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Re: Thoughts on how we can get TPWD to stop ruining lakes? [Re: D Forney] #13508731 04/08/20 07:04 PM
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CCTX Online Content
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Lakes are for drinking water
Not many better natural water filters than hydrilla

I understand a very small amount of physical removal of hydrilla to keep the water pipes flowing

Salvania doesn’t respond well to spraying (but all the other water filtering vegetation gets wiped out), it needs to be physically corralled and physically removed, then burned.


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Re: Thoughts on how we can get TPWD to stop ruining lakes? [Re: D Forney] #13508747 04/08/20 07:16 PM
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It's not just TPWD that Texas anglers are up against. On Lake Austin, it was the land developers and real estate agents with deep, deep pockets and well-established connections. They organized what appeared to be a concerned citizens group to privately pay for and stock Lake Austin with triploid grass carp, with TPWD and LCRA's blessing. The TPWD's chief biologist was constantly being pressured to put more carp in, more carp, more carp... until *all* the vegetation on the lake had disappeared, not just the hydrilla that the grass carp were supposed to munch on, to the exclusion of native vegetation. There's an infamous quote from one of the TPWD biologists that the carp would jump over the Tom Miller dam rather than eat milfoil or other native grass species. Well, with the flooding we had here in Central Texas a few years back, they didn't need to jump over - they were released into Ladybird Lake, and further down the Lower Colorado River, with devastating results. So, rather than ruin one of, if not THE best trophy bass lake at the time in Texas, the grass carp stocking destroyed bass fishing on three waterways. Great job, guys. I don't entirely lay the blame at TPWD's feet, either. I'll save that vitriol for Eric Moreland, the land mogul with the deep pockets and a vested interest in selling mansions to the well-heeled Austinites with wakeboats and no love of bass fishermen or their boats. Guess who's on the LCRA board of directors, as well? If you guessed Eric Moreland, you'd be correct.

Guys, the one thing that money does is that it organizes and pays for influence. That's one commodity that bass anglers lack - organizational skills, plus political will. I'm just as guilty as anyone as I write this post, since it's easier to bitch than it is to get a disparate bunch of rugged individualists to get together to make their voice heard by those with political power. But maybe that'll change. I'm not holding my breath, though.

Re: Thoughts on how we can get TPWD to stop ruining lakes? [Re: D Forney] #13508756 04/08/20 07:21 PM
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Poison Strawberry flavored wheatie balls??

Re: Thoughts on how we can get TPWD to stop ruining lakes? [Re: Chris B] #13508763 04/08/20 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Chris B
Originally Posted by LA Ron
You Texas Boys don't know when you have it good
TPWL has done a great job all over the state when it comes to fishing for bass. Bass don't stop being in a lake because there is no grass. They relate to different types of structure They still bite in stained or muddy water. They still spawn in shallow water. Just go fishing and adjust. I come to Fork six to eight times a year. Love catching those five pound and up toads. No way to do that in Louisiana ! Thumbs up to TPWL for the job they do for the bass fishermen of our whole country. Stay Safe!

Next time you come to Texas make sure and fish Purtis Creek and Lake Austin and then get back with us. These lakes were producing 40 pound bags before the grass was killed. Be lucky to catch 12 pounds now.

There are a lot of Texas Lakes on my bucket list. Isn't Purtis close to Lake Athens ? I heard it is full of grass and big bass. I like to fish it also. Hard to get away from Fork!

Last edited by LA Ron; 04/08/20 07:26 PM. Reason: spelling
Re: Thoughts on how we can get TPWD to stop ruining lakes? [Re: D Forney] #13508768 04/08/20 07:28 PM
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I's that dang Carole Baskin fault !


