Tell me this....do you think the same game warden you spoke with today would care if you dumped a few limits of crappie, bass, or striped bass into a hole and didn�t eat it? I ask because the wanton waste law doesn�t differentiate between game/non-game fish. Just says edible, which TPW days include gar, buffalo, etc. I�m just curious your thoughts.

It actually does differentiate according to TPWD. Call them yourself, seriously. When you do, ask the exact question that I did. Tell them you're a private land owner and would like to know if it is lawful to dump your catch of rough fish including buffs, gar, and carp in a hole to be used as fertilizer at a later date. I promise you they will tell you the same thing. Then, if you have an issue with the law, take it up with them.
I urge you guys to do your homework and educate yourselves. That way, if you disagree, you can voice your concerns to those that actually matter and can consider your concerns. I'm a nobody as far as regs go. I don't make the laws, but I do and will follow them. If they change, I will as well.
I thank you and TXmulti for challenging me on this issue. I can honestly say I have learned some things, and instead of thinking I was legal I now know that I am. Hell, I might even start shooting more carp and gar now!! And I owe it all to you guys!

The point that I'm trying to make at this time is that you spoke with a game warden that apparently doesn't have a problem with dumping rough fish on private property. I have spoken to one game warden over the phone, I stood up at the meeting in Huntsville a several years back and asked the same question, and I asked an employee at a parks and wildlife office and they all interpreted the Wanton Waste laws the same way I do. So I'm going to break this down to make sure I'm not being misunderstood. I ask that you please read this thoroughly, and take your time before responding so that we can have a discussion relevant to the topic.

I know these have been posted before, but here is what the TPWD website says about Wanton Waste. You can find both of these quotes under the fishing regulations, and under the bowfishing regulations, which is a subset of and therefore governed by the fishing regulations.

This quote comes from the general fishing regulations:



This quote comes from the bowfishing regulations section:



So based on those two quotes, it seems pretty cut and dry to me. Apparently the Game Warden that you spoke to does not interpret these laws the same way I do. My point is, these quotes say that you can't leave edible fish without the intent to retain them for consumption or bait. It says nothing about rough fish versus game fish. It says nothing about being able to use them for fertilizer. So the point I am trying to make is that if a Game Warden says that you can dump gar, carp, and buffalo into a hole on private property, then he has no grounds to say you can't put game fish in the same hole with them. The Wanton Waste laws apply to both. So how can you interpret them one way for game fish and another for edible rough fish?

Here is my point....You can ask anyone you want, but all that matters is whether or not you are going to get out of a ticket for being in violation. Your game warden doesn't care, mine does. In the end, the only thing that is going to keep you from getting a ticket/fined is having what the law states, in writing, on your side. A Game Warden may choose not to enforce the law, I doubt anyone is going to get out of a ticket based on what the Wanton Waste law says should they receive one. In the end, it's an enforcement issue apparently. A few emails to TPWD Commissioners with pictures and documentation will probably result in laws being clarified one direction or the other, whichever it may be.


Moving on, and back to the original argument, my BIGGEST COMPLAINT with these bowfishing arguments is how much faulty information is spread by bowfishermen and how the discussion keeps getting derailed to cover up the fact that they never show ANY documentation to prove their claims. It's easy to tell the general public that you are doing the lake a "service" by removing carp and buffalo, but nobody ever provides any supporting documentation that is relevant to Texas lakes. It's easy to tell the general public that you can "reduce populations" of carp in large lakes and river systems, but turn around and say your sport has not effect on the trophy rough fish population. You praise TPW Biologist for anything that allows you to keep killing fish, and then call them idiots when they change your Gar regulations. You repeat whatever you have heard, want people to hear, etc. to make the public not view your sport for what it is.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's time for the Bowfishing community either put up or shut up. Either show us relevant, supporting documentation for your claims (which we are still waiting for), or accept that it's a blood sport. Either way, please stop feeding hearsay and irrelevant supporting documentation to people to try to justify it and make your sport look like anything more than it is.

I sent some questions as well as the photo below to TPWD and received an alarmed response asking for more information. Sent a reply and have yet to receive one back. Will post further info if I get it.

