Yeah, good ole poopy taste.

They are a good way to introduce kids to fishing. The times I have went this year I have only caught a few trout. I always take worms from the garden so my son catches at least something (sunfish, catfish). The times I have gone there are hardly ever people catching trout (probably wrong day, time etc..). Those trout are so small, especially when they put alot in the water.

Overall, it has its pluses and minuses but I think that it serves a purpose and can provide fun, fun, fun. Just wish that they would stock a lot of bigger ones !!!!

Well, I guess I'll put on my black hat. I'm not a fan of stocking the trout in the Guad. Ponds and most other tail races I'm ok with. Gives folks a chance to catch something all year long and whatever mistakes are made with trout (or most other introductions) can be fixed relatively easily. The Guad has already been altered to the point of no return by dams (flood control , so I don't mind as much) and the introduction of Smallmouth Bass. The intro of Smallmouth has led to the near extinction of the native and pure) Guadalupe Bass in the Lower Guad. I don't think that the trout situation could alter the Guad to that extent, but it just makes me uneasy seeing the special rules and regs and other special treatment they get now for a fish that can't survive without them and is as alien as they get to the watershed. My family and I have been stationed here in Fort Carson, CO for about 2 years now and I have learned much about this states fishery in that time and a little before to see what we were getting into. What the SMB did to the native Guads in the Lower Guad is very similar to what has been done to the native trout and other native species by the state sanction stocking and introduction. It seems quite a bit of these displacements were done at least with no regard to the native species if not on purpose to displace. The rainbow can grow larger and live in more diverse environs than the native trout. Now it has become an economical issue. The rainbow trout bring in tourists' dollars, which some put in higher regard than the native natural resources. So much so, that some of the native outdoorsmen (and women) suspect that the wildlife management may lean more toward what is good for the surrounding economics of an area and less toward the natural health and native beauty of an area.

I'm not saying that this would or even could happen in my native Texas, but when I see how much economical and political sway the trout already have in the Guad, I have to admit that it makes me uneasy.

Just a side note: Redbreasts sunfish were also introduced to the Guad and other Hill Country systems and I don't mind them. I guess I'm not against this stocking/ introduction because it's done and self-sustaining. There doesn't seem to be any long term changes or damage to the native species or habitat and no special treatment to sustain the species.

Ok, I'm done and am off my soapbox. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong and am more than ok with being wrong. I'm sure that there are folks on the TFF that are more in the know than myself and hopefully they will speak up and educate us.

Hybrids don't count for a species....We produced White female x black male hybrids at D&B back in '82, made a decent fish, but too difficult to do on a commercial scale with the available technology. Nowadays you can buy 'em in Arkansas. But $2 will only get you about 1/100 of a pound or so of them (a $2 crappie is going to be about a hundred count fish). Gets you about half a pound of trout.

The black stripe down the head is not necessarily indicative of a hybrid crappie, as many Eastern strains of black crappie carry that marking. The hybrids we produced in Crockett didn't have the head stripe at all. They did grow to remarkable sizes and did exhibit reduced fecundity (ability to reproduce), which is a plus for crappies in ponds.

Still not a good choice for urban fisheries. Very difficult to successfully manage, and doe not fit the "Put/Grow/Take" model of urban fisheries management.

Trout are especially good for kids, soft, no spines, hardly any teeth. Think about trying to take care of a bunch of kids catching hybrid stripers......bloody mess it would be.

Trout are, however, a bit bony when eating them......still, hard to beat as good eatin' fish.

Channel catfish fits the model as well, and as such is also a common fish for urban fisheries, especially in warmer months.

I've done both (not at the same time) in places as strange as the local public swimming pool.

Hmm how bout that. I see them more crappie in the river with the black stripe then the small creeks and stuff. The pond I fish for the rainbows has crappie in it there just super smart and hard to catch. The rainbow are really easy so everyone gets to enjoy it. They put around 3800 in there. I saw a place on the schedule that was getting 6000. But I think I would rather have channels then rainbows if that is my only choice.

Trout can and do survive and reproduce in the lower guad due to the cold water released from canyon dam. The state stocks sterile trout but GRTU stocked fertile fish

I fish the guad quite a bit and it's much more enjoyable to go catch 14-20" trout and 3 &4 lb smallmouth than 12" Guadalupe bass. Economically no one is gonna come spend money to catch guad. Bass.

The river changed when the lake was built. Past that, if it can sustain a trout fishery, go for it

I would rather my money go to GRTU to put trout there than my stamp money go to stock trout in a put and take fishery in the rest of the state.

