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Re: Miliken video about tournament industry- sponsors, etc [Re: grandbassslayer] #14911100 11/28/23 03:14 AM
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He did not say anything new within the PE world. It is a dog eat dog world, and they all work together at it. Everybody on this forum wanted the fishing industry noticed, grow the sport, so wantabees can can get paid to be blowhards.

Well, it got noticed.

The biggest fish will rule the pond, sort of like BPS first ruining the “mom and pop” retail tackle industry, and then they put tackle producers out of business with their one sided contracts.

Moritz Chevrolet - 9101 Camp Bowie W Blvd, Fort Worth, TX - Monte Coon (817) 696-2003
Re: Miliken video about tournament industry- sponsors, etc [Re: shanetx] #14911128 11/28/23 04:08 AM
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Originally Posted by shanetx
Jesus I got into bass fishing (so i thought) to get away from electronics and the corporate world i have lived in for 20+ years now.


I know right!

Re: Miliken video about tournament industry- sponsors, etc [Re: grout-scout] #14911153 11/28/23 07:59 AM
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about half way, or a bit less iirc.

Re: Miliken video about tournament industry- sponsors, etc [Re: grandbassslayer] #14911262 11/28/23 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by grandbassslayer
Originally Posted by shanetx
Jesus I got into bass fishing (so i thought) to get away from electronics and the corporate world i have lived in for 20+ years now.

Nothing is stopping you from just going fishing.



True which is what I do now but I wanted to scratch my dried up midlife crisis competitive itch too..


Also - I guess I'm the guy He is talking about since I got a bass boat (although used and under 20k not new and 90k) during covid?

Re: Miliken video about tournament industry- sponsors, etc [Re: grandbassslayer] #14911401 11/28/23 03:58 PM
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I watched it again. Some of the subtle things he touched or eluded to and how I took it.

What actually makes a person buy a particular bait, a boat, rod, reel etc? Do prostaffers, pros, influences etc have any real impact on getting Joe Q public to the cash register? Basically do those who want sponsorship dollars have any real value to a company.

What is a reasonable amount that the benefactors of the anglers spend should be reinvested in sponsorships, trails etc.....

How do they determine who gets said dollars?

There are some harsh realities about the PE model. Right off the bat when a PE buys a company they are buying it to sell. The initial impact on profits when a PE steps in is for them to go down. If they are buying some little company that was grown grass roots it probably had little to no debt. The PE is gonna use debt so day 1 there is an interest expense. The PE is also gonna charge a mgmt fee. That's how they get paid on a day to day basis, the PE will also take a chunk of the sale price when they hopefully succefully sell it. The PE is gonna install a pencil pusher or 3 because mom and pop didn't have a statistician on staff or maybe a CFO. Now they have added a pile of costs to their new business and they have to make that up. They don't usually want saving by sharing accounting or other primary functions with other companies they own because they want to sell it as an entity that functions in and of itself so they don't go after economies of scale like that so they have to drive profit another way and that's where issues can begin. A good PE is gonna try and grow it, scale it out, take a regional brand national etc. A bad PE or a PE that is struggling to get a brand or company scaled out is gonna start cutting costs, taking short cuts, etc etc to prop up the financial side and make it look better so they can dump it on some other PE. The money shot for a PE is to take a company public, that's their home run. It's rare. Generally once a company goes into PE it gets passed around to other PE companies like pieces on a monopoly board. And typically there is a time frame in a contract with investors in PE. They have to get this type of stuff done within a certain window. The contracts don't allow for an investor to withdraw for a certain window.

Re: Miliken video about tournament industry- sponsors, etc [Re: shanetx] #14911421 11/28/23 04:17 PM
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Mark Perry Offline
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Originally Posted by shanetx
Originally Posted by grandbassslayer
Originally Posted by shanetx
Jesus I got into bass fishing (so i thought) to get away from electronics and the corporate world i have lived in for 20+ years now.

Nothing is stopping you from just going fishing.



True which is what I do now but I wanted to scratch my dried up midlife crisis competitive itch too..


Also - I guess I'm the guy He is talking about since I got a bass boat (although used and under 20k not new and 90k) during covid?



Honest questions here. How does any of this truly affect your own experience? Most trails you can register online. Some you still need to pay the TD. So you get registered, show up, launch and go fishing. You show up, weigh in and go home. You literally control 100% the amount of interaction you have with others. Occasionally yiu might fet someone that cuts you off or crowds you but that happens as well when fun fishing. What about any of that truly affects your own experience?


As for the videos, podcasts and social media stuff again you 100% control that. You control what you see or read. You can enjoy fishing recreationally or tournament wise without giving a thought to who is sponsored by who or who is not fitting laid by a company.

