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Re: SAL genetics
[Re: Jarrett Latta]
#14261805
01/24/22 11:08 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,474
MagFluker
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,474 |
And I think it makes a huge difference stocking fingerlings versus fry. If tpw could ever get the cost down to make it feasible to stock 100's of thousands of fingerlings versus fry, you'd see substantial impacts in my opinion. Given the lake has adequate water and cover at the time.... How many fingerlings and young adult SAL were put into Bois D'arc?
Kyle in NC
PB 11.1
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Re: SAL genetics
[Re: kingfish_1970]
#14261908
01/25/22 12:37 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,792
Ken A.
Groovy
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Groovy
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,792 |
A picture of the fish and the scale in the boat, a kiss on her head , and back she goes in Ivie. Have to agree...think about how many times that fish has spawned BEFORE she was a SAL. Same genetics all her life. Leave em in there. You are missing the whole point of the SAL program. The program is designed to spread those Fla genes to other lakes that would otherwise never have them or would be diluted over the years. That's why they plant the SAL fingerlings all over the state ecah year. I agree the fish would most likely grow larger if left alone in its home lake but what folks fail to understand is how many lakes have benefited from the SAL program. If you have ever caught a bass over 8# from a public lake it was most likely due to the SAL program boosting the genes of the fish in that lake to allow you to enjoy the big bass you caught. Double digit bass do not normally occur in Texas with native fish.
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Re: SAL genetics
[Re: MagFluker]
#14261910
01/25/22 12:39 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,792
Ken A.
Groovy
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Groovy
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,792 |
And I think it makes a huge difference stocking fingerlings versus fry. If tpw could ever get the cost down to make it feasible to stock 100's of thousands of fingerlings versus fry, you'd see substantial impacts in my opinion. Given the lake has adequate water and cover at the time.... How many fingerlings and young adult SAL were put into Bois D'arc? https://tpwd.texas.gov/fishboat/fish/action/stock_bywater.php?WB_code=2067
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Re: SAL genetics
[Re: grout-scout]
#14261941
01/25/22 01:07 AM
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Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 21
McCombs
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Jul 2021
Posts: 21 |
While it might be a good marketing plan and conceptually it makes sense, the data doesn’t seem to justify it. You want bigger bass, give them more food. The “new lake” phenomenon plus standard Florida genetics is probably responsible for far more SALs than the SAL program. Is anyone aware of TPWD taking a couple of fishless stock ponds, putting 100 SAL fry in one, 100 standard Floridas in the other, feeding them identical diets for 5 years and seeing what the condition of fish are at the end? My suspicion is whatever benefit the SALs provide is small, and resources devoted to increasing calories of forage per acre would have more impact.
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Re: SAL genetics
[Re: grout-scout]
#14262024
01/25/22 02:19 AM
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 174
Littledog
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 174 |
Fellas Fellas . . . drink the cool-aid. Covid will kill us all and SAL program is wonderfull!!
Besides, when we ask "where do the millions of dollars collected from boat registrations and fishing licenses go?" TPWD can say "Well SAL program of course!!"
"Just quiet down and keep fishing, we've got weeds to poison."
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Re: SAL genetics
[Re: McCombs]
#14262034
01/25/22 02:23 AM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 18,021
grout-scout
OP
TFF Guru
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OP
TFF Guru
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 18,021 |
While it might be a good marketing plan and conceptually it makes sense, the data doesn’t seem to justify it. You want bigger bass, give them more food. The “new lake” phenomenon plus standard Florida genetics is probably responsible for far more SALs than the SAL program. Is anyone aware of TPWD taking a couple of fishless stock ponds, putting 100 SAL fry in one, 100 standard Floridas in the other, feeding them identical diets for 5 years and seeing what the condition of fish are at the end? My suspicion is whatever benefit the SALs provide is small, and resources devoted to increasing calories of forage per acre would have more impact. That would be an awesome study!
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Re: SAL genetics
[Re: Ken A.]
#14262586
01/25/22 04:39 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,474
MagFluker
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,474 |
And I think it makes a huge difference stocking fingerlings versus fry. If tpw could ever get the cost down to make it feasible to stock 100's of thousands of fingerlings versus fry, you'd see substantial impacts in my opinion. Given the lake has adequate water and cover at the time.... How many fingerlings and young adult SAL were put into Bois D'arc? https://tpwd.texas.gov/fishboat/fish/action/stock_bywater.php?WB_code=2067 Thanks Ken, making plans for trips there in 2027-2030 lol
Last edited by MagFluker; 01/25/22 04:39 PM.
Kyle in NC
PB 11.1
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Re: SAL genetics
[Re: Ken A.]
#14262652
01/25/22 05:14 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,481
kscatman76
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 2,481 |
Does anyone know how long it takes to show wether or not the Ivie bass share genetics with previous SAL? You know, like maybe they are offspring from a previous entry.
