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Re: She’s guilty
[Re: Droyhef]
#13300545
10/03/19 02:52 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 39,479
Dan90210 ☮
Jr Deputy Dan
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Jr Deputy Dan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 39,479 |
I hate that bigbob didn't answer my question - I'd be willing to take an answer from anyone who agrees with the murder conviction and 10 year sentence - what is the purpose of the punishment?
I'll go ahead and take away the 2 reasons you're probably thinking. It's not for "justice". She didn't intend to kill him and putting her away isn't going to bring him back, and honestly it's not even going to bring peace to the family. My uncle was murdered and I'm very aware of what these situations are like first-hand. The idea that putting someone away somehow brings long-term peace to the victim's family is utter nonsense.
Second, it's not to deter future crime. Nobody is going to intentionally try to do what she did with zero connection to the victim. It could accidentally happen again, but putting her away isn't going to stop that.
So, let's hear it. Our government is incarcerating this woman, guarding her, and feeding her 3 meals a day for a decade. I'd like to hear what kind of ROI the taxpayers are getting on that. Sir, no punishment is going to undo any crime. The facts of this case are that she admitted she intended to kill him in court. Words matter. A series of events led her to the victims front door. She made a poor judgement call by entering what she perceived as her apartment with an open door. Whatever circumstances caused her to end up ay the wrong door dont justify the next steps. As a first responder she would have been trained to assess a cituation as best as possible before responding. An open door too your apartment is not an emergency, and it doesnt warrant imediate entry by one person with weapons drawn. Had she stoped to make an assessment she would have likely noticed that it was the wrong apartment. 2nd, protocol would have been too call for backup, again an open door is not an emergency, immediate entry is not justified. During the time waiting on backup she may have noticed it the wrong apartment. These are 2 blown opportunities to catch the error, both are mistakes. Since she did neither of those things she still should have announced her presence before entering. Miss #3. Three big mistskes/neglegent acts. Now she goes in and shoots a man eating a bowl of ice cream. She makes these three errors in quick succession and then shoots a man. When questioned she says she shot to kill. That is not manslaughter. Manslaughter is when death wasnt the intent. The lack of regard for protocol and poor judgement put her in a situation where she shot man. Mistakes like that have consequences. Something like this cant get a free pass. What if it was her apartment and she walked into an ambush instead of an innocent mans apartment? What if the person who lived in the apartment shot her instead? What if the person living there tried to defend himslef and hit an innocent bystander? What if she hit an innocent bystander instead of the victim or and the victim? Its murder because of the distegard for protocol, poor decisions, and her own words about intent to kill. The facts of this case justify punishment in my mind. I thought manslaughter too until i thought more about it this morning. YOU ARE RIGHT! patriot is wrong. Judge Dan has ruled!!!!!!! Court is adjourned!
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Re: She’s guilty
[Re: beartrap]
#13300546
10/03/19 02:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,380
barndoor
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,380 |
l her working a 13 1/2 hour day which lowered her alertness and ability to think quickly, . She was very alert and thinking about some D. She was sexting a married man hooking up a booty call. black men likely account for over 90% of burglaries in Dallas area Wow! Over 90% of the burglaries in Dallas are committed by black men.
Last edited by barndoor; 10/03/19 02:55 PM.
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Re: She’s guilty
[Re: patriot07]
#13300549
10/03/19 02:56 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 29,881
Duck_Hunter
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 29,881 |
Hell guy, you could say that about any crime. Smdh. No, because most punishment is meant to deter future crime from other potential perps. This was 100% accidental. You're not ever going to deter this from happening in the future. So punishment doesn't make basic common sense here because you can't accomplish the most basic purpose of it. “...most punishment is meant to deter future crime from other potential perps.” I wish you had been in this thread from the beginning. It could’ve been the thread of the year.
