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Re: Tournament System Idea
[Re: Brent S]
#11742889
07/26/16 03:50 PM
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Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,714
Bass Buster1
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,714 |
Sounds like adult softball leagues which are more fun when you compete against teams with similar ability.
See you on the lake and have a great day!
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Re: Tournament System Idea
[Re: Brent S]
#11742935
07/26/16 04:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 5,193
Fishinfellow
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
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that's what clubs are for....I think you're trying to address a problem that's already been solved...
Thats my money fish Kris Winhold
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Re: Tournament System Idea
[Re: Brent S]
#11743040
07/26/16 05:04 PM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,581
GROD
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,581 |
I can see what your saying Kris and to an extent I agree, but not all anglers want to join a club and show up to monthly meetings... Some just want to pay their entry fee and hit the ramp. I could see a portion of anglers, especially ones new to the sport, who are competitive in nature and may not yet have the abilities/knowledge or time on the water as some do.
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Re: Tournament System Idea
[Re: Brent S]
#11743041
07/26/16 05:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 72,533
Mark Perry
Super Freak
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Super Freak
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There ain't a lot of money in it now for local TDs. Throw in that more paperwork and keeping track of points and who has won what etc really might make it hard to get good directors to do it. Throw in the added record keeping at weigh in too and its gonna be a fair amount of extra work for a TD. The other thing I see is imagine you have 100 boats on the water in 3-4 divisions and you are cutting way down on payouts. Also imagine as a beginner level guy you get on a good school of fish and weigh in more than it took to win the other divisions. Does that mean you are better than the experienced guys and need to jump up or did you just have a great day at the right time.
I kinda agree with what Kris said above. It seems like the various levels are in place already.
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Re: Tournament System Idea
[Re: Brent S]
#11743068
07/26/16 05:27 PM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,973
Txduckhunter
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
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Isn't that Idea already in place? 1. Club Level fishing usually 40 to 60 per entry with a membership 2. Trail Level fishing usually 150 up to 350 per entry 3. Semi Pro entry fees are roughly 500 to 1k 4. Pro entry fees are between 3k and 5k per entry.
Just what I thought about when I read your post.
Jody Similar, yes. I don't think there's a system in place to encourage anglers to compete in their level without dropping down and making essentially "easy money". When that occurs, like I said, it discourages anglers from competing. This format also keeps all the levels in one tournament series and makes for an easy transition into higher divisions. Thanks for the feedback. I've never done anything where I didn't want to compete against the best. May donate some money for a while but that's part of the process. Imo, if that's not how you think then your just going for a participation ribbon. (And I'll be happy to take your donation)
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Re: Tournament System Idea
[Re: Txduckhunter]
#11743108
07/26/16 05:54 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,703
Brent S
OP
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OP
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Isn't that Idea already in place? 1. Club Level fishing usually 40 to 60 per entry with a membership 2. Trail Level fishing usually 150 up to 350 per entry 3. Semi Pro entry fees are roughly 500 to 1k 4. Pro entry fees are between 3k and 5k per entry.
Just what I thought about when I read your post.
Jody Similar, yes. I don't think there's a system in place to encourage anglers to compete in their level without dropping down and making essentially "easy money". When that occurs, like I said, it discourages anglers from competing. This format also keeps all the levels in one tournament series and makes for an easy transition into higher divisions. Thanks for the feedback. I've never done anything where I didn't want to compete against the best. May donate some money for a while but that's part of the process. Imo, if that's not how you think then your just going for a participation ribbon. (And I'll be happy to take your donation) How long is somebody supposed to donate before they get burned out? You mentioned that you never do anything where you don't want to compete against the best. So you're saying that if you were to join a local basketball league or softball league, that you wouldn't mind competing against NBA or MLB players? My idea is to promote growth through competition based off similar skill levels. Similar skill levels are not based off age, but experience. Just like other sports. The level of technology that is avaliable to us should be used to its greatest potential. As the sport advances, the way things are organized should as well.
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Re: Tournament System Idea
[Re: Brent S]
#11743163
07/26/16 06:30 PM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 38,822
KingwoodCat
TFF Guru
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I have put some thought into ways to promote the sport of tournament fishing. There are many anglers who tournament fish, or would like to tournament fish, and be able to compete at a certain level. The sport is growing with new and young anglers that would like to compete, but may get discouraged due to their skill level or experience. Yes, you can say that people need to spend more time on the water, but for some, that is not viable. My idea is to create a tournament series with divisions based off skill.
Almost every sport has varying levels of competition through which athletes are able to compete in as they practice improving their skills. Why not translate something like this to bass fishing?
Format:
- 10-12 tournaments in a season - Two or three divisions - Individual or team
(For two division system)
Division 2 (Lower Division):
- $40 to $60 entry
Division 1 (Higher Division):
- $120 to $180 entry
Anyone can fish whichever division they choose, but once you place in a division, you are to continue in that division for the remainder of the year. If you fish in division 2 and place three or more times that season, you are to fish the following year in the next highest division. If you do not place in the higher division that year, then you may drop down a division.
This format will promote growth in the sport and level competition. Anglers will be able to identify with a division based off skill. They will also be able to compete at a level while improving their abilities.
What does everybody think of this idea?