I know we have beat this horse and we can go for pages & pages, but I’d like an answer to the question above if possible. To answer your question, 10 years ago there was a load of SAL fingerlings stocked into OH Ivie. Whether or not any of the recent SAL's were from that group remains to be seen. We will know in a few months after DNA tests have been run. I read a couple of times that a Florida Strain Bass grows about 1 pound a year average and live to approx 15 years old. So these SAL off spring stocked these years could possibly live until 2025 or 2026. So say one of these 15 pounders can live another 4 years or so and gain a pound or more a year.........you do the math. I think there is a real chance a state record will be broken in the next couple of years there. I know Ben Milliken on Bass Talk Live a few weeks ago stated he thinks he has seen 6 or 7 bass in the category of20 pounds on his livescope in the last year. Like him or hate him he's done and showed enough in the last couple of years that its hard to totally dismiss those claims.
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Re: SAL genetics
[Re: grout-scout]
#14262728
01/25/22 05:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,431
ogles824 (aka Lakewaydr50)
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,431 |
I'd like to see a more fingerling stocking myself, it just makes sense. I did a lot of research on this issue while I was out of the bass fishing circle and one of the things I come across was fry stocking generally yields only about 2% or less of actual bass reaching maturity because they can be consumed by almost every fish in the body of water they were stocked. Fingerlings on the other hand have a much higher survival rate. I can't remember the numbers but much better. As McComb's pointed out as well diet is obviously going to make a difference as well. I don't know what TP&W's stance is at the moment but a few years ago they were pushing for folks to remove legal under slot fish on Fork to increase the forage available to the larger fish to create more trophy fish.
2012 ZX200 Skeeter 2012 Yamaha 200 SHO Isaiah 40:31 "but those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles, they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint. Proud student of the Pro Staffer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzwF72B2F2w&t=14s
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Re: SAL genetics
[Re: McCombs]
#14262753
01/25/22 06:11 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,860
NoWeighers
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,860 |
While it might be a good marketing plan and conceptually it makes sense, the data doesn’t seem to justify it. You want bigger bass, give them more food. The “new lake” phenomenon plus standard Florida genetics is probably responsible for far more SALs than the SAL program. Is anyone aware of TPWD taking a couple of fishless stock ponds, putting 100 SAL fry in one, 100 standard Floridas in the other, feeding them identical diets for 5 years and seeing what the condition of fish are at the end? My suspicion is whatever benefit the SALs provide is small, and resources devoted to increasing calories of forage per acre would have more impact. Remember years back when I was really on Sharelunkers [censored]? And I asked for specifically this? This study has been undertaken.. Plan was for a four year study comparing Pure Floridas to SL fish to compare growth rates. Well we still haven't seen the results of this experiment.. I think I know why.. Have made a request with PAW for results..
James Bendele Falcon Lake Tackle "On the eighth day, Man invented the Fish Hook."
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Re: SAL genetics
[Re: NoWeighers]
#14262776
01/25/22 06:30 PM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 638
LakeForkGroupie
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 638 |
While it might be a good marketing plan and conceptually it makes sense, the data doesn’t seem to justify it. You want bigger bass, give them more food. The “new lake” phenomenon plus standard Florida genetics is probably responsible for far more SALs than the SAL program. Is anyone aware of TPWD taking a couple of fishless stock ponds, putting 100 SAL fry in one, 100 standard Floridas in the other, feeding them identical diets for 5 years and seeing what the condition of fish are at the end? My suspicion is whatever benefit the SALs provide is small, and resources devoted to increasing calories of forage per acre would have more impact. Remember years back when I was really on Sharelunkers [censored]? And I asked for specifically this? This study has been undertaken.. Plan was for a four year study comparing Pure Floridas to SL fish to compare growth rates. Well we still haven't seen the results of this experiment.. I think I know why.. Have made a request with PAW for results.. Didn't they do this already? Operation World Record. They stocked about 6 small lakes with Florida's, SAL's and the years down the road when they take surveys they find out the genetics of each fish and the compare growth rates between native fish, Florida fish and SAL fish.
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Re: SAL genetics
[Re: LakeForkGroupie]
#14262833
01/25/22 07:00 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,860
NoWeighers
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,860 |
They did a study/comparison of native bass and SAL bass.. And no doubt the Florida SL bass grew faster..
No surprise there..
James Bendele Falcon Lake Tackle "On the eighth day, Man invented the Fish Hook."
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Re: SAL genetics
[Re: grout-scout]
#14262867
01/25/22 07:18 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 45,817
CCTX
mapquest
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mapquest
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 45,817 |
In many animal and plant species the first generation (F1 crosses) display hybrid vigor; growing faster and bigger than either pure parent. However, this hybridization size benefit disappears with the next and subsequent generations.
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Re: SAL genetics
[Re: grout-scout]
#14267458
01/29/22 11:52 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 992
LeonSulak
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 992 |
Tyler’s video showed a picture of a SAL lineage on the wall at the Athens center. Showed a bunch of offspring off of one fish.
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Re: SAL genetics
[Re: grout-scout]
#14267466
01/30/22 12:03 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,756
361V
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,756 |
Prolly underthinking this but it appears(unarguably to me) that the states stocking of Florida strain bass in Texas was and is a HUGE success. The SAL program? Maybe not so much?
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