Just cause something is native doesn't make it better. I'd rather shoot big axis deer instead of itty bitty hill country whitetail, I feel the same way about trout and smallmouth vs. Guadalupe bass

Well, that's tremendously short sighted and wrong. There are plenty of anglers on this forum, thru out this state and this country that find just as much value, if not more, in catching the Guad bass, especially in it's native habitat, compared to the introduced trout and SMB. It wasn't to long ago when Bassmaster did a whole story and year long event on the lesser known species of Black Bass. The B.A.S.S. Slam. I believe you can still accomplish that feat and get some certificate from B.A.S.S. if you'd like. I've caught a 14" fish from half the list. Just for personal enjoyment and because I really enjoy the style of fishing and locals that it takes to catch most of these fish.

I've read plenty of testimonials of those who feel the same way and enjoy catching the Guad Bass and some of the other smaller Black Bass species. I've also had the pleasure of meeting and talking to like minded anglers on this subject. Heck, even introduced some "big fish" guys to "little fish" game and they had a swell time and are often asking when we're gonna do it again. I don't think they're asking just to see my ugly mug.

Long story short, I don't believe that just because something is small makes it any less valid than something that is bigger. And I really don't believe in forcing out a native species to make room for another species, especially when both species can thrive in their native homes and the "big" one is a LONG way from said native home. I'd hate to get forced out of my home period, but it would double sting to get forced out to make room for some "bigger, better" Martian or, I dare say, Brit.

Lots of guad.bass in the upper guad, blanco,sabinal, Frio and llano and San Marcos rivers.

Your complaining about smallmouth and rainbow trout in an 11 mile stretch of river

I've met many a angler from all over who have came to the guad to catch trout. I personally target a allies

I've never met a person there out to specifically catch a guad

Not complaining; just showing concern. 11 miles of river may not mean much to SMB or Rainbow Trout range, but it's quite a big chunk gone when you compare it to the Guad Bass' range. Another 11 mile stretch gone and there would have to be real concern and special treatment for the Guad Bass. I guess I'm just saying that the keeping the status quo is ok, but anymore changes could really put the balance of the river system as we know it in a bind. I don't think there are any plans to expand or change anymore, but us anglers are not exactly the first to know. Just my

I don't get the trout thing, myself. I kinda get putting them in a pond so kids can catch something in the winter - although I think it's dumb and kind of cruel to plant fish where they can't survive.

The Guad is a whole different story. The hype around it just seems absurd. How on earth is a stocked fish considered a trophy or their temporary habitat deserving of a "trophy section" designation complete with special regs? How is a put and take fishery touted as one of the "top 100 trout streams in America"?

In my mind, the value of a trout fishery is in this hierarchy. Native trout = awesome. Native trout supplimented with stockers that hold over for multiple seasons = awesome. A fishery with only stockers but ones that readily hold over = pretty good. A fishery where all the fish die at the end of the year (or every other year) = meh. I mean - why not start a Trophy Tarpon fishery on the lower guad? I'm sure everybody would love to be able to catch a tarpon in a beautiful hill country setting. Just gotta catch 'em quick, they don't live long, lol.


Edit - I do/would support planting rainbows into bass lakes. NOTHING makes bass get bigger faster, lol.

Great discussion here guys.

TPWD does not produce rainbow trout in our hatcheries but we do purchase them. There are some fisheries that TPWD stocks with rainbow trout on a pretty regular basis such as the Guadalupe and around San Angelo (I'm sure there others I'm forgetting). Here in our East Texas district that encompasses Sam Rayburn and Toledo Bend we only stock small park ponds. We stock approximately 2,500 from our allocated amount for our office (Jasper City Park and Lakeside Park) and the rest of the fish are bought by groups at $1.25 / fish.

TPWD stocks RT to encourage youth fishing and thus future generations of outdoor enthusiasts which is needed to ensure the continuation of the states natural resources. The groups in our area that also purchase the fish do so to promote outdoor recreation and as a courtesy to their constituents (i.e. LNVA).

Rainbow trout is an excellent species in that they are pretty cheap (from a fish production stand point) and they are easy to catch, ideal for youngsters with little patience. To address as to why we don't do crappie or other species is that eventually they will reproduce and stunt in small ponds.

TPWD also stocks many local ponds with channel catfish and we view those stockings as a "put and take fishery".



Dan Ashe
Texas Parks and Wildlife Department
Brookeland, Texas
409-698-9114 ext. 230

Thanks for the post Dan. More channel cats please.