I've been noticing more and more Texoma guides on Tawakoni. Most all of them are fishing live bait.

This has me worried for the future of Tawakoni. I really wonder if the lake can sustain the extra pressure and kill.

10 extra guides at 4 customers a day means 80-100 hybrid/stripers and 700-1000 sand bass per day being taken off the lake.

I'm pretty sure that the Texoma guides couldn't give a squat what happens to Tawakoni as long as it puts money in their pocket. If ya all do let's see a donation to the Tawakoni Sportsman Association so they can put some extra fish in the lake.

Its gonna hurt it no doubt and if this flooding on Texoma gets any worse than it is right now you aint seen nothing yet. There are way to many guides in Texas. The state really needs to put a moratorium on guide license like they did in the Gulf of Mexico. That way there would be no new guide license issued and anyone wanting to start a guide service would have to purchase a existing license,also groups like Tawakoni Sportsman Association could buy licenses and retire them. We need guides but somewhere down the line there is gonna have to be some limitations.

The effects are going to be VERY negative. Has anyone else noticed that the size of the sandbass on TWAK has gotten progressively smaller. Not to mention that several of the texoma guides not all already think they own the lake. I've had several of them be VERY unsportsman like in the past few weeks. I understand making a living, but I'll be glad to see most of them gone.

Let me add that there are also a good few that are great people and have the best of intentions. People should help conservation in these down times and keep only what you need. Keeping 100 white bass is ridiculous. And keeping a 4 man limit of striper everyday is also ridiculous. Keep some release the rest.

I've done everything in my power to stay on Texoma but the recent flooding has turned the water muddy over half the lake with lots of debris and 50 ft trees floating over the lake. Most guides are gonna fish the red river when the water is being released fast enough but I'm coming to Tawakoni starting today. I don't want to step on any toes or make anybody mad but I have to do something to feed my family. Last year was tough on us all here on Texoma. If something were to happen on Tawakoni like it has on Texoma then I know we would absorb the guides from there just like when golden algae got Possim Kingdom. I don't fish bait though and I think circle hooks would help decrease mortality rates, but that's up to TPW. We we're just starting to see recovery on Texoma and now we are flooding again. Texoma will come back soon. There are lots of small fish and it won't take them long to get big enough to keep. Most won't bother to make that drive but I am. Most of the guides will be on the red river than there will be coming to Tawakoni In my opinion. I've seen as many as 50 guide boats on the river in a 1 mile stretch down there. Guides should be respectful to other guides and other anglers. It's a shame some act the way they do. Call me directly on my cell or call me out on here if you feel I act like that. I'll start doing all my trips on Texoma as soon as things get close to normal. In the mean time I'm grateful to be able to fish other lakes as I need to and I'll be splitting my time between the two lakes.

The absolute last thing you need is to get the state any more involved in saying who can have a licence of any kind and who can't. The Gulf of Mexico rules should be used as an example of what NOT TO DO. Things down there are a real mess.The cumbersome poorly thought out rules have made greed, corruption, and outright theft the norm. The free market can be a cruel bit+h but it will effectively dictate the number of guides that can make a living in the long run.

I can see how those heavily involved in the sportsmen association could get a little frustrated, but they are putting fish into a public lake. This is Texas. In two months we may very well be griping about the new drought. Things will work out. This wet spell will come to an end soon and everybody will go back to their own playground.

I know tha guys up north do things different (fishing style) and that's fine. All I ask is don't use the existing guides on the lake as your fish finders. Plenty of places on the lake to find fish. Most guides are more than capable to find your own fish...if I'm with customers and alone catching fish...please don't pull right up nxt to me and start fishing. It's a big lake,

Also, if you don't have a trolling motor on your boat, please don't motor in and screw up schooling fish for everyone. I've seen this happen way too much lately.

When the Brazos lakes went down in the early 2000's Lake Bridgeport was ASSAULTED by up to fifteen more guides. It had the fish, so the lake did survive. Once the limits got a little harder most moved on.Almost all of these guides were good people. Of course there were a few bad apples who were out of business a short time later.

Should raise the prices on guide licenses. Would not bother me a bit.

Whitney is starting to get some of this extra pressure as well. This being the first year in a long time that keeper size stripers can be caught in numbers the number of guide boats have exploded. I hope that they are not killing too many of the small fish, so the fishery will continue to be good.
I believe this type of thing happened to a lakes I fish. The lake was known to produce good numbers of fish. Started seeing a lot of guides, and the numbers for those fisheries dropped. Most of the guides went on to other lakes or out of business. The original ones are left, and the fishery took a couple years to recover.
Don't get me wrong, I am not against guides. I am friends with some and have hired a bunch of them. We use guides several times a year. Especially, if I want to see a new lake, or if I want to learn a new technique that someone is known for. I just think that there can be too many in a certain spot.
Tawokoni is a big lake. I doubt one extra guide would be noticed, but I am sure 10 extra guides running trips, everyday pulling out limits for their clients would. I am also sure that it would make the public holes very crowded. That will increase the competition for the easy fish for their clients, and therefore making it unpleasant for the private fishermen just wanting a family outing on their own boats.
Rude guides are not exclusive to any one lake tho. I make a point of setting up away from guides. There is more than one hump or school of fish. I have had guides on more than one lake, see us catching fish and run over to set up on top of us, or if our fish are on top, run through the school. I don't mind you fishing close to me, because my spot lock will keep me in a small area. Just don't fly up close to me without good control of your boat, not speak, and act like I should move just because you put your name on the side of your boat. I understand that you need to catch fish to get paid. If you speak, and we are catching fish a certain way, I'll tell you what we are doing. It doesn't make you a bad guide just because what is working today is different that what you started out doing. I would appreciate it if I was paying you, for you to find out what was working today and then start us on doing the same thing.
Like stated above, free market will win out. When the numbers and size aren't there anymore, people will stop paying for these trips. Then these guides will move onto the next hot lake. I believe the good ones, that truly know their lake will survive. The others will have a hard time. Lazy, rude people will struggle to stay in business. This is true no matter what the business is.

I'm one of the Hubbard gang. I'm on the board of RHSA. Like Tawakoni we stock Hubbard with hybrids. Several of us took a day off and went to Tawakoni yesterday. I wanted to fish by the Dallas pump station so we stopped by there. We met a guy that was the only other boat there. Todd in our group quickly recognized his new boat from a recent post and asked, "Are you John Blasingame?" It was and we spoke for ten-fifteen minutes. We were talking to John about the lake. One of our guys, Keith, jumped on John's boat and we ended up fishing and calling each other to spots when the fish were on. A lot of us use guides as a diversion from the rat race. Most of us are good fishermen. But going together with your buddies with a guide is just a great, great time. I'm pushing 60. Hard to type that as I feel like a kid still- especially when fishing. But in all my years of using guides all over the country. I've only had one bad guide. Meeting and fishing by John was a good time yesterday. Now to the point. With Takwakoni and all lakes obviously the hybrids are a non-renewable resource.

To me the daily limit should be changed statewide. Makes no sense to keep so many. The pressure is building and will continue building on Tawakoni for the foreseeable future. We all read and one could say the lake is becoming a victim of it's own success. Guides come and go, but like life the strongest not only survive they thrive. Some guides won't survive the present conditions. So the others have to adapt to survive. And it would be good for everyone to give back to LTSA, and RHSA. It's just common sense. We can have a say in our future fishing by donating. The more that we donate the more fingerlings we can purchase. Finally Matt Cartwright has been my go to guide at Tawakoni. Matt will survive. Things will get back to normal. In the mean time like Rodney King so famously said one time, "Can't we all just get along?" Let's not forget this is fishing we're talking about here. Last time I checked this is still America and people are free to fish where they like. That includes the guides. These men and women are some of the hardest working people you will ever find. They just want to work. I pray every day. God is first in my life. Pray for our lakes and the weather. The guides will weather the storms. Peace.

Sounds like old Tawakoni is getting the pinch, and so far 3 people suggested donate to LTSA so they can stock more fingerling... Good luck with that and what you hope for is the blue catfish won't eat all those fingerling before the guides even see them...

If you think 10 Texoma guides can put the squeeze on Tawakoni, wait until After September 1, 2016, and in a year or two when the number of bluecatfish hatchlings increased multiple folds in old T-wok... Do you think those juvenile catfish like to eat hybrids and striper babies? Just saying.

Some body need to do some thinking before turning on some new guides or advocating cutting bag limits of hybrids or sandbass... just saying.

Good luck with that? Lot of people do care enough to donate. Their turnout at the LTSA tournament and auction is good every year. A lot of us from Hubbard support them. People can talk in life or people can do. We choose to do. Of course there is a mortality rate. We have done a lot of studying with the help from the State. There's always going to be a percentage that survive. We look at the glass as half full. I guess we will take our chances. We work our butts off to raise the funds. And I put my money where my mouth is. I donate and I also have a breakfast at my docks on Hubbard. The last two years that breakfast raised $2,500 and $2,700 respectively. They are already talking new limits on catfish on Tawakoni. The same discussion needs to happen on hybrids. No one has all the answers. A lot of us are just trying to create a better fishery. We've gotten to become friends with TPWD in the process. They are all for what we are doing. At the end of the day it's just a lot of guys that have a common purpose. We want great fishing. Some choose not to participate and that's fine. We have made some great friends in the process.

Think what old school guides like jimmy and joe think about it...back in late 90's I used to hit twak up often and there were very few guides. Last few years they have increased MEGA,here at texoma we have always had a ton of guides. One thing for sure is we have been influenced and from it we are also trying to start a sportsman association and put some fish in my home lake which is flooded 75% orange AGAIN during HIGH SEASON and we have been kicked in the balls multiple times in last year and after it being the best fishing for large fish maybe ever. Boo hoo I know but jeez just get over it I could rant on and on but i haven't

Put checkpoints at all the ramps and make sure the Texoma Guides can't launch... That will solve the problem

I'd like to see a limit on hybrids of 1-2 fish. Take the sand bass size up to 12".

The guides really need to start educating people that it's not necessary to kill everything you catch. Take no more than you can eat at one or two meals. I'd bet that most of the fish that get killed on guided trips goes to waste.

The resource is not unlimited. If you don't respect it you will lose it. If people managed their deer lease like guides do the fish in the lake you would be hard pressed to find a deer.

IMHO there's no reason to kill a large hybrid or striper on Tawakoni. If you want to eat fish catch sand bass. Same with the large blue cats. Keep those genetics in the lake. Keep the 3-7 lb fish which are much better tasting anyway. Killing a large blue cat is like killing your prize milk cow once you milk her.

Fishboy frank, you didn't read the rest of my paragraph. But first let me say this, LTSA is a pro on how they raise money for hybrids and stripers stocking to supplement TPWD stocking, and I repeat to supplement TPWD stocking. LTSA understand this and I have not heard any of their organizer get on the Internet and talk like they own the lake, or talk about cut bag limits of whitebass or hybrids like you do. I think they have a better logic than you do, and I may be wrong, but the whole point of increasing number of fish is so that people can catch more fish, duh! And what exactly is your purpose or logic? So you raise money to stock some fish in supplement to TPWD stocking and you now want to cut the number of fish people can keep? People are better off without you, no thank you.

Now to my original comment, I wrote good luck with that and what you hope for is the catfish don't eat all the fingerling that LTSA stock. It's not meant to be anti LTSA raising money like you put it. What I'm thinking about is after September 1, 2016, new catfish regulations will keep too many big catfish spawners in lake Tawakoni and millions more little catfish will compete for the limited food source in the lake and they will eat the hybrids and stripers fingerling and that will be counter productive to LTSA stocking afford.

Let's say LTSA stock 100,000 hybrids fingerling in the lake, but in just say 3 months period, the millions of excess juveniles catfish eat 100,000 young hybrids fingerling, your luck of improving hybrids fishing is not so good, is it? Theoretically speaking, of course.

Hi Chris- I heard about your plans to stock. Anything we can help with let us know. We learned a lot of lessons last few years. The best thing that comes out it is the camaraderie we've developed. We are all good friends now. It's about a lot more than fishing trust me. Praying you guys can catch a break. Regards.

Agree 100%! Quotas change as conditions change.

I read all of your post. I'll just leave your logic to you. And saying what you said about me is so taken out of context and misspoken. I never said anything you alluded to. Own the lake? I've been fishing Hubbard for 35-years. Have made hundreds of friends and helped hundreds learn the lake. Not one will say I own the lake. My wife's family built the first house on the lake before it was impounded. If anything I have some history with this lake. That's it. You obviously don't understand how the State process works. I've worked with the State. Have you ever attended a local TPWD meeting for input? The purpose and logic is the original point here. Until the lakes improve change the limits. The State does it all the time. That's why the handbook is reprinted every year. I have enough people that know me and you are completely off base. Trust me I get the math. I'm a math major. No need to go down this rat hole any longer. But please don't judge me. You don't know me.

RHSA and LTSA are a bunch of great guys that's trying to improve there lakes. I have donated to both groups and see the results in both lakes. Guides have to feed their families just like other folks. When we turned our first Baby Hybrids loose on Hubbard they were released in the middle of the lake. I asked the biologist want they be eaten out here, will they survive? His answer was don't fish go up the creeks to spawn how many fish are waiting on them up there. Not all survive that's nature, so when you stock its adding to the survival rate. Thank you RHSA and LTSA for helping more Hybrids survive those MONSTER CATFISH!!!!

I also agree 100%. Technology has made it easier than ever to go out and catch a limit more consistently.

LMAO, and is it a sin to eat fish of any sizes? You want to use the guvimin to dictate what people can eat? You people don't think, or do you? Hybrids and Stripers in Tawakoni don't reproduce like cow, THEY'RE STERILE for crying out loud. Lmao. Those fish are put and take fish, they are meant to be caught and take home to eat.

And on catfish genetics, I am going to just say bulls. They all came from Lake Livingston, if genetics has any scientific significant TPWD wouldn't get rid of the big brood catfish and run their tails to lake livingston to catch smaller brood catfish.

While at it, how many millions of little catfish do you want in a lake, blue catfish lay more 20,000 eggs per every 10lbs of their body weights, do the math people.

To Fishboy Frank, fair enough I don't judge you but don't judge me with statement like "you obviously don't understand the State process..." I do, too well their State "process", I'll be glad to debate you offline, nothing personal, just curious how much you understand fish ecological system, especially Lake Tawakoni ecosystem. Peace.

I find it amusing that this whole post is what the guides should do to improve fishing.
I don't know what percentage of people that fish with guides but it is very small compared
to the general public. How many people get tickets for undersized or over limits fishing
with guides. If you have any hope improving fishing you better include the general public.
A lot of people are under the misconception that guides take most of the fish which is a joke.
Johnny

Yes Johnny the PUBLIC does do a lot of damage. I have seen undersized fish kept as well as way over limits. Thing of it is they DON"T care . Hats off to all the guides for following rules and making an attempt to give back to the resource. Because there are alot of people who don't do that. They just take and take some more
Donate today

Johnny a voice of reason. Thank you. We know of poaching situations here because we see it. We all have a vested interest in this together. I would like to think if this was in reverse the Texoma guides would be accommodating. Many of these guys know each other as it is. Thanks for a great insight. Is a point I hadn't thought about. JV, Hubbard guide, is always posting poachers caught by TPWD on Facabook. They are out there that's for sure.

I pay for my fishing license so basically I help donate to ALL lakes. Just my 2cent. why change the limit? These fish have life spans why else would TPW set their limit the way it is?

The Texoma guides will take a lot of the fish out of the lake, they are good at what they do

Limits of 5 for Hybrids/Stripers will help for a while

Hopefully Texoma gets back to normal, which I think will be a few years, They have to make living or go out of business.

I think they need to cut the limits back on the whites and catfish . All the lakes are getting hit pretty hard now days.

Red Ranger and SALLSUE. I agree and most on here are in agreement. Most. Have enjoyed the conversation on this thread. Most of it. I told someone this morning. "A fire goes out when you stop putting wood on it." No more wood for me. Time to take my "ignorant" self to Church. And for the record I will never keep my religion to myself. It's not religion to me. I've started a Church On The Dock. We'll be praying for all the guides and all the lakes. That's what matters to me. My friends know me. Sometimes in life it helps to check oneself in the mirror and see what is truly reflecting back. Disrespecting people won't gain you a lot of friends or followers. Peace.

Amen My RHSA brother!!

I have seen posts from guides on this forum to think about catch and release while I see their hero shots of "limits" of dead fish... That stopped my donations to the LTSA
I appreciate the efforts of Michael littlejohn to limit the harvest of blues on tawakoni, in my uneducated way of thinking, it will be beneficial in the long run.
I have read the texoma guides saying "I am just trying to feed my family"... We all are and that is the profession you chose
Limits need to be reduced on fish that do not reproduce on this and every lake in Texas.
Guide licenses should be renewed each year with the price of the license increased to cover some of the costs to restock what they take from lakes that have been built and maintained with state and federal funds. They will just pass that increased cost along to their customers, just like they did when gas was over $3 per
gallon.

Well said sir.

I am old enough to remember when there was no limit on white bass and Texoma didn't yet have stripers. I remember the first hybrid stockings. We are really fortunate to have a year round fishