Yeah.......but........
meat's meat...and a man's gotta eat.

Carp and Buffs are all Bush's fault! Just kidding, Alan.

Hahahaha! It must've been older Bush....he's been around since the 1800's...right?

Duckcreek,

I actually do wish there were more people that would eat carp and buff....unfortunately, I'm not one of them, lol. I'm too scared of chomping into a bunch of bones....I sure haven't ever pressure cooked anything, and I'm a very picky eater, so adding certain flavors to anything will count me out.

My view on harvesting carp and buff are similar to those of catfishermen.....anything under a medium size fish is fine to keep, but return the bigger ones.

Alan

Have any of you ever been bowfishing firstname? The pix you see of them with big fish and what looks to be a bunch is really a long night of hard work just like all fishing. I'll tell all of you right now me and two other guys back when there was water massacred the carp when they were spawning. Didnt bother anyone and dont think it hurt the population one bit. And bowfishermen arent as deadly as put on. It takes an average of app. ten shots to get one fishy. Now it might weigh 1 lb. or 100 lbs. I bet you guys also oppose the new rule that allows bowfishermen to take catfish now. I dont bowfish as much as i used to but out of all the hot days and long nights I've had maybe ten actual shots at cats. None of them over 2 lbs. I could've whacked more bass than that. But i didnt get either one cause of the game warden and laws. Also all the fish that are taken usually go to dog food or fertilizer in gardens. Not thrown out in a pasture. Just my opinion no offense intended just need to have an opinion here that isnt all catch and release.

Years back, Conroe was on the bassin boom, until Japanesse grass carp was introduced. The Coy they stocked ruined the lake and it was the fishermen who took time to replant native water vegitation back in conroe.

What vegitation does for a lake is far more important than what eats it. Grass gives fry a chance to survive, and no grass kills fishing.

Carp have been used to control grasses, but ended up killing the fishery.

Which one makes more money? bassing or carp fishing?

Its already proven that carp can hurt fishing.

Sorry, I'll slit a carps bellie in a heart beat and let it swim off.

A coyote should have its place in society, but ranchers will shoot one on the spot, not much difference.

It is all a matter of biomass folks. Based on how fertile it is, a given body of water can only support X pounds of fish, regardless of the makeup of the fishery. And into this count goes every fish in the lake, prey and predator alike regardless of species.
Now some folks like this balance of sportfish versus rough fish or that balance. And to each their own.
But if a body of water is overpopulated, with most species the harm is done mostly to that species. Just because the bass are stunted does not mean that the blugills or catfish or carp are stunted also, as they fill very different roles in the ecosystem.
But let a lake get overpopulated with carp and often the entire ecosystem suffers. Decreased vegetation and an increase in the waters turbidity (and one very often follows on the heels of the other) can do serious damage to a body of water, to the point that the fishery has collapsed and the only fish that can survive in the inferior water quality conditions is the species that created the issue in the first place...the humble carp. Long after everything else is dead and floating the carp will still be kicking, thanks to their ability to obtain oxygen from the surface.
I like the way a carp fights and sometimes even target them, but until they reach official sportfish status (and are protected by the laws like other sportfish) I too will not hesitate to do my part and take corrective action when those in charge of the management of the fisheries think it is necessary.

the fish you are talking about in conroe are white amur or grass carp, they are in no way related to common carp or buffalo that this thread as been talking about. white amur will desimate a lake common carp have not been shown to have ever hurt a fishery in texas.

what lakes have you seen this in were the only thing left was carp and they were floating due to lack of o2?? You will find that carp will always be the last fish to die, you see this and assume that because the carp are the last fish left alive so it must be there fault that all the other fish are gone.....YOU will find that if a lake is in this shape it is because of a outside factor most of the time its man made not because of common carp....unless you have other data to back-up your vigilante carp eradication program..also carp are not the fish that draw o2 from the surface, that would be gar....