Re: Thoughts on how we can get TPWD to stop ruining lakes? [Re: SuperSpookJr] #13508772 04/08/20 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperSpookJr
It's not just TPWD that Texas anglers are up against. On Lake Austin, it was the land developers and real estate agents with deep, deep pockets and well-established connections. They organized what appeared to be a concerned citizens group to privately pay for and stock Lake Austin with triploid grass carp, with TPWD and LCRA's blessing. The TPWD's chief biologist was constantly being pressured to put more carp in, more carp, more carp... until *all* the vegetation on the lake had disappeared, not just the hydrilla that the grass carp were supposed to munch on, to the exclusion of native vegetation. There's an infamous quote from one of the TPWD biologists that the carp would jump over the Tom Miller dam rather than eat milfoil or other native grass species. Well, with the flooding we had here in Central Texas a few years back, they didn't need to jump over - they were released into Ladybird Lake, and further down the Lower Colorado River, with devastating results. So, rather than ruin one of, if not THE best trophy bass lake at the time in Texas, the grass carp stocking destroyed bass fishing on three waterways. Great job, guys. I don't entirely lay the blame at TPWD's feet, either. I'll save that vitriol for Eric Moreland, the land mogul with the deep pockets and a vested interest in selling mansions to the well-heeled Austinites with wakeboats and no love of bass fishermen or their boats. Guess who's on the LCRA board of directors, as well? If you guessed Eric Moreland, you'd be correct.

Guys, the one thing that money does is that it organizes and pays for influence. That's one commodity that bass anglers lack - organizational skills, plus political will. I'm just as guilty as anyone as I write this post, since it's easier to bitch than it is to get a disparate bunch of rugged individualists to get together to make their voice heard by those with political power. But maybe that'll change. I'm not holding my breath, though.


All this^^

Those carp would literally eat grass as it was blown into the lake from the landscapers mowing the multi million dollar weekend homes cause they had nothing else to eat. I assume the giant ones that are left eat decaying leaf matter cause that's really all that is left. When the water does come up a little, not often since it's a constant level lake, I've watched them eat leaves and twigs hanging down into the water. They'd even crush my frog. Sad deal what they did to that lake. A hydrilla harvester would've been much better the way the grass grew around the lake. If you haven't looked, go look at TTZ as far back as they have it posted and look at fish pics and tournament results. Not sure many other lakes had more big fish per acre than Austin

Re: Thoughts on how we can get TPWD to stop ruining lakes? [Re: D Forney] #13508773 04/08/20 07:30 PM
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Whatever happened to the hydrilla removing boats they used to use in East Texas? They worked great for removing hydrilla in certain areas without wiping out the entire lake!

Re: Thoughts on how we can get TPWD to stop ruining lakes? [Re: D Forney] #13508822 04/08/20 07:59 PM
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On the Lake Austin issue. I spoke with a private lake management company that declined the contract to stock Lake Austin because the request was 6-10x the amount of carp recommended. Conroe has actually been destroyed twice by grass carp. Late 80's early 90's and again in the 2000's. To the poster that said the fish are still there? That is incorrect. The entire food chain is effected by poor spawn conditions with no where for hatch to hide. It takes a couple years but the grass removal eventually kills a lake.

Re: Thoughts on how we can get TPWD to stop ruining lakes? [Re: D Forney] #13508853 04/08/20 08:13 PM
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It always comes down to the almighty $ guys. Skiers pleasure boaters etc. spend ten times what fishermen do at a lake. They buy gas at on lake sights, they don't care how much it costs. They park their massive boats at marinas and pay huge rent. They also hate grass, they cant swim it tickles their feet or whatever so they complain to whoever then marina owners get involved and boom no more grass. We as fishermen are the bottom of the food chain unfortunately. Look at Joe Pool, the same as all the others mentioned. Theres 100 pleasure boats for every one bassboat out there hence no grass.


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Re: Thoughts on how we can get TPWD to stop ruining lakes? [Re: D Forney] #13508880 04/08/20 08:31 PM
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Complete side note. I have about a 20 acre lake that’s absolutely overrun with hydrilla to the point all you can throw is a top water in 75 percent of the lake. I thought about getting a couple sterile carp but after reading this, maybe not. Any suggestions? I don’t want to get rid of the hydrilla, just control it.

