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Jan 23rd, 2013
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TPWD Ray Hubbard Survey Report. #12715379 04/13/18 07:30 PM
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Fishboy Frank Offline OP
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Have been looking for this report for awhile now. This report confirms what many of us already knew. Read for yourself the results. Our RHSA group is mentioned several times. There is a wealth of information in here. Take the time to read up. Take a look especially at the White Bass and Hybrid numbers. Not good.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/publications/pwdpubs/media/lake_survey/pwd_rp_t3200_1367_2016.pdf

Here is the paragraph with the results for Whites and Hybrids:

Temperate basses: The 2017 total gill netting catch rate of White Bass was 1.9/nn which was well
below previous sample in 2015 (9.9/nn) and below the reservoir average of 7.3/nn (Figure 6; Appendix
C). The gill netting catch rate of Hybrid Striped Bass was only 1.7 /nn in 2017 which was lower than the
previous sample in 2015 (3.4/nn) and below the reservoir average of 2.5/nn (Figure 7; Appendix C). In
Ray Hubbard, Hybrid Striped Bass reach 18 inches between age 2 and 3 (Figure 8).

Last edited by Fishboy Frank; 04/13/18 08:07 PM.
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Re: TPWD Ray Hubbard Survey Report. [Re: Fishboy Frank] #12715529 04/13/18 09:03 PM
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Notaguide Offline
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Its a slaughterhouse in the spring

Re: TPWD Ray Hubbard Survey Report. [Re: Notaguide] #12715532 04/13/18 09:05 PM
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Fishboy Frank Offline OP
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I just wrote TPWD a letter with several suggestions. Those of us that have a long history on the lake knew what was happening. Now it's up to TPWD to do something. Anything.

Re: TPWD Ray Hubbard Survey Report. [Re: Fishboy Frank] #12715535 04/13/18 09:06 PM
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Notaguide Offline
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Im not even sure the TPWD exits anymore

Re: TPWD Ray Hubbard Survey Report. [Re: Fishboy Frank] #12715599 04/13/18 09:55 PM
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Fishboy Frank Offline OP
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They are fewer in numbers thats for sure. We meet with them from time to time regarding RHSA stocking hybrids. And the guides meet with them also. When they write back want to request a meeting.

Re: TPWD Ray Hubbard Survey Report. [Re: Fishboy Frank] #12715669 04/13/18 10:47 PM
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Yaffe (Jeff) Offline
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Need to close the creeks down for a few yrs..they will come back



Re: TPWD Ray Hubbard Survey Report. [Re: Fishboy Frank] #12715695 04/13/18 11:01 PM
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SteveStrasemeier Offline
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Yaffe I couldn't agree more. I used to fish Rowlette creek during the spawn but can no longer do that because of the overwhelming amount of fish taken illegally. Can't shut down the creeks but you can support/encourage the game wardens to monitor the situation. They could camp put at Firewheel and hand out citations every day all day long.

Re: TPWD Ray Hubbard Survey Report. [Re: Fishboy Frank] #12715738 04/13/18 11:30 PM
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Dipson Offline
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I fish both the main lake and rowlett creek, the drought years were great for fishing. I think thats where you get that huge difference in gill survey captures, the fish had alot less water to roam in the drought years compared to now. I know 2015 the flooding happened around late spring in may or so, if they did the gill net survey in early spring the lake levels would still have been 10 feet low.

Now that Ray Hubbard has been at full pool for a number or years and multiple months of spillway run off, I have no doubt there were alot of fish lost down river, but its my opinion that fisherman have a VERY little impact on the actual numbers of hybrids/sandbass left in the lake.

If you compare Ray Hubbard to lakes like Tawakoni, we have almost 0 guide presence, you have hundreds of sandbass and hybrid stripers taken out of Tawakoni EVERY DAY, compare that to Ray Hubbard, I use to fish it 3-5 times a week on the main lake and would see maybe 1 or 2 fishing boats for hybrid/white bass MAX. Its majority largemouth fisherman.

Spring time during the creek run, I am at Rowlett Creek 3-5 times a week in the morning. While no doubt there is some illegal over harvesting, majority of fisherman police each other fairly well, while some of you think the sandbass get slaughtered when they run up the creek, its actually very hard to pull a limit of sandbass except on a few days and you really have to know what you are doing. I would say 75% of the people fishing the creek don't really know what they are doing and come out of their fishing session with 1-5 fish.

Sandbass spawn everywhere, hundreds of thousands of eggs, shad have been abundant, fish are very healthy, closing down the creeks would do NOTHING for sandbass. Ray Hubbard is a huge lake, and 99% of the regulars that fish the lake only fish the open lake, With it at full pool i'm sure there are plenty of places the white bass/ hybrids are hiding that never see a boat in a month.