Could you elaborate? I've been quite cordial, especially considering my species of choice. Put yourself in my shoes. If you're a Bass guy, Trout guy, Catfish guy, etc. let's pretend it was legal to shoot or spear your target species. The people who do this kill up to hundreds of fish in a single night, and often proceed to waste the fish by discarding them in the trash or even a hole in their backyard. How would you respond?



Here are the results from a recent tournament here in Texas. There were more teams, but just the top 10 alone shot and killed a total of 3,113 fish. This is in no way ethical or sustainable.

I agree that the two statements, when read together, are very confusing and point to the fact rough fish as fertilizer is illegal.
If you read the bowfishing regs read independently, it is clear cut that this is an acceptable practice. I know what I was told on the phone and in the past, and that is that using them as fertilizer is legal. BUT, I googled ask TPWD and have sent an email in regards to this confusion and asked them to clear it up for us. I didn't send it until after 5 pm though, so I expect the response will be tomorrow during normal business hours. I promise to post it whether it is damning or justifies my take and TPWD Haltom City's take on the law.

As far as my view on bowfishing, I think it's evident that it reduces the undesireable rough fish population and that TPWD MIGHT just know about it and support it. I mean, TXMulti makes that point for me with the results from Toledo Bend! And what do you think they did with what I will guarantee was over 6,000 fish shot in that tourney? Ate em all?! Seriously? TPWD knows about this, and supports it!!!!!!!
As far as impacting the trophy rough fish picture, absolutely we do. I don't know anyone who would say bowfishing is beneficial to the "trophy carp population". But we have every right to pursue them just like you guys do. We just choose to keep 'em, so to speak.
As far as the alligator gar regs, I support them if TPWD says they are necessary. I said so in a post TXMulti put up a while ago about standing up and protecting the alligator gar....

I will say, if I did worship carp, I would be pretty upset by all this bowfishing. You're right TXMulti, if it were bass being targeted, there would be an uproar. But as it stands, its the way it is. Move to Europe, they love carp and have different laws.

As promised, I will post TPWDs response when I get it. But the fact that the state shoot is a highly public event, with a huge head count and amount of fish taken has zero issues with any game wardens or TPWD should answer all of your questions.

You're out of ammo fellas, but a truly excellent attempt utilizing all types of misinformation.

Oh, and congratulations to the First Place team at the state shoot!!! 501 fish is an unbelievable haul!!!

Sadly, I was at that state shoot but we only managed 180 something fish..... What a downer. But still a blast!!

Please show us not only their response, but the question you asked as well as the contact.



First, the two are not exclusive. The bowfishing regs are subsets of the general fishing regs, which means they are bound by those laws as well. So no, you cannot read them independently. Second, show me where, even if read independently, it says you can use the fish for fertilizer.



You keep trying to end the discussion by making statements such as this. You need to put up or shut up. Wheres the documentation to back your claims? You have already told us how easy it is to google it, go ahead and show us some links/documents that are relevant to native/naturalized fish in large reservoirs in Texas. If you have this magic piece of information to end this discussion, then use it! You are the one using misinformation, not us. You are choosing to believe what you have been told instead of basing your beliefs on facts in order to justify your sport, just like I stated earlier. If I'm wrong, then prove it.

I think I'll stick around here and change minds one at a time!

LMAO! I love you guys! You're the most special snowflakes EVER!

Bass are targeted every day. A lot of people catch and eat bass which is a good thing within the size and quantity limits established. How many people target carp to eat? Who other than the bow fishermen will kill a carp?

Any update?

I just got a reply from the Assistant Commander of fisheries enforcement at the TPW. He confirmed that dumping rough fish in a hole, whether on private property or not is a violation of the waste of fish laws. If you would like me to PM you his email address, I will be more than happy to do so.

I apologize for the delay, I work nights and we were busy the last few nights.
Below is the question as I stated it to TPWD:

Comment or Question:

My question has to do with bowfishing: If I shoot a boat load of rough fish (gar, carp, and buffs) is it lawful to dump them in a hole on my private property to be used as fertilizer? I am aware of the new regs on alligator gar and these would not be included.