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Re: She’s guilty
[Re: Droyhef]
#13300559
10/03/19 03:01 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,380
barndoor
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 10,380 |
I hate that bigbob didn't answer my question - I'd be willing to take an answer from anyone who agrees with the murder conviction and 10 year sentence - what is the purpose of the punishment?
I'll go ahead and take away the 2 reasons you're probably thinking. It's not for "justice". She didn't intend to kill him and putting her away isn't going to bring him back, and honestly it's not even going to bring peace to the family. My uncle was murdered and I'm very aware of what these situations are like first-hand. The idea that putting someone away somehow brings long-term peace to the victim's family is utter nonsense.
Second, it's not to deter future crime. Nobody is going to intentionally try to do what she did with zero connection to the victim. It could accidentally happen again, but putting her away isn't going to stop that.
So, let's hear it. Our government is incarcerating this woman, guarding her, and feeding her 3 meals a day for a decade. I'd like to hear what kind of ROI the taxpayers are getting on that. Sir, no punishment is going to undo any crime. The facts of this case are that she admitted she intended to kill him in court. Words matter. A series of events led her to the victims front door. She made a poor judgement call by entering what she perceived as her apartment with an open door. Whatever circumstances caused her to end up ay the wrong door dont justify the next steps. As a first responder she would have been trained to assess a cituation as best as possible before responding. An open door too your apartment is not an emergency, and it doesnt warrant imediate entry by one person with weapons drawn. Had she stoped to make an assessment she would have likely noticed that it was the wrong apartment. 2nd, protocol would have been too call for backup, again an open door is not an emergency, immediate entry is not justified. During the time waiting on backup she may have noticed it the wrong apartment. These are 2 blown opportunities to catch the error, both are mistakes. Since she did neither of those things she still should have announced her presence before entering. Miss #3. Three big mistskes/neglegent acts. Now she goes in and shoots a man eating a bowl of ice cream. She makes these three errors in quick succession and then shoots a man. When questioned she says she shot to kill. That is not manslaughter. Manslaughter is when death wasnt the intent. The lack of regard for protocol and poor judgement put her in a situation where she shot man. Mistakes like that have consequences. Something like this cant get a free pass. What if it was her apartment and she walked into an ambush instead of an innocent mans apartment? What if the person who lived in the apartment shot her instead? What if the person living there tried to defend himslef and hit an innocent bystander? What if she hit an innocent bystander instead of the victim or and the victim? Its murder because of the distegard for protocol, poor decisions, and her own words about intent to kill. The facts of this case justify punishment in my mind. I thought manslaughter too until i thought more about it this morning. Nuff said. I already tried to tell him.
Last edited by barndoor; 10/03/19 03:02 PM.
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Re: She’s guilty
[Re: Coach Hark]
#13300596
10/03/19 03:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 72,604
Mark Perry
Super Freak
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Super Freak
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 72,604 |
One thought that came to my mind is if Botham Jean was anything like his younger brother than this was truly an even bigger loss and tragedy.
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Re: She’s guilty
[Re: Mark Perry]
#13300598
10/03/19 03:50 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 39,479
Dan90210 ☮
Jr Deputy Dan
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Jr Deputy Dan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 39,479 |
One thought that came to my mind is if Botham Jean was anything like his younger brother than this was truly an even bigger loss and tragedy. All accounts I have heard is that he was a really classy stand up guy. Freaking DPD before was releasing that there were "drugs" in his apartment before they even released his name. Not classy or stand up move DPD. I am glad that the Chief of police said she heard many concerning things about how this was handled during the trial and Internal was doing a full investigation. Concerning though that she said she heard of these things at trial and she did not know them already. Judge Dan again though, will close this case. Adjourned.
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Re: She’s guilty
[Re: Mark Perry]
#13300599
10/03/19 03:50 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 41,305
CCTX
mapquest
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mapquest
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 41,305 |
One thought that came to my mind is if Botham Jean was anything like his younger brother than this was truly an even bigger loss and tragedy. Agree.