Thanks
Its been tried before. Tbe challenge to setting up a tournament series is to have enough sponsors that you do not have to rely on entry fees for payback. Once upon a time there was a tournament association in the mid west that had a "Pro" side, and an "Amateur" side. The difference was entry fees and prize money/prizes. It worked for awhile, but eventually went belly up back when it's major competitor was the Red Man Trail. Plus it picked some lousy lakes to fish.
"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him had better take a look at the American Indian".
Henry Ford
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Re: Tournament System Idea
[Re: Brent S]
#11743200
07/26/16 06:49 PM
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,973
Txduckhunter
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,973 |
How long is somebody supposed to donate before they get burned out?
You mentioned that you never do anything where you don't want to compete against the best. So you're saying that if you were to join a local basketball league or softball league, that you wouldn't mind competing against NBA or MLB players?
My idea is to promote growth through competition based off similar skill levels. Similar skill levels are not based off age, but experience. Just like other sports.
The level of technology that is avaliable to us should be used to its greatest potential. As the sport advances, the way things are organized should as well.
[/quote]
I don't think that you have a bad idea, I think you'll have heck trying to get it "fair".
I don't play other sports so it would silly to think I could compete against pros. I am also wise enough to know I can't hang with pros on the fishing circuit either. There is a system for climbing the ladder (kind of) in place, as has been pointed out. As to how long does a guy donate? Depends on his level of commitment and finances I would assume. If you sit down and do some looking around, most guys donate despite being cool Internet heroes. I know that's how I feel a lot of times and I luckily manage to cash a few checks every year. Reality is that some guys might want to be tournament winners and they just don't have it.(for whatever reason) It takes time to be competitive at any level.
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Re: Tournament System Idea
[Re: Brent S]
#11743212
07/26/16 06:55 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,437
BThomas
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
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Posts: 10,437 |
I think your turnout will be very low. Just last weekend Budlite on Ray Hubbard only had 13 boats and Bass-Bucks only had 33 boats on Amistad. In the past these would have drawn more. The tournament fishing in the DFW is over saturated.
If Anglers want to try their hand at tournament fishing try one of the Big Bass tournaments like Bass Pro Big Bass it is for amateur fishermen. Yes, a totally different style of fishing. They could also donate their time and boat to fish the Fishing for Freedom tournament on Belton that Cliff Brown put's on it's free to enter and for a great cause.
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Re: Tournament System Idea
[Re: Brent S]
#11743231
07/26/16 07:07 PM
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 6,703
Brent S
OP
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OP
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I understand txduckhunter. The challenge would be creating a fair system and draw the numbers.
BThomas- I agree. There are a lot of tournament trails and not enough Fishing them. My curiosity is whether or not this is due to not having a legitimate divisional competition format. If you take a random sample of 100 anglers who tournament fish, you will find a wide degree of skill levels. Why not shrink the gap with a series that accommodates them by division? Just a thought.
Thanks for the input folks.
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Re: Tournament System Idea
[Re: Brent S]
#11743296
07/26/16 07:45 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 290
PowPowOl'Son
Angler
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Angler
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 290 |
Playing devils advocate here....What's to prevent a better angler from purposefully competing in the lower classes to take home more cash? That is the biggest issue to tackle. People will want to fish against those less skilled because it's easy money. I'm trying to come up with a way to keep that from happening. Maybe the first year, since there will be no record on anglers performance, have placement tournaments. These will place anglers in their respective division to get the series started. Since there wouldn't be much "easy money" in that lower division because the fees are low, I don't think you'd have a big problem with the big boys entering down. Why would they waste a good stringer of fish to win $300 when they could win $1500?
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Re: Tournament System Idea
[Re: Brent S]
#11743330
07/26/16 07:58 PM
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,000
Neal G
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,000 |
Beginners in tournament fishing have several options. Some of which are to team up with an experienced angler in a team format circuit, join a bass club as a non-boater or boater, or enter as a Co-angler in the BFLs, Costa or Ram Open tournaments. After a couple of years of doing that and if you are any good then move up to the tougher team circuits or to the front of the boat in boater/co-angler tournaments.
What is missing in Texas is a $500 entry fee individual / no co-angler 2-day competition circuit with strong anti-cheating prevention in place with tournament off-limits to protect the working man and the circuit travels the state with rules/schedules/payouts to prevent blatant jack potting.
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Re: Tournament System Idea
[Re: Brent S]
#11743454
07/26/16 09:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 27,659
Fish Killer
Big Sexy
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Big Sexy
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 27,659 |
As long as there is a "I suck at fishing" level, I may have enough ability to be able to enter.
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Re: Tournament System Idea
[Re: Rhino68W]
#11743474
07/26/16 09:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,437
BThomas
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
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Posts: 10,437 |
Playing devils advocate here....What's to prevent a better angler from purposefully competing in the lower classes to take home more cash? That would be like stealing candy from a child. If it made the better angler feel better about himself. Still not a 100% guaranteed win or in the money. The lower level would have to have a participation rate of double or triple to make it worth while. Even then the more experienced angler is not guaranteed a win. They all are fishing against the fish. I mean look at the BASS Opens and see some of the BASS Pros that do not make it into the money and your local on that lake take the Pro's money. It's the angler against the fish and the knowledge of the lake on that day and the angler knowing the specific patterns on that lake.
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Re: Tournament System Idea
[Re: Fish Killer]
#11743477
07/26/16 09:24 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,437
BThomas
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,437 |
As long as there is a "I suck at fishing" level, I may have enough ability to be able to enter. That would be the lower level.
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