Re: TPWD Ray Hubbard Survey Report. [Re: Fishboy Frank] #12715797 04/14/18 12:08 AM
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Fishboy Frank Offline OP
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Hi Dipson. Some valid points. But the numbers don't lie. Also look at the stocking numbers for Hubbard versus Tawakoni. I think you will see a huge disparity. The days of acres of fish schooling on Hubbard are long gone. We all have various thoughts on the subject. But when you have the numbers returned from TPWD like we are seeing. We have a problem. When prolific reproduction fish like white bass go from 9.9 to 1.9 in two years. Something is seriously wrong. I've fished the lake since '80. The last few years have been some of the slowest I've seen. Even the guides will tell you the same. And with many of us fishing year round now. And many of us sharing information. We have a pretty good cross section of information flowing. I have charts going way back. Those charts don't lie either. Whether it's fishing pressure, the floods. drought. We are in a downturn. And most of us return the hybrids we do catch. And sure we all have spurts of great days.

But it's more average days now. I'm sure this isn't the first time TPWD has seen a lake go through a down turn like this. But we have more people moving to the area. And there are a lot of people fishing the lake still. I've exchanged e-mails with some of the biologists. It took awhile to get the survey results back. Truth be told I think they did two surveys. Probably not believing the numbers. One day last year they asked J.V. and his clients to keep everything they caught that day. Talked to J.V. and my neighbor Mark and I kept and gave ours to J.V. He turned all those over to TPWD on shore. RHSA took a year off of stocking. We will have to pick back up. Somehow through better personal and State management we can bring the numbers back up. Shad aren't the problem that's for sure. Any way I'll post when they respond to my letter. Stay tuned. See you at the dock.

Last edited by Fishboy Frank; 04/14/18 12:11 AM.
Re: TPWD Ray Hubbard Survey Report. [Re: Fishboy Frank] #12716053 04/14/18 02:21 AM
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MeatHauler Offline
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So for the hybrids, 1.7 isn't that much lower than the average. It's not great, but you could come up with some reasonable explanations like open dam gates. For the whites though, that's a huge disparity. I don't think you can attribute numbers like that to angling, but rather something like poor spawning conditions or low survival rates of fry. It just seems like way more fish than humans could remove with rods and reels.

Last edited by MeatHauler; 04/14/18 02:22 AM.
Re: TPWD Ray Hubbard Survey Report. [Re: Fishboy Frank] #12716145 04/14/18 03:16 AM
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SteveStrasemeier Offline
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I am not talking about angling, I am talking about cast netters, mostly at night.

Re: TPWD Ray Hubbard Survey Report. [Re: Fishboy Frank] #12716175 04/14/18 03:29 AM
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Capt. Michael Littlejohn Offline
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Great info guys. Ive always believed open water gates mixed with smaller lakes have a big impact on fish loss.

Tawakoni doesnt have gates.


Michael Littlejohn's Full-Time Lake Tawakoni Guide Service
www.tawakoniguideservice.com
Click HERE for Recent CATCH Photos!

Re: TPWD Ray Hubbard Survey Report. [Re: Fishboy Frank] #12716183 04/14/18 03:47 AM
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Handing out citations might help a little?! Now some jail time thats whats needed in my opinion.. for perpetrators with 2 or more offenses in a certain amount of time?


Teamgetsome$$$
Re: TPWD Ray Hubbard Survey Report. [Re: SteveStrasemeier] #12716337 04/14/18 01:28 PM
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Dipson Offline
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This is a common complaint I hear everytime Rowlett creek comes up. When was the last time you have been to Rowlett creek? I actually cast net the creek for shad before dawn, 5 am, Do you know how inefficient it is to cast net Rowlett creek for sandies? You must be imagining that people are just pulling out limits of fish with every cast net throw. This is simply false, I throw a 7' cast net at least 20-30 times to get bait, I might catch 5 sandies total. In that same amount of time I could easily catch 5 sandies with lures and jigs or minnows. Most people will take the easiest route for fish, cast netting for sandies in rowlett creek is no where near the easiest way to catch them.

Rowlett creek changes every year, and especially this year there are very few spots to efficiently throw a cast net, the firewheel area alot of the bank access has been reduced dramatically, you need waders and a rope to even get to most of the productive holes.

Re: TPWD Ray Hubbard Survey Report. [Re: Fishboy Frank] #12716406 04/14/18 02:22 PM
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Agreed, Dipson.

Look,there are millions of white bass in the lake. Just how many fish do you think have to come out of the creek to account for the numbers reported by TPWD? It's not possible.

The answer has to be a combination of things, but human predation has to be near the bottom.

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