I see it as a direct means of grace, meaning a real interaction with the living God. Same with Communion. Its not a ritual but a direct interaction with God. Just my

understand I’m not trying to win an argument here, with love I’m sharing what is the Truth, so you can learn and those who follow this who are unlearned can learn too… so I took your references and pulled out from my library my Dr. J. Vernon McGee through the Bible commentaries, to give a quick summary to show that the “Author - aka Holy Spirit” is not talking about the ritual of water baptism…right… at this time in history we have a lot of resources that explain the “context” of the situation as agreed upon by the majority of accepted theologians - not the cult’s and ism’s versions… nobody told you to ignore any passages for your own convenience - just learn what the Word of God is actually saying, not only for your own knowledge but when you share your not continuing falshoods… because if you are going to add water baptism to your means of salvation, whats next ? you going to add keeping the Sabbath too, and maybe circumcision ? because we can point to scriptures that say you have to keep them…right... Jesus freed us from the Law, saved us by grace - here is one to take at face value Ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.”…

keep seeking Him - God bless you, I hope you take this in the manner in which it was given.

to the versus your holding onto;
1 Peter 3:21
This is baptism of the Holy Spirit, not baptism with water - the Holy Spirit puts you into the body of believers.

Romans 6:3-7
this too is a misinterpreted verse, Paul's reference is the identification with Christ, has nothing to do with the ritual water baptism.

Mark 16:16
he is not saying baptism is needed for salvation, it is also not being said if you are not baptised you will be dammed.

Acts 2:37-38
This is pertaining to the Jews who knew the Word of God, who heard the message and knew the prophesies, that water baptism would be the evidence that they repented and they came to Christ, Peter says “ Repent and be baptised in the Name of Jesus Christ - not water - in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.

John 3:5
here again water is symbolic in its use, speaking of the Word of God, the Spirit of God washing the person with the Word of God making them Born Again - remember he is talking to Nicodemus a religious leader/teacher of the Jews…

J Vernon McGee- one day I’ll shake his hand and give him a hug.

I've done my own individual study of the passages and I'll stay with what God has given to us and not rely upon someone else's interpretation, but I appreciate the insight. As an example, Peter makes an analogy to Noah, but it is very clear (at least to me) that he was not talking about the world being saved through baptism of the Holy Spirit. But I am not here to argue either, just sharing where I am following my studies. The OP asked our opinions and reasoning and I gave it. That is what I do on a daily basis.

When it says “one baptism “ which one is it? Which one occurs first in a believer?

J. Varnan McGee's BIO reads well;

Dr. John Vernon McGee was an American ordained Presbyterian minister, pastor, Bible teacher, theologian, and radio minister.
Born: June 17, 1904, Hillsboro, TX
Died: December 1, 1988, Templeton, CA
Education: Dallas Theological Seminary, Columbia Theological Seminary, Rhodes College

I trust his knowledge of the Bible, having read every one of his commentary’s, I can safely say no red flags ever popped up with any of his doctrine, as well other theologians and pastors have agreed as well with the theology and interpretation of the Holy Scriptures…

1 Peter 3:20 “ Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.”

Once again here in the New Testament, this “water” is symbolic referring to the Holy Spirit, and the Ark is symbolic of Jesus Christ… because man did not listen to the preaching of Noah for the 120 years he was building the Ark, only Noah and his family were saved by their faith in God… remember the audience is Jewish who knew the Old Test. And heard the message of salvation through Jesus Christ…

when it comes to something as important as things of God,its best not to rely on opinion...people need Truth... thats just my opinion...

Agreed on opinions - and why I am not relying on anyone's but The Trinity and the OT and NT writers, even though there are plenty on both sides of the issue.

My take on this is simple. Yes they believe in salvation is through Jesus alone. However the stuff at birth is not a personal choice. Baptism is an outward expression for an inward change. Like a wedding ring, is it required for marriage? No, but it is showing the world a change in your life.

The extra stuff they do, are all man implemented that is done to earn favor or show being devout to following Christ. The Bible has an account from Jesus saying the Holy Spirit is within us to interceded on our behalf to God, and the confession to a man in a box is not going to help or make your confession to God any different. To me it feels like a way to hear and know what bad things people are doing. The pray to the Virgin Mary, but also to other saints. To me that is degrading/cheapening prayer as we have a direct connection to the God who created everything. God knows us and our hearts, what we will do or not do, that is why there is Grace. It is only by his grace we have forgiveness. He does not want robots or people living a specific way out of fear, but wants us to live a life more Christ link as a result of His love for us. You can not abuse grace, live like hell, being the same person prior to coming to Christ and have the reverence and love of Christ in you. This is something many struggle with daily, but thanks to grace we are forgiven.

I believe you are saved by the blood of Jesus for what he did on the cross and nothing else is needed for salvation but belief in what Jesus did for us.

The rest makes for good arguments


If it took baptism the thief on the cross with Jesus would not be in paradise today

You can be saved and not be a Christian, but you can't be a Christian if you aren't saved. A Christian is a follower of the teachings of Jesus Christ. Being saved is confessing with your mouth and believing in your heart that Jesus Christ is Lord. Many are saved that don't follow the teachings of Jesus Christ (Christian).

The demons also believe and tremble (James 2:19), so ______________??
Was the thief under the old covenant or the new? And, as I said before, God can grant salvation to any one He desires.

No argument, just things that I have pondered through the years.

Good words sir!

I don’t understand this logic it goes against everything I know about the Bible

You are correct. His post goes along with the new age where these people think Jesus loves them the way they are. Jesus demands repentance. Anyone that came to him, prostitute- whoever- they didn’t get to continue, they had to turn and follow him.

I believe the Bible teaches God has never sin nor caused anyone to sin. The Bible teaches you have to go go through Jesus to go to heaven so while God could save outside of that he won’t that would make him a liar and a sinner

And yes even Satan knows about God and Jesus even better then any of us he will never see heaven from inside for the same reason a lot from earth will not. They don’t believe in Jesus and willing to bow a knee
There is a difference in believing God and Jesus exist and believing in Jesus

A young kid will gladly jump off a hill to daddy arms because they know he will catch them they may not jump into a strangers arms because they don’t know them

Every knee will bend in the end and only those who willing bend those knees while you still have a choice is the difference