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Re: She’s guilty
[Re: Droyhef]
#13300661
10/03/19 05:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,158
Mike@972
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 2,158 |
I hate that bigbob didn't answer my question - I'd be willing to take an answer from anyone who agrees with the murder conviction and 10 year sentence - what is the purpose of the punishment?
I'll go ahead and take away the 2 reasons you're probably thinking. It's not for "justice". She didn't intend to kill him and putting her away isn't going to bring him back, and honestly it's not even going to bring peace to the family. My uncle was murdered and I'm very aware of what these situations are like first-hand. The idea that putting someone away somehow brings long-term peace to the victim's family is utter nonsense.
Second, it's not to deter future crime. Nobody is going to intentionally try to do what she did with zero connection to the victim. It could accidentally happen again, but putting her away isn't going to stop that.
So, let's hear it. Our government is incarcerating this woman, guarding her, and feeding her 3 meals a day for a decade. I'd like to hear what kind of ROI the taxpayers are getting on that. Sir, no punishment is going to undo any crime. The facts of this case are that she admitted she intended to kill him in court. Words matter. A series of events led her to the victims front door. She made a poor judgement call by entering what she perceived as her apartment with an open door. Whatever circumstances caused her to end up ay the wrong door dont justify the next steps. As a first responder she would have been trained to assess a cituation as best as possible before responding. An open door too your apartment is not an emergency, and it doesnt warrant imediate entry by one person with weapons drawn. Had she stoped to make an assessment she would have likely noticed that it was the wrong apartment. 2nd, protocol would have been too call for backup, again an open door is not an emergency, immediate entry is not justified. During the time waiting on backup she may have noticed it the wrong apartment. These are 2 blown opportunities to catch the error, both are mistakes. Since she did neither of those things she still should have announced her presence before entering. Miss #3. Three big mistskes/neglegent acts. Now she goes in and shoots a man eating a bowl of ice cream. She makes these three errors in quick succession and then shoots a man. When questioned she says she shot to kill.That is not manslaughter. Manslaughter is when death wasnt the intent. The lack of regard for protocol and poor judgement put her in a situation where she shot man. Mistakes like that have consequences. Something like this cant get a free pass. What if it was her apartment and she walked into an ambush instead of an innocent mans apartment? What if the person who lived in the apartment shot her instead? What if the person living there tried to defend himslef and hit an innocent bystander? What if she hit an innocent bystander instead of the victim or and the victim? Its murder because of the distegard for protocol, poor decisions, and her own words about intent to kill. The facts of this case justify punishment in my mind. I thought manslaughter too until i thought more about it this morning. She obviously made many mistakes and is responsible for her actions, no doubt about that. In my opinion, the ones that cannot be excused was that she did not administer meaningful first aid and texted her partner after it happened. I think Criminal Negligence is a more fitting verdict, but that was not available to the jury. There is no need to debate the outcome, but several of the above opinions are not supported by current laws 1) The law says a person can defend life or property. Texas law does not require retreat. 2) I agree that she should have called for back-up, but at the time she was technically off duty and was acting as a person who was defending what she thought to be her property 3) By her account, she did announce her presence when she told him to put up his hands. 4) Of course she shot to kill. That's what happens when you pull the trigger. The larger question was did she enter with the intent to kill This has been beat to death. She screwed up huge. Before the trial, I thought she should be acquitted. Upon hearing the facts, I moved to Criminal Negligence or Manslaughter. Not all Homicides are Murder and I do not believe this is a case of Murder. Whatever the case, it's over until/unless its appeal. We all have opinions, but the state of Texas does not require someone to retreat. I agree that she should have retreated... but that does not mean that she was required to do so IF she was really at her apartment. She got 10 years. 5 Years feels better to me, but I was not in the courtroom or deliberation room.