Last edited by dillydilly24; 04/08/20 08:32 PM.

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Re: Thoughts on how we can get TPWD to stop ruining lakes? [Re: D Forney] #13508964 04/08/20 09:31 PM
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Law suit is the only way to get them to stop spraying.

Re: Thoughts on how we can get TPWD to stop ruining lakes? [Re: H2O Seeker] #13509045 04/08/20 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by H2O Seeker
Originally Posted by CCTX
Zero homeowners on Purtis Creek
As biologists, they made a disastrous rookie mistake underestimating the power of introducing a creature into a forage rich environment. Their malpractice included acting aggressively when not knowing the voracity and lifespan of these grass carp.
You ever see the movie Jurassic Park?


I was living in Houston and fished Conroe quite a bit when the discussion started about introducing triploid (sterile) grass carp into the equation to "control" hydrilla. The Asian carp introduced not only controlled the hydrilla but found other means of survival after their preferred food source was depleted and contine to thrive.

Not to mention that some where along the evolution of this program a decision maker was convinced that establishing a 'few' diploid Asian carp would not be a bad idea. Now there is an exotic species in an environment with a preferred food source that can grow 12 months out of the year AND can now reproduce. Jurassic Park is a great analogy.


It would be great if TPWD would "control" things. I don't think they know how to spell the word. They only seem to know how to decimate. Take Lake Conroe. They could have come to a somewhat happy medium by only spraying below the 1097 bridge. That way the ski-fleas would have their open, clear water and the fisherman would have their fishing territory. But no, they not only sprayed but they let triploid carp in. Way too many carp. These carp don't know boundaries. They stripped every square foot of the beautiful, green vegetation in Lake Paula from one year to the next. There are no rec boaters in there. That's what you call "decimation".


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Re: Thoughts on how we can get TPWD to stop ruining lakes? [Re: D Forney] #13509058 04/08/20 10:45 PM
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I have respect for the TPWD ,but not when it comes to spraying grass or putting grass carp in a lake they don't know what they are doing, years ago Cedar Creek had grass all in it they killed it , and that lake was off for a few years. Now I have a question I don't understand why a lake that has had so much grass in after they spray it why doesn't some of it come back?

Re: Thoughts on how we can get TPWD to stop ruining lakes? [Re: D Forney] #13509063 04/08/20 10:49 PM
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the chemicals used stay active in the bottom soil for years.

Re: Thoughts on how we can get TPWD to stop ruining lakes? [Re: buda13] #13509086 04/08/20 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by buda13
Originally Posted by CCTX
Zero homeowners on Purtis Creek
As biologists, they made a disastrous rookie mistake underestimating the power of introducing a creature into a forage rich environment. Their malpractice included acting aggressively when not knowing the voracity and lifespan of these grass carp.
You ever see the movie Jurassic Park?


Purtis Creek is a campground... not much fun to camp at a lake you can’t even bank fish on because the first 20 yards of shore is matted hydrilla. I loved fishing it too, but it’s not all about just you and I.

But Purtis was managed initially as a trophy bass fishery ALSO. Worked for a while. They pretty much took that part of the “purpose” out of the mix. Used to be some huge bass caught by “bank”fishermen from those lighted piers. I will always try to see the various views on this topic. I remember when Cedar Creek was covered w/hydrilla. It was a great fishery and the water was surprisingly clear. I also know that on one of the most residentially developed lakes in Texas the home owners in shallow coves could not even get their boats out of slips because of the matted hydrilla. Water quality went down hill as did the bass fishing when it was eradicated. But the pleasure boats could utilize their properties. “Balance”. My issue with TPWD is their seemingly “all or nothing” stance on this “invasive non-indigenous” weed. It’s as if nothing is learned by some of the poorly planed actions that have taken place through the years. Lake Austin, Gibbons Creek.....and yes Purtis Creek in my opinion. I have no proof that they do not study some of these(many) mistakes but it sure doesn't seem like it.

Last edited by 361V; 04/08/20 11:27 PM.
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