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Re: denton creek at 377 [Re: pro23baller] #7194713 02/20/12 05:34 PM
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dfwflyfisher Offline
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I'm pretty sure they don't have the legal authority to give a ticket... unless I'm mistaken:


Roanoke, Texas, Code of Ordinances >> PART II - CODE OF ORDINANCES >> CHAPTER 10 - TRAFFIC CONTROL >> ARTICLE 10.300 - PARKING REGULATIONS >> DIVISION 1. - GENERALLY >>
DIVISION 1. - GENERALLY

Sec. 10.301. - Oak Street; Highway No. 10.

Sec. 10.302. - Highway 114.

Sec. 10.303. - Commercial Vehicles, Boats and RV's.

Sec. 10.304. - Prohibited Parking.

Secs. 10.30510.319. - Reserved.

Sec. 10.301. - Oak Street; Highway No. 10.

(a)

It shall hereafter be unlawful for any person or persons to park a motor vehicle or any other vehicle on Oak Street or Highway No. 10 of the Town of Roanoke, Texas, between its north and south limits, in any manner other than parallel to the curb or sidewalk with the right front and rear wheels not more than eighteen (18) inches from the curb or sidewalk, and provided further that no motor vehicle shall be parked on said street by what is know as head-in parking. And it is further provided that there shall be no double parking of motor vehicles on said street or highway.

(b)

Any person violating this provision shall be fined as provided for in the general penalty provision found in Section 1.106 of this Code.

(Ord. No. 2005-141, 2, 12/13/05)

Sec. 10.302. - Highway 114.

(a)

No motor vehicle, automobile, truck, trailer, mobile home, camper, or other motor vehicle of any kind or character, or any part thereof shall be parked within ten (10) feet from the pavement on either side of State Highway 114 within the corporate limits of the City of Roanoke, Texas.

(b)

That any person, firm or corporation violating any of the provisions of this ordinance or failing to observe any of the provisions hereof shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, shall be fined as provided for in the general penalty provision found in Section 1.106 of this Code, and each and every day or fraction of a day during which this article or any part thereof shall be violated shall be deemed a separate offense and punishable as such.

(Ord. No. 2005-141, 2, 12/13/05)

Sec. 10.303. - Commercial Vehicles, Boats and RV's.

(a)

Except as provided herein, no commercial vehicle, boat, boat-trailer, or recreational vehicle (RV), including, travel trailers, campers, or motorhomes, shall be parked on any street or public right-of-way adjacent to any residentially zoned property. A commercial vehicle, boat, boat-trailer, recreational vehicle (RV), including, travel trailers, campers, or motorhomes, may be parked on any street or public right-of-way adjacent to any residentially zoned property for a period not to exceed forty-eight (48) consecutive hours for the purpose of loading or unloading.

(b)

No commercial vehicle, boat, boat-trailer, or recreational vehicle (RV), including, travel trailers, campers, or motorhomes shall be parked in the front yard or side yard of a residentially zoned property, within a utility easement, except on an all weathered surface driveway, including gravel, asphalt or concrete surface or on a paved parking space depicted on an approved site plan.

(c)

No truck tractor, road tractor, tractor trailer, semi-trailer, or similar vehicle shall be parked in front of or behind the building line of any residentially zoned property.

(d)

No truck-tractor, road tractor, semi-trailer, tractor-trailer, or similar vehicle with a payload or capacity of greater than one ton or more according to the manufacturer's classification or the licensed registered weight shall be parked on any non-residentially zoned property unless said vehicle is used in conjunction with a permitted business located on the lot; and the vehicle is parked on a concrete, asphalt or other approved, hard, all-weather surface.

(e)

"Commercial vehicle" shall mean any vehicle designed or used primarily for transportation of property or persons for hire with a rated capacity or payload greater than one ton or more according to the manufacturer's classification or licensed registered weight. A commercial vehicle meeting these criteria may include but shall not be limited to vehicles:

(1)

Registered to a business;

(2)

Bearing a business insignia; or

(3)

Bearing a commercial license plate.

(f)

Commercial vehicles may include but shall not be limited to trucks, tractors, road-tractors, truck-tractors, semi-trailers, tractor trailers, trailers, vans, step-vans, wreckers, motor buses, street or suburban buses, school buses and taxi cabs.

(g)

Any person violating any provision of this Ordinance within the corporate limits of the City of Roanoke, Texas, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon conviction shall be fined as provided for in the general penalty provision found in Section 1.106 of this Code. Each day that such violation continues shall be a separate offense. Prosecution or conviction under this provision shall never be a bar to any other remedy or relief for violations of this article.

(Ord. No. 2005-141, 2, 12/13/05)

Sec. 10.304. - Prohibited Parking.

(a)

A person commits an offense if the person leaves standing or parked a motor vehicle at a location where official signs, curb markings, or street markings prohibit such standing or parking.

(b)

A person commits an offense if the person leaves standing or parked a motor vehicle for a time period longer than permitted by official sign, curb marking, or street marking. When an official sign, curb marking, or street marking prohibits parking for an interval of three (3) hours or less, the prohibition is in effect between the hours of 7:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. of every day except Saturday and Sunday, unless otherwise indicated by the sign or marking.

(c)

A person commits an offense if the person leaves standing or parked a motor vehicle in the front yard of residentially zoned property, except on approved driveways.

(d)

A person commits an offense if the person leaves standing or parked a motor vehicle in the side yard or rear yard of residentially zoned property, except on approved driveways.

(e)

Any person violating this section shall be fined as provided for in the general penalty provision found in Section 1.106 of this Code.

(Ord. No. 2005-141, 2, 12/13/05)

Secs. 10.30510.319. - Reserved.


Re: denton creek at 377 [Re: pro23baller] #7195570 02/20/12 08:58 PM
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There's a sign that says no parking about 20 yards from where the path leaves the roadway. I didn't see the sign when I pulled in. My question is how far do you have to be off the roadway for the sign to count. Also, is the roadway distance from the roadway or from the edge of the shoulder? I was clearly off the shoulder of the road. It's either a very liberal interpretation they're applying or the officer was wrong in writing a ticket for where I was parked. I think the intent of the law is to not have people parked on the shoulder of 377. I get that. But this seems like a very liberal interpretation. If there's anyone that knows what the stardard is for a no parking sign is, where the roadway actually ends and what authority the signs have when I wasn't actually on the shoulder of the road I'd appreciate hearing back.

Thanks.


Re: denton creek at 377 [Re: BSmith] #7195608 02/20/12 09:05 PM
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georgeZ Offline
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Tough case. Guess you will have to take a long walk. I would recommend taking abike with you and park at the north side parking lot and ride your bike to the fishing spot. There is a trail toward north once you cross the railroad. You can get your bike all the way to the big turn, which produces a lot of sandies.

Originally Posted By: BSmith
There's a sign that says no parking about 20 yards from where the path leaves the roadway. I didn't see the sign when I pulled in. My question is how far do you have to be off the roadway for the sign to count. Also, is the roadway distance from the roadway or from the edge of the shoulder? I was clearly off the shoulder of the road. It's either a very liberal interpretation they're applying or the officer was wrong in writing a ticket for where I was parked. I think the intent of the law is to not have people parked on the shoulder of 377. I get that. But this seems like a very liberal interpretation. If there's anyone that knows what the stardard is for a no parking sign is, where the roadway actually ends and what authority the signs have when I wasn't actually on the shoulder of the road I'd appreciate hearing back.

Thanks.



Re: denton creek at 377 [Re: pro23baller] #7195832 02/20/12 09:47 PM
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I seen this parking problem last year to. I have not been to this place to park I go to the parking north of the creek and 377 no problems there but the walk up to the Blue Hole would be more then I think I could do. Seems to me that the Cops could be called and a rule of thumb as to what can be done and not should be available.
Looking on this forum as to right or wrong proves to be wrong Why? simple the forum is not the law and we as fisherman should try to find out what is the law.
If I have an idea as to what the exact spot is I would call the cops and find out what is the law. Ask for documentation on this to. Hey at least go to court and fight the ticket and ask Why was this not a spot to park in?
As to me Not sure I will ever see the "blue hole" don't like tickets and don't like to walk with the snakes.



Last edited by Denton Pond Jumper; 02/20/12 09:50 PM.
Re: denton creek at 377 [Re: georgeZ] #7195947 02/20/12 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: georgeZ
I took some pictures right before the hole. It was so muddy that I did not try to get to the hole at first, and the pics were taken before the last turn. I finally made to the hole from another spot but forgot to take some more pics.