Re: Miliken video about tournament industry- sponsors, etc [Re: grandbassslayer] #14911462 11/28/23 04:58 PM
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PE isn't the only issue concerning sponsorship dollars. Patch pirates are a big culprit as to why companies are tightening up the money (or investing it in other means). You can invest some money in a guy who has made it to the highest level of the sport and gets you exposure, or you can not invest a dime (other than product) into every crum-munching high-school kid or flat bill wearing wanna be who will get you the same exposure for a discount, sticker, and stock tackle warehouse jersey (speaking of tackle warehouse, visit them online for all your fishing needs. From soft plastics to crankbaits they have it all. That's tacklewarehouse.com. Use code STFU23 to get absolutely nothing). Anyways, why buy the cow when the milk is free?


Live Daringly, Boldy, and Fearlessly....Embrace the Challenge So That You May Feel the Exhiliration of Victory.

Re: Miliken video about tournament industry- sponsors, etc [Re: grandbassslayer] #14911468 11/28/23 05:14 PM
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Lol

Re: Miliken video about tournament industry- sponsors, etc [Re: Mark Perry] #14911475 11/28/23 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Perry
Originally Posted by shanetx
Originally Posted by grandbassslayer
Originally Posted by shanetx
Jesus I got into bass fishing (so i thought) to get away from electronics and the corporate world i have lived in for 20+ years now.

Nothing is stopping you from just going fishing.



True which is what I do now but I wanted to scratch my dried up midlife crisis competitive itch too..


Also - I guess I'm the guy He is talking about since I got a bass boat (although used and under 20k not new and 90k) during covid?



Honest questions here. How does any of this truly affect your own experience? Most trails you can register online. Some you still need to pay the TD. So you get registered, show up, launch and go fishing. You show up, weigh in and go home. You literally control 100% the amount of interaction you have with others. Occasionally yiu might fet someone that cuts you off or crowds you but that happens as well when fun fishing. What about any of that truly affects your own experience?


As for the videos, podcasts and social media stuff again you 100% control that. You control what you see or read. You can enjoy fishing recreationally or tournament wise without giving a thought to who is sponsored by who or who is not fitting laid by a company.




True it does not affect my day to day fishing experience as just a weekend hobby guy but there is a desire to be part of flourishing community, use products that help smaller / local businesses - Knowing my membership dollars for BASS or buying a product from MLF actually helps the common mid level pro fishermen. Support a sport and product that has values that align with my beliefs. Having a hobby is not just doing the hobby but immersing yourself in the culture to find out the culture is pure [censored]. I thought it was just a bunch of good ol' boys sitting around talking about the latest bites on the new swimbait - Gotta shuffle through [censored] to find it.

Re: Miliken video about tournament industry- sponsors, etc [Re: J.H.S.] #14911485 11/28/23 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by J.H.S.
PE isn't the only issue concerning sponsorship dollars. Patch pirates are a big culprit as to why companies are tightening up the money (or investing it in other means). You can invest some money in a guy who has made it to the highest level of the sport and gets you exposure, or you can not invest a dime (other than product) into every crum-munching high-school kid or flat bill wearing wanna be who will get you the same exposure for a discount, sticker, and stock tackle warehouse jersey (speaking of tackle warehouse, visit them online for all your fishing needs. From soft plastics to crankbaits they have it all. That's tacklewarehouse.com. Use code STFU23 to get absolutely nothing). Anyways, why buy the cow when the milk is free?


I agree 100 percent. 99 percent of tourney guys have zero business having sponsors, getting discounts, etc etc. They don't move the needle for companies, they aren't making the registers ring. Etc. The fishing industry needs to put their dollars to needle movers, like the golf industry does. The rest if they have a sponsor at all it should be John's lawn service and that is between that guy and john because their buddies, etc. I try and spend my money at a local shop. If she didn't have any wrapped boats etc running around it wouldn't bother me a bit. I have told her to fire the whole bunch and keep the money for herself. I'm damn sure not buying a boat because Joe blow that fishes TTT runs one, or any other pro to be honest. And anyone who actually pays for a boat brand sticker for their truck should be publicly shamed.

Re: Miliken video about tournament industry- sponsors, etc [Re: grandbassslayer] #14911489 11/28/23 05:49 PM
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And the "pros" need to realized they are now competing with the online influencer and you tubers, and in my opinion the pros are getting killed as far as their ability to sell products by these guys.

Re: Miliken video about tournament industry- sponsors, etc [Re: WAWI] #14911502 11/28/23 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by WAWI
And the "pros" need to realized they are now competing with the online influencer and you tubers, and in my opinion the pros are getting killed as far as their ability to sell products by these guys.