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Re: She’s guilty
[Re: Coach Hark]
#13300673
10/03/19 05:42 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 39,479
Dan90210 ☮
Jr Deputy Dan
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Jr Deputy Dan
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 39,479 |
ORDER IN THE COURT!!!!
Judge Dan has closed these proceedings and adjourned the Court.
The jumpy, non procedure following, murdering, harlot has been found guilty and will serve 10 years in a Texas state penitentiary for her crimes (eligible for parole in 5, which she will likely be granted).
That is all. Leave the court. Judge Dan says its over. SO I order yall to stop talking. Write her letter if you love her so much I will not heard her being defended any longer as she has been found GUILTY!
That is all
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Re: She’s guilty
[Re: Coach Hark]
#13300674
10/03/19 05:44 PM
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,413
TCK73
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 5,413 |
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Re: She’s guilty
[Re: Coach Hark]
#13300678
10/03/19 05:45 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 12,094
Urban Fisher
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 12,094 |
I may have missed it, but the most important question has not yet been presented...would you?
I would.
Jane says I've never been in love - no She don't know what it is She only knows if someone wants her
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Re: She’s guilty
[Re: Urban Fisher]
#13300680
10/03/19 05:46 PM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 96,105
Bigbob_FTW
Big Sprocket Bob
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Big Sprocket Bob
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 96,105 |
I may have missed it, but the most important question has not yet been presented...would you?
I would. not with yours.
FJB
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Re: She’s guilty
[Re: Dan90210 ☮]
#13300683
10/03/19 05:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 8,966
H.Town_paddler
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 8,966 |
ORDER IN THE COURT!!!!
Judge Dan has closed these proceedings and adjourned the Court.
The jumpy, non procedure following, murdering, harlot has been found guilty and will serve 10 years in a Texas state penitentiary for her crimes (eligible for parole in 5, which she will likely be granted).
That is all. Leave the court. Judge Dan says its over. SO I order yall to stop talking. Write her letter if you love her so much I will not heard her being defended any longer as she has been found GUILTY!
That is all STFU. Your court sucks and your robe is gay.
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Re: She’s guilty
[Re: Mike@972]
#13300790
10/03/19 08:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,644
Droyhef
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,644 |
I hate that bigbob didn't answer my question - I'd be willing to take an answer from anyone who agrees with the murder conviction and 10 year sentence - what is the purpose of the punishment?
I'll go ahead and take away the 2 reasons you're probably thinking. It's not for "justice". She didn't intend to kill him and putting her away isn't going to bring him back, and honestly it's not even going to bring peace to the family. My uncle was murdered and I'm very aware of what these situations are like first-hand. The idea that putting someone away somehow brings long-term peace to the victim's family is utter nonsense.
Second, it's not to deter future crime. Nobody is going to intentionally try to do what she did with zero connection to the victim. It could accidentally happen again, but putting her away isn't going to stop that.
