinneycrappiecatcher]
#14424536
07/19/22 07:31 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 41,098
Allison1
TFF Guru
|
|
TFF Guru
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 41,098 |
Just out of curiosity, has anyone seen the amount of earth that has to be moved to mine lithium? Lot of machinery and hydrocarbons burned to make that happen. Yes. Good thing only 15% of the known resources are close enough to the surface to be mined. The rest comes from drilling and pumping water down the well, producing a brine that has lithium in it. This process lets the brine evaporate the water out in pools so they can extract several chemicals that remain. They have also found that they can get lithium out of geo thermal wells. Geo thermal is like getting almost free lithium since they use the hot liquid for energy production then its still good to get the lithium out of it.
|
|
|
Re: Just another reason why I will have pass on an EV..
[Re: Mckinneycrappiecatcher]
#14424570
07/19/22 08:03 PM
|
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 27,655
patriot07
TFF Guru
|
|
TFF Guru
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 27,655 |
As soon as a battery goes bad in an electric car the car is toast, it goes to the salvage lot and rots. That's just 100% wrong. Replacement batteries range from $800 (refurb your old battery) to $1500 for a refurbished OEM unit to $3000 for a new OEM unit for my Camry hybrid. Rav4, Highlander, Prius are all about the same. And right now, they're lasting 12-15 years. Seeing folks on my hybrid facebook groups with 2008-2010 models still on original battery. Lots of 2006-2008 owners are finally replacing theirs. those aren't fully electric cars. BIG difference. Night and day difference. The difference is Toyota versus Chevy/Tesla/Hyundai. Once these are mainstreamed, replacement cost will drop significantly. There is actually very little difference in the battery technology. Full EV just use battery banks with more capacity. Hybrid batteries used to cost close to $10k to refurb or replace when the Prius was new. Now they're $3k. You don't think the same is coming for EVs as they get more popular like hybrids did a decade before? Again, the false narratives driven by fear are not helpful for a rational discussion or the right's credibility on the topic. Lies from both sides are even worse than lies just from the left.
Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.
- Soren Kierkegaard
|
|
Moderated by banker-always fishing, chickenman, Derek 🐝, Duck_Hunter, Fish Killer, J-2, Jacob, Jons3825, JustWingem, Nocona Brian, Toon-Troller, Uncle Zeek, Weekender1
|
![[Linked Image]](https://texasfishingforum.com/forums/pics/userpics/2022/07/full-4123-146662-140f9a69_ef0e_45a4_9453_51e89ac0c5e3.jpeg)