"Years back, Conroe was on the bassin boom, until Japanesse grass carp was introduced. The Coy they stocked ruined the lake and it was the fishermen who took time to replant native water vegitation back in conroe."


The *slightest* bit of research would tell you that the white amur (Ctenopharyngodon idella) stocked to control weeds here are not carp (Cyprinus carpio). Carp (Cyprinus carpio)are not vegetarians, while white amur (Ctenopharyngodon idella) are. Koi (coy?) are simply carp (Cyprinus carpio) bred for color.


"What vegitation does for a lake is far more important than what eats it. Grass gives fry a chance to survive, and no grass kills fishing."

While I do not agree with the use of species to control other matters (be it vegitation on lakes, or insects in cane fields) these white amur were purchased by the state for this matter.


"Carp have been used to control grasses, but ended up killing the fishery."

See above, I do not agree it is a good idea, but then again, these white amur are usually stocked to eat *introduced* species of grasses.


"Which one makes more money? bassing or carp fishing?"


Is the basis for allowing an animal to live?


"Its already proven that carp can hurt fishing."


No, its already suggested. and again, are we talking carp or white amur?


"Sorry, I'll slit a carps bellie in a heart beat and let it swim off."

Brilliant. I'll do the same for striped bass, and those pesky florida strain largemouth.


Sometimes I'm shocked at the stuff I read.

I wish I had some special little emoticon that I could click on to give a warning to keep a topic civil? I don't, so I will just let everyone know that I am keeping an eye on this topic. You have done pretty good by keeping it informative and civil up to the last 3 or 4 posts, that's where there has been a decided change in the discussion.
Please monitor what you type and keep it "on topic".
Whatever you do, avoid a clash on this topic.

Ok guys...

First off,

I shouldn't have been so lazy as to preclude the topic with the fact that I am not talking about grass carp....I indeed feel that grass carp can be very benaficiary to certain environmental issues, but can also turn the whole deal sour quick. Grass carp can consume ALOT of vegetation....that's the reason they're stocked, but I don't think the proper homework was done when introducing grass carp, which as stated previously, is not a relative to common carp. The common carp is actually more related to a minnow.

Moving on, I'm including EVERYONE, including bowfishermen, to be in this discussion...in fact, that's a big plus...I want diversity in the discussion. I'm trying to get peoples outlook on carp, as well as buffalo.

I'm glad to see people are having an open discussion, but I STRONGLY believe that some of the perceptions that have been given to us, including me, of carp are false and usually a shakey argument.

I do believe bowfishing could be an asset to us carp fishermen, but under controlled circumstances. Make no mistake, I am not here to change any laws or sportsmen's rights....if any laws were to be addressed, I would definately say so to begin with...I just want to make that clear....lol.

I know this can be a vocal issue and please, by all means be vocal, but let's definately keep it civil. I e-mailed the moderators with a warning, lol, because these type of topics have had heated arguments. I'm not here to argue....to debate....if you want or feel it necesary, but I'm here to here opinion, belief, and generate productive dialogue. So far, I think it's going great.

Alan

When Coy was introduced into Conroe, the TPW called them grass Carp, coy. To me, a carp is a carp, and if its not a carp, correct the TPW for introducing them as such and calling them "grass carp".

This is not a flame or a pissing contest. I believe carp to be unhealthy for some lakes.

Carp has always been a rought fish and not worth cleaning. Since not enough people eat them, we was taught to control them on our own.

What is being introduced into Tyler, another type of grass carp. Sure are lots of people upset about it.

Could it be, I'm not the only one that feels the same way?

A goldfish is a colored fish that also eats algae and grass and was always thought of as part of the carp family.

I believe if I wanted carp to be looked at different, I'd first get them recognized as game fish, but their considered rough fish.
Its against the law to use game fish as bait, but not illegal to use rough fish.

White Amur, or "Grass Carp" (Ctenopharyngodon idella):

This is the species that is stocked to control vegetation. Notice it has a longer, more narrow body, a mouth that faces completely forward, the complete lack of Barbels around the mouth, and a triangular dorsal fin.