So, let's hear it. Our government is incarcerating this woman, guarding her, and feeding her 3 meals a day for a decade. I'd like to hear what kind of ROI the taxpayers are getting on that. Sir, no punishment is going to undo any crime. The facts of this case are that she admitted she intended to kill him in court. Words matter. A series of events led her to the victims front door. She made a poor judgement call by entering what she perceived as her apartment with an open door. Whatever circumstances caused her to end up ay the wrong door dont justify the next steps. As a first responder she would have been trained to assess a cituation as best as possible before responding. An open door too your apartment is not an emergency, and it doesnt warrant imediate entry by one person with weapons drawn. Had she stoped to make an assessment she would have likely noticed that it was the wrong apartment. 2nd, protocol would have been too call for backup, again an open door is not an emergency, immediate entry is not justified. During the time waiting on backup she may have noticed it the wrong apartment. These are 2 blown opportunities to catch the error, both are mistakes. Since she did neither of those things she still should have announced her presence before entering. Miss #3. Three big mistskes/neglegent acts. Now she goes in and shoots a man eating a bowl of ice cream. She makes these three errors in quick succession and then shoots a man. When questioned she says she shot to kill.That is not manslaughter. Manslaughter is when death wasnt the intent. The lack of regard for protocol and poor judgement put her in a situation where she shot man. Mistakes like that have consequences. Something like this cant get a free pass. What if it was her apartment and she walked into an ambush instead of an innocent mans apartment? What if the person who lived in the apartment shot her instead? What if the person living there tried to defend himslef and hit an innocent bystander? What if she hit an innocent bystander instead of the victim or and the victim? Its murder because of the distegard for protocol, poor decisions, and her own words about intent to kill. The facts of this case justify punishment in my mind. I thought manslaughter too until i thought more about it this morning. She obviously made many mistakes and is responsible for her actions, no doubt about that. In my opinion, the ones that cannot be excused was that she did not administer meaningful first aid and texted her partner after it happened. I think Criminal Negligence is a more fitting verdict, but that was not available to the jury. There is no need to debate the outcome, but several of the above opinions are not supported by current laws 1) The law says a person can defend life or property. Texas law does not require retreat. 2) I agree that she should have called for back-up, but at the time she was technically off duty and was acting as a person who was defending what she thought to be her property 3) By her account, she did announce her presence when she told him to put up his hands. 4) Of course she shot to kill. That's what happens when you pull the trigger. The larger question was did she enter with the intent to kill This has been beat to death. She screwed up huge. Before the trial, I thought she should be acquitted. Upon hearing the facts, I moved to Criminal Negligence or Manslaughter. Not all Homicides are Murder and I do not believe this is a case of Murder. Whatever the case, it's over until/unless its appeal. We all have opinions, but the state of Texas does not require someone to retreat. I agree that she should have retreated... but that does not mean that she was required to do so IF she was really at her apartment. She got 10 years. 5 Years feels better to me, but I was not in the courtroom or deliberation room. 1-Yes sir, the castle doctrine does thankfully give us the protection to defend our own property and person without a duty to retreat. However, it does not extend that protection to an errant assumption. I thought manslaughter as well until i considered it further. She did intend harm based on errant assumptions, so thats why I changed my mind. She further needlessly put others at risk by engaging in a gun fight in an apartment complex. The castle doctrine offers no protection if you in the process of defending your property harm an innocent bystander. 2-She was off duty, but as a police officer she is trained how to handle these situations and she doesnt get a free pass for throwing out that training when she is off the clock. 3- She shouldnt have been inside the appartment anyway, should have spoken from outside. 4- Shooting to kill by definition is murder in this case. Shooting to stop agreassion could be considered differently, but because she used the words intended to kill it removed the ability to consider that. Words matter. I feel bad for both parties really, but too me she cant get a free pass or less than murder. By the definition out of the law given earlier in the thread it is murder too me. I dont think it was premeditated, i think it happened because of a series of events and factors. Exhaustion and flirting are not crimes but they can be distracting. Entering the left open door to your home isnt a crime, neither is showing up the wrong home and errantly entering it. Whether she stopped to think about her reaponse i dont know. I do know the combination of distractions and rash or poor judgement resulted in an innocent mans death and risk to others. I dont see it as neglagent homicide because his death wasnt caused by a direct negligent act, like texting while driving, dui, etc. Had the victim been armed he would have been 100% protected if he shot her dead.
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Re: She’s guilty
[Re: Droyhef]
#13300821
10/03/19 08:21 PM
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 15,447
Sawhorse
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 15,447 |
The facts of this case are that she admitted she intended to kill him in court. Words matter. I just think it’s really unusual to hear someone cry and apologize to the person they “intended to kill” for shooting them...and unusual for them to cry while telling the person they “they intended to kill” about how it was a horrible mistake. All while telling them, “Stay with me”. Don’t think I’ve ever seen that before actually.
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