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Learned something new about community property in Texas
#12791334
06/14/18 03:25 AM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,571
Uncle Zeek
OP
aka "Dad"
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OP
aka "Dad"
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,571 |
So most everyone here probably knows the basics about community property: when you get married, everything you own becomes her stuff. Ok, seriously, the rule is that there's a rebuttable presumption that all marital property is community property. You can show that property is NOT community property with clear & convincing evidence that it is separate property. Separate property is property that you a) owned before marriage, b) inherited during the marriage, or c) was given to you as a gift during the marriage. In general, most people tend to let their separate property get commingled with community property to the point where you can no longer prove that it is your separate property. One way to prevent property from becoming community property is to have a written agreement before the marriage that certain property (like income from a rental house) will remain separate property after getting married. So here's the new thing I didn't know about: a married couple can sign a contract agreeing to "partition" certain community property into separate property. Handy estate planning tool for folks on a 2nd (or later) marriage and/or who have children from a previous relationship. This is practical for long-term planning, because everyone dies eventually ... and if you have kids from a previous marriage, you might want to ensure that certain property goes to them no matter what. (Yeah, I know, boring stuff, but some of this will be on the bar exam!)
"Decency is not news; it is buried in the obituaries --but it is a force stronger than crime" ~ Robert A. Heinlein Artim Law Firm, PLLC Estate planning & tax attorney 2250 Morriss Road, Suite 205, Flower Mound, Texas 75028 972-746-0758 mobile zac@artimlegal.com
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Re: Learned something new about community property in Texas
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12791345
06/14/18 03:29 AM
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Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 15,264
Sawhorse
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 15,264 |
Settlement money from personal injury lawsuits (not including compensation for lost wages) is considered separate too.
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Re: Learned something new about community property in Texas
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12791408
06/14/18 04:56 AM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 41,012
CCTX
mapquest
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mapquest
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 41,012 |
I dont understand why anyone would want to get married more than once
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Re: Learned something new about community property in Texas
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12791489
06/14/18 11:51 AM
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,788
Roller22
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,788 |
Zeek you helped me a month or so ago with a property tax question and protesting. Went to the CAD in Denton yesterday and came away better than expected. Dropped my home property tax from $211K to $188K by simply looking at comps. Huge because I was only looking for $191K. Rental went from $140K to $130K.
Thanks again for your help, sorry this is off topic of your original post which was informative.
I Thes. 5:16-18
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Re: Learned something new about community property in Texas
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12791565
06/14/18 01:14 PM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,659
PondFish
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 5,659 |
Wife and I covered all of that in the Pre-Nup.
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Re: Learned something new about community property in Texas
[Re: Roller22]
#12791646
06/14/18 02:07 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,571
Uncle Zeek
OP
aka "Dad"
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OP
aka "Dad"
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,571 |
Zeek you helped me a month or so ago with a property tax question and protesting. Went to the CAD in Denton yesterday and came away better than expected. Dropped my home property tax from $211K to $188K by simply looking at comps. Huge because I was only looking for $191K. Rental went from $140K to $130K.
Thanks again for your help, sorry this is off topic of your original post which was informative. Oh, I don't mind pointing people to information on how to protest property taxes, or similar things. In a perfect world, everyone would protest their property taxes every year, everyone would take all possible deductions on their income taxes and MAIL the paper returns in, everyone would claim their fuel tax refund for boat fuel use, etc, etc.
"Decency is not news; it is buried in the obituaries --but it is a force stronger than crime" ~ Robert A. Heinlein Artim Law Firm, PLLC Estate planning & tax attorney 2250 Morriss Road, Suite 205, Flower Mound, Texas 75028 972-746-0758 mobile zac@artimlegal.com
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Re: Learned something new about community property in Texas
[Re: CCTX]
#12791688
06/14/18 02:26 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,347
GTrigg
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 4,347 |
I dont understand why anyone would want to get married more than once Geeze, where were you when I got married for the fourth time? Although after two divorces, half of nothing is nothing so you don't really loose much...
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Re: Learned something new about community property in Texas
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12792127
06/14/18 07:58 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 10,734
Fishin' Nut
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 10,734 |
I think this is called a "QTIP". My MIL is on marriage #3. He is a very wealthy man. If he dies first, she gets a lump sum settlement and the remainder of his estate goes back to his two sons. If either of them contest the lump sum settlement and lose, they forfeit their portion of their inheritance and it reverts back to the MIL. The lump sum is not small change, so he had that put in there because his two sons would/could litigate my MIL into bankruptcy, if they chose to do so.