White Amur, as it has been stated already, eat almost exclusively vegetation, and can be very destructive to the habitat of any body of water if they are over stocked.

White Amur, and NOT carp, are the fish that are required by law to be eviserated if found in waters they are not legally stocked in.

This is the fish that was stocked in Conroe, and Tyler, and any other time you hear of "carp" being stocked to "control vegetation". Grass Carp is a misnomer, they are totally unrelated to Common Carp.

Just as people in Texas refer to the various Sunfish species ( Bluegill, etc ) as Perch, but none of the are in fact, Perch. True Perch, IE Yellow Perch, are nearly unheard of in Texas. But that doesn't stop people from calling Sunfish, Perch.

In the same way, people just refer to White Amur as carp, because it's simply a common, but incorrect name for them.

Saying that "a carp is a carp" and you will kill them all when you catch them, whether they are Amur, and legally must be killed, or Common Carp, against which there is no such law...

Is kind of like me saying that a "Sunfish is a sunfish" and saying I should be able to keep as many Largemouth Bass as I want, rather then the 5 fish limit, simply because they are a member of the Sunfish family.

Alright, I admit, probably a bad example, but that's how it sounds to me.
Common Carp ( Cyprinus carpio ):

This is the Common Carp. Notice they tend to have a broader, deeper body, they have a mouth that orients towards the bottom, and they have a long dorsal fin that starts in a point, and runs down their back, and especially, the two sets of barbels around their mouth.

These fish RARELY eat vegetation. Rather, they tend to eat things like Mussels, Crawfish, nightcrawlers, leeches, insect larvae, bloodworms, snails, dead fish, even live minnows when they can catch them.

Do they sometimes eat a little algae or vegetation? Probably, if they can't find anything else to eat. They do have a "sweet tooth." But often when they are seen "sucking algae" or prowling through the weeds, they are actually seeking out the things that live in the weeds, like snails, etc.

Live Mussels are a carp favorite. In fact, Carp Anglers around here often seek out mussel shells on the shore to indicate possible carp in the area.

Carp have what are called Pharyngeal Teeth in their back of their throat, just like Freshwater Drum do. Those are made for crushing up the shells of crustaceans.

As far as carp being considered a game fish, in most parts of the world they already are!

Carp were originally stocked in this country, in the late 1800's, as a Food fish! In fact, the very first fish stocking program ever in Texas was...

A carp stocking program.

But as waterways got polluted, many native fish died, and carp were one of the few fish that were able to survive in the heavily polluted waters. This is part of what started their reputation as a "rough fish."

By the time the waterways were cleaned up and other species were thriving, carp were already considered a trash fish.

But the fact is, they are not only one of the hardest fighting, strongest fish in US freshwater, but also quite edible.

Being a "Rough Fish" doesn't mean that you can't eat them, or that they don't taste good! Most people assume as much, but most people haven't actually caught, cleaned, and properly prepared them.

Smallmouth Buffalo, and Freshwater Drum, for example, both make excellent eating fish. I have caught, cleaned, and enjoyed both fish, yet both are listed as Rough Fish.

Back to the topic at hand.

Yes, Common Carp can occassionally cause problems for any particular water way. But so can any species of fish.

But really, it is White Amur that give Common Carp a bad name. Even die-hard Carp anglers agree that when not in absolute balance ( WHich is very hard to maintain with a stocking ) White Amur CAN and DO wreak havoc on an ecosystem.

We just don't like to see true Carp getting blamed for it when it's usually not their fault.

Anyway, attitudes in this great country are slowly changing towards carp, as well.

As you probably know, this spring a $250,000 prize was given out for breaking the TX state record Common Carp!

TPWD is considering them as an urban sport fish. In this years brand new regulations guide, there is an article all about Carp Fishing! Several years ago, that would never have happened!

Sounds like attitudes are already starting to change towards commcom carp to me!