Nice photos and that water looks like it would hold fish too...


Re: denton creek at 377 [Re: pro23baller] #7195954 02/20/12 10:11 PM
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Read the below. I got it off a website that attempts to answer questions whether they be legal or whatever. The lawyer's contention is that I wasn't on the improved roadway or shoulder. The no parking sign was for the improved motorway. There doesn't appear to be a definition of the sign affecting the area behind it or off the improved surface. I'll let everyone know where this goes.

Here is the link for you if you prefer to to there: http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/docs/TN/htm/TN.541.htm


SUBCHAPTER D. TRAFFIC, TRAFFIC AREAS, AND TRAFFIC CONTROL

Sec. 541.301. TRAFFIC. In this subtitle "traffic" means pedestrians, ridden or herded animals, and conveyances, including vehicles and streetcars, singly or together while using a highway for the purposes of travel.

Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 165, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.


Sec. 541.302. TRAFFIC AREAS. In this subtitle:
(1) "Alley" means a street that:
(A) is not used primarily for through traffic; and
(B) provides access to rear entrances of buildings or lots along a street.
(2) "Crosswalk" means:
(A) the portion of a roadway, including an intersection, designated as a pedestrian crossing by surface markings, including lines; or
(B) the portion of a roadway at an intersection that is within the connections of the lateral lines of the sidewalks on opposite sides of the highway measured from the curbs or, in the absence of curbs, from the edges of the traversable roadway.
(3) "Freeway" means a divided, controlled-access highway for through traffic.
(4) "Freeway main lane" means a freeway lane having an uninterrupted flow of through traffic.
(5) "Highway or street" means the width between the boundary lines of a publicly maintained way any part of which is open to the public for vehicular travel.
(6) "Improved shoulder" means a paved shoulder.
(7) "Laned roadway" means a roadway that is divided into at least two clearly marked lanes for vehicular travel.
(8) "Limited-access or controlled-access highway" means a highway or roadway to which:
(A) persons, including owners or occupants of abutting real property, have no right of access; and
(B) access by persons to enter or exit the highway or roadway is restricted under law except at a place and in the manner determined by the authority that has jurisdiction over the highway or roadway.
(9) "Private road or driveway" means a privately owned way or place used for vehicular travel and used only by the owner and persons who have the owner's express or implied permission.
(10) "Ramp" means an interconnecting roadway of a traffic interchange, or a connecting roadway between highways at different levels or between parallel highways, that allows a vehicle to enter or exit a roadway.
(11) "Roadway" means the portion of a highway, other than the berm or shoulder, that is improved, designed, or ordinarily used for vehicular travel. If a highway includes at least two separate roadways, the term applies to each roadway separately.
(12) "Safety zone" means the area in a roadway officially designated for exclusive pedestrian use and that is protected or so marked or indicated by adequate signs as to be plainly visible at all times while so designated.
(13) "School crossing zone" means a reduced-speed zone designated on a street by a local authority to facilitate safe crossing of the street by children going to or leaving a public or private elementary or secondary school during the time the reduced speed limit applies.
(14) "School crosswalk" means a crosswalk designated on a street by a local authority to facilitate safe crossing of the street by children going to or leaving a public or private elementary or secondary school.
(15) "Shoulder" means the portion of a highway that is:
(A) adjacent to the roadway;
(B) designed or ordinarily used for parking;
(C) distinguished from the roadway by different design, construction, or marking; and
(D) not intended for normal vehicular travel.
(16) "Sidewalk" means the portion of a street that is:
(A) between a curb or lateral line of a roadway and the adjacent property line; and
(B) intended for pedestrian use.


Sec. 545.058. DRIVING ON IMPROVED SHOULDER. (a) An operator may drive on an improved shoulder to the right of the main traveled portion of a roadway if that operation is necessary and may be done safely, but only:
(1) to stop, stand, or park;
(2) to accelerate before entering the main traveled lane of traffic;
(3) to decelerate before making a right turn;
(4) to pass another vehicle that is slowing or stopped on the main traveled portion of the highway, disabled, or preparing to make a left turn;
(5) to allow another vehicle traveling faster to pass;
(6) as permitted or required by an official traffic-control device; or
(7) to avoid a collision.
(b) An operator may drive on an improved shoulder to the left of the main traveled portion of a divided or limited-access or controlled-access highway if that operation may be done safely, but only:
(1) to slow or stop when the vehicle is disabled and traffic or other circumstances prohibit the safe movement of the vehicle to the shoulder to the right of the main traveled portion of the roadway;
(2) as permitted or required by an official traffic-control device; or
(3) to avoid a collision.
(c) A limitation in this section on driving on an improved shoulder does not apply to:
(1) an authorized emergency vehicle responding to a call;
(2) a police patrol; or
(3) a bicycle.


Obviously, a no-parking sign trumps this, but I think you have a good argument that you were not parked on the roadway, and secondly, you had not reached the sign yet. Your best bet may be to contact the prosecutor and explain the situation and see if he won't reach an agreement with you. But you definitely have a decent argument, especially if there was a good reason that you were pulled over and parked.


Re: denton creek at 377 [Re: pro23baller] #7195969 02/20/12 10:15 PM
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I think i'm just going to park at the bike park and walk to the blue hole. It's a long walk but I can use the exercise.


Re: denton creek at 377 [Re: KidKrappie] #7195977 02/20/12 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted By: fishin'aholic2
I think i'm just going to park at the bike park and walk to the blue hole. It's a long walk but I can use the exercise.

Ok can I ask what is the bike park and how long is the walk?
Mind you I may be parking at the bike park but it is not posted as such. LOL


Re: denton creek at 377 [Re: pro23baller] #7195981 02/20/12 10:18 PM
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" especially if there was a good reason that you were pulled over and parked.

And fishing is a good reason that you was pulled over and parked......
Ok that might not hold up in law LOL


Re: denton creek at 377 [Re: pro23baller] #7196105 02/20/12 10:43 PM
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It's on the north end above both bridge. It might be where you park. It's probably it's 4 miles total. I need the exercise so I don't mind. I might take my bike and go on the old road down to it.


Re: denton creek at 377 [Re: pro23baller] #7196153 02/20/12 10:53 PM
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Actually I think parking there for fishing is a good reason. I was fishing ACOE "PUBLIC" property. I wasn't tresspassing. I was clearly off the improved roadway and not a danger to the public. When I evaluated the parking spot I honestly thought I'd be ok. My "intent" was not to break the law. Based on what I've read though I think the officer is being a bit liberal with his interpretation. You might even consider it negatively biased and trying to run fishermen off??? I'm just saying.. But that's why just reaching out and having a reasonable discussion with the prosecutor and discussing the improved roadway thing along with my intent would hopefully make a difference. We'll see.


Re: denton creek at 377 [Re: pro23baller] #7196180 02/20/12 10:57 PM
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Another thing I just thought about...I, like fishin'aholic, will likely make the walk down 377 to get to the trail. We either find a place to park on the South end or we park at the MTB Trail Bike Parking Lot on the North end. Either way we now have people walking up and down 377 to get where we want to go. Sounds a lot more dangerous that just letting people park in a reasonable area off the road.


Re: denton creek at 377 [Re: BSmith] #7196629 02/21/12 12:47 AM
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Let me give some more details about the parking:
Last year (or two years ago), the glass on my truck was shot at while parking on the side of 377 because the parking lot between the railroad was full. I got zero deductible on insurance so that was ok with me. But I never park on the roadside any more. I filed a police report and also was told by the officer that It was OK to park on the side of 377, but not on 114. There were several other cars were shot at in the same season.
Later on, I think somebody posted that a car was stuck on the railroad, which cause the closure of the parking lot on the west side of 377.
I begun to park on the east side of 377 but drive down there could be challenging for some, just be careful especially after raining. You can see the path from 377.


Re: denton creek at 377 [Re: pro23baller] #7197087 02/21/12 02:19 AM
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George,
I tried to park on the East side first. Made a mess of things. Before I realized how bad it was I was too far along to stop. Then I realized I couldn't get all the way down the path. Tried to go back and ended up sunk to the floor boards. Was able to rock it out but it was one of those times I thought it wouldn't matter that I had 4wd. Ended up having to get a bit of momentum and was able to drive up the embankment. I was a bit concerned there for a while.. But I'll take your advice and try the East side...AFTER it dries up a bit....


Re: denton creek at 377 [Re: BSmith] #7197356 02/21/12 03:14 AM
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bsmith, i plan to go this friday after work to the hole, i can take you to there if you have time.


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