The days of paying a guy to fish and maybe work a couple of boat shows a year are over. If a pro is being outlasted and outworked on the sponsorship side of things then reality is that pro probably is not bringing in enough ROI for sponsors. They gave rwo choices, step up their promotional game ir sit and bitch about it.
If someone wants to be a pro then like most things it ain't gonna be easy. Stop sitting around expecting other people to finance your dream and figure our a way to make happen.

Inflation sucks right now, costs are up everywhere and the last thing I want to hear is some guy bitching that no one wants to pay him to go fish tournaments. Too many of these guys live in a bubble and think the industy can't survive without them. Tournament fishing is a niche even in fishing. Some better learn to read the room before they start bitching

Fishing in general, tournament fishing and the pro leagues will be just fine without them. BASS lost 85% of their roster 5 years ago including almost every bigger name pro. Fast forward to today BASS is thriving and doing better than ever with a new crop of pros. If that ain't a lesson some of them need to pay attention to then not sure what is. KVD retired this year but yet there are pro trails still scheduling tournaments next year. Everyone is replaceable.

Re: Miliken video about tournament industry- sponsors, etc [Re: grandbassslayer] #14911507 11/28/23 06:10 PM
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Without going to look at their Facebook, whatever look at the list of guys who are on the Elites or just left and rattle off what brands they use, who their sponsors are, etc.... people can't, because people don't give a poop. Now one of the ones you would know is the one who made the video in question.... and you knew it before he ever fished an open. Now ibdont know what boat he runs, I don't know what rods he uses, I know he scopes, and I damn sure know he is involved with 6th sense. Hell I wouldn't know who 3/4ths of the guy on the Elites or MLF are if they sat down at a table with me. The whole concept of giving a bunch of money to people nobody knows to go fishing is just wierd. Buying ad space with the organization makes way more sense. I do remember those annoying Minn Kota commercials that I have to sit through when I watch live stream.

Re: Miliken video about tournament industry- sponsors, etc [Re: grandbassslayer] #14911512 11/28/23 06:13 PM
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Lots of thoughtful posts on this thread. Some, not so much. sarcastic

The good news, of course, is that our economy is still mostly consumer driven, so buy accordingly. The irony, of course, is that most of us on this thread have full-on supported the tax policy and regulatory environment that makes PE so lucrative, so stop your crying. Tax policy and regulation have cycles just like businesses. PE deal flow has slowed significantly. The pendulum swings. In between, lots of time to fish. yes

Re: Miliken video about tournament industry- sponsors, etc [Re: WAWI] #14911534 11/28/23 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by WAWI
I watched it again. Some of the subtle things he touched or eluded to and how I took it.

What actually makes a person buy a particular bait, a boat, rod, reel etc? Do prostaffers, pros, influences etc have any real impact on getting Joe Q public to the cash register? Basically do those who want sponsorship dollars have any real value to a company.

What is a reasonable amount that the benefactors of the anglers spend should be reinvested in sponsorships, trails etc.....

How do they determine who gets said dollars?

There are some harsh realities about the PE model. Right off the bat when a PE buys a company they are buying it to sell. The initial impact on profits when a PE steps in is for them to go down. If they are buying some little company that was grown grass roots it probably had little to no debt. The PE is gonna use debt so day 1 there is an interest expense. The PE is also gonna charge a mgmt fee. That's how they get paid on a day to day basis, the PE will also take a chunk of the sale price when they hopefully succefully sell it. The PE is gonna install a pencil pusher or 3 because mom and pop didn't have a statistician on staff or maybe a CFO. Now they have added a pile of costs to their new business and they have to make that up. They don't usually want saving by sharing accounting or other primary functions with other companies they own because they want to sell it as an entity that functions in and of itself so they don't go after economies of scale like that so they have to drive profit another way and that's where issues can begin. A good PE is gonna try and grow it, scale it out, take a regional brand national etc. A bad PE or a PE that is struggling to get a brand or company scaled out is gonna start cutting costs, taking short cuts, etc etc to prop up the financial side and make it look better so they can dump it on some other PE. The money shot for a PE is to take a company public, that's their home run. It's rare. Generally once a company goes into PE it gets passed around to other PE companies like pieces on a monopoly board. And typically there is a time frame in a contract with investors in PE. They have to get this type of stuff done within a certain window. The contracts don't allow for an investor to withdraw for a certain window.


Company I work for sold to a PE a few years ago. Company value has increased quite a bit and I am expecting something to happen in 2024. My guess is that we get passed to another PE firm. Hopefully in the end, we get sold to a public company and what little stock I own gives me a good return. Then it is off to another smaller sized firm.

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