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Re: More dead sal
[Re: Ban-D]
#10705813
03/18/15 09:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 50,396
fouzman
Methuselah
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Methuselah
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 50,396 |
Marc Mitchell, thanks for articulating your feelings. Managing bass and big deer is what has led me to my conclusion not to donate, too.
But I'll agree to disagree with you on the state of our fisheries and the great work TPWD does to maintain/improve them.
My final thought is this. You and all the Lake Fork guides and your clients could do a world of good for that lake if y'all simply kept a limit of unders when you're catching them. Every time out for one year.
Coincidence is His way of remaining anonymous.
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Re: More dead sal
[Re: Ban-D]
#10705822
03/18/15 09:50 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 50,396
fouzman
Methuselah
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Methuselah
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 50,396 |
And I realize a ton of folks like to fish tournaments and target unders on Fork. So many will be quick to condem me. Can't have it both ways, though. You can either have a world-class trophy fishery or a ton of big unders and solid fish up to 13 lbs.
Coincidence is His way of remaining anonymous.
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Re: More dead sal
[Re: Ban-D]
#10705831
03/18/15 09:52 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,067
HatCamBass
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,067 |
TPWD just released a statement saying that 3 of the 5 SALS turned in this year had broken jaws. Two of those died, the third was returned to Rayburn.
I know detractors might call this blame-deflection on TPWD's part, but it clearly seems that those fish weren't handled properly when initially caught. I guarantee you that TPWD is already discussing solutions to make sure this doesn't keep happening.
Last edited by HatCamBass; 03/18/15 09:54 PM.
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Re: More dead sal
[Re: buton]
#10705837
03/18/15 09:54 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 17,765
Chris B
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 17,765 |
They DNA test all of the fish correct? Has the program produced a SAL that has been turned in yet?
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Re: More dead sal
[Re: fouzman]
#10705840
03/18/15 09:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,070
kellisag
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,070 |
Marc Mitchell, thanks for articulating your feelings. Managing bass and big deer is what has led me to my conclusion not to donate, too.
But I'll agree to disagree with you on the state of our fisheries and the great work TPWD does to maintain/improve them.
My final thought is this. You and all the Lake Fork guides and your clients could do a world of good for that lake if y'all simply kept a limit of unders when you're catching them. Every time out for one year.
I agree with this 100%
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Re: More dead sal
[Re: Mulholland]
#10705857
03/18/15 10:01 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 17,765
Chris B
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 17,765 |
So the answer is no. It has not produced a 13 pound bass in all these years.
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Re: More dead sal
[Re: Ban-D]
#10705875
03/18/15 10:08 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 806
JimmyP
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 806 |
I hear the argument from SAL program detractors that it is removing the genetics from the lake. I have to disagree. A fish that big is 10 to 12 years old, is that something we can all agree on? If so, then those fish have already spawned in that lake for 6 to 9 years at least. genetics don't change so they are still in the lake. another thing is how many of the eggs spawned from a fish in the wild actually get fertilized with the other fish and currents moving them around. And what is the guarantee that the male is all Florida? I imagine in the labratory setting virtually all can be fertilized with pure florida strain males. To be returned to lakes state wide. I remember as a young man, I'm 62 now, when a 10 lb. fish was a monster and very rarely caught. I for one believe TPWD is doing a wonderful job in making bass fishing better for all in the state. I am now and will always be Pro TPWD.
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Re: More dead sal
[Re: Ban-D]
#10705886
03/18/15 10:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,955
SpiderJig
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,955 |
I just want to catch one of these big girls. I'll worry about the handling later
PB- 10lb 5oz Purtis Creek 7-25-15
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Re: More dead sal
[Re: Ban-D]
#10705894
03/18/15 10:13 PM
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Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 111
4976sc
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 111 |
How about if you don't like the program, just don't turn the fish in. Take your picture and either release it, or take it home with you and fry it, or stick it in your pond. It's that simple
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Re: More dead sal
[Re: Chris B]
#10705901
03/18/15 10:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 806
JimmyP
Pro Angler
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Pro Angler
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 806 |
The lake record for Naconiche was a descendant from a Falcon lake SAL. weighed in at 12.54 so not quite a SAL. So the answer is no. It has not produced a 13 pound bass in all these years.
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Re: More dead sal
[Re: Mark Jones]
#10705952
03/18/15 10:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,448
BThomas
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,448 |
I used to be a big supporter of the SAL program. I'm quickly loosing faith. I wonder what everyone's opinion would be if these were their children instead of fish that were being cared for? Just food for thought. This is a ridiculous statement. I hope you're joking. The program works on so many levels that it far exceeds the loss of those fish. Is it a shame, yes but it happens and as so many others have mentioned there are many other factors taking a much larger toll on our resource. 
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Re: More dead sal
[Re: fouzman]
#10705955
03/18/15 10:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,448
BThomas
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,448 |
I would like to see a poll done for who is for the SAL and those against. I think a lot of you guys would be surprised at the numbers against it. I would be number one on the list against it. No way to prove it has helped cause if you look at the numbers before the program or as it started we have gone backwards IMO. Our state record wont even make east or west coast top 25 list and they do not mess with the spawing process. Marc, is your opinion of us going backward based solely on what you've seen at Lake Fork? I could understand if that was your basis but, otherwise, I disagree. FWIW, I think the SAL program is a cool idea, financed primarily with private dollars, that has served it's purpose and continues to do so. However I, like you, would never donate a fish to the program as I believe they are better left in their natural environment. 
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Re: More dead sal
[Re: Ban-D]
#10705962
03/18/15 10:38 PM
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,797
Douglas J
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 21,797 |
Why don't they just grow their breeding stock in captivity and then breed and spawn them?
They could then release the fingerlings and some adults into our lakes.
This takes all the risk out of bad handling and gives us the best available genetics. Isn't this what giant deer breeders basically do??
![[Linked Image]](https://texasfishingforum.com/forums/pics/userpics/2024/11/full-72311-248284-f6b1190b_bbab_49d4_a1b2_6e9a1ce426f7.jpeg) #MFGA
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Re: More dead sal
[Re: Ban-D]
#10705999
03/18/15 10:54 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 81
Kenny MaC
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 81 |
Bill Rutledge, then the director of fish hatcheries for the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department.
For several years, Rutledge had been trying to solve a vexing problem: Whenever an angler landed a really big bass, a vital specimen was being removed from the genetic pool. The State of Texas was spending a good deal of time and money trying to breed larger and larger bass and thereby improve its reputation as a fishermans paradise. To achieve these goals, Rutledge needed more of the big fish left in the water to spawn. But how could he convince anglers to throw back the giant fish they had just caught? Hed have to revise the philosophy of bass fishing, which, at that point, was oriented more to the frying pan than the scale.
Rutledge was not the first to dream of building a bigger bass. A hundred years ago, only one type of largemouth bass resided in Texas waters. Known to most as northern bassand to some as Micropterus salmoides salmoidesit topped out around five pounds, which seemed plenty big to most anglers, until the seventies, when Bob Kemp came along. Kemp, then the regional director of fisheries for the TPWD, knew that Floridas native bass reached ten pounds or more. Bass that size were extremely rare in Texas; the state record of 13.5 pounds had stood unchallenged since 1943. Kemp decided to take matters into his own hands. In 1971 he personally paid to have two insulated boxes of Florida fingerlings in oxygenated bags flown in as brood fish. The shipment totaled several hundred tiny fish. In the following twelve years, the state record was broken six times.
Thank you TPWD!
-K.MaC
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