He is truly a sick individual.
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Re: Learned something new about community property in Texas
[Re: GTrigg]
#12792146
06/14/18 08:14 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 41,012
CCTX
mapquest
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mapquest
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 41,012 |
I dont understand why anyone would want to get married more than once Geeze, where were you when I got married for the fourth time? Although after two divorces, half of nothing is nothing so you don't really loose much... Bless you. Sounds like your sense of humor has survived intact
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Re: Learned something new about community property in Texas
[Re: Fishin' Nut]
#12792276
06/14/18 10:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,571
Uncle Zeek
OP
aka "Dad"
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OP
aka "Dad"
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,571 |
I think this is called a "QTIP". My MIL is on marriage #3. He is a very wealthy man. If he dies first, she gets a lump sum settlement and the remainder of his estate goes back to his two sons. If either of them contest the lump sum settlement and lose, they forfeit their portion of their inheritance and it reverts back to the MIL. The lump sum is not small change, so he had that put in there because his two sons would/could litigate my MIL into bankruptcy, if they chose to do so. That sounds like a will provision rather than a property partition.
"Decency is not news; it is buried in the obituaries --but it is a force stronger than crime" ~ Robert A. Heinlein Artim Law Firm, PLLC Estate planning & tax attorney 2250 Morriss Road, Suite 205, Flower Mound, Texas 75028 972-746-0758 mobile zac@artimlegal.com
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Re: Learned something new about community property in Texas
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12792304
06/14/18 10:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,437
BThomas
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,437 |
So most everyone here probably knows the basics about community property: when you get married, everything you own becomes her stuff. Ok, seriously, the rule is that there's a rebuttable presumption that all marital property is community property. You can show that property is NOT community property with clear & convincing evidence that it is separate property. Separate property is property that you a) owned before marriage, b) inherited during the marriage, or c) was given to you as a gift during the marriage. In general, most people tend to let their separate property get commingled with community property to the point where you can no longer prove that it is your separate property. One way to prevent property from becoming community property is to have a written agreement before the marriage that certain property (like income from a rental house) will remain separate property after getting married. So here's the new thing I didn't know about: a married couple can sign a contract agreeing to "partition" certain community property into separate property. Handy estate planning tool for folks on a 2nd (or later) marriage and/or who have children from a previous relationship. This is practical for long-term planning, because everyone dies eventually ... and if you have kids from a previous marriage, you might want to ensure that certain property goes to them no matter what. (Yeah, I know, boring stuff, but some of this will be on the bar exam!) Sounds like a prenuptial agreement.
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Re: Learned something new about community property in Texas
[Re: BThomas]
#12792322
06/14/18 10:52 PM
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,571
Uncle Zeek
OP
aka "Dad"
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OP
aka "Dad"
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 27,571 |
Sounds like a prenuptial agreement. Yeah, it's almost exactly like a prenup. The difference is that a prenup is an agreement made BEFORE marriage, that only becomes effective UPON marriage. A partition is an agreement made DURING the marriage, that is effective immediately.
"Decency is not news; it is buried in the obituaries --but it is a force stronger than crime" ~ Robert A. Heinlein Artim Law Firm, PLLC Estate planning & tax attorney 2250 Morriss Road, Suite 205, Flower Mound, Texas 75028 972-746-0758 mobile zac@artimlegal.com
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Re: Learned something new about community property in Texas
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12792339
06/14/18 11:14 PM
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Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 12,198
tmd11111
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 12,198 |
All I know is when i got divorced almost 5 years ago it cost me a little over $300k. Community property laws bite the big one.
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Re: Learned something new about community property in Texas
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12792353
06/14/18 11:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,437
BThomas
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,437 |
Sounds like a prenuptial agreement. Yeah, it's almost exactly like a prenup. The difference is that a prenup is an agreement made BEFORE marriage, that only becomes effective UPON marriage. A partition is an agreement made DURING the marriage, that is effective immediately. A partition should be called a postnuptial. lol just kidding.
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Re: Learned something new about community property in Texas
[Re: Uncle Zeek]
#12792355
06/14/18 11:37 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,437
BThomas
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,437 |
At my age I am not getting a divorce.. She would get everything and I would never get to retire. She would get half of my pension, 401K, and the house. She would not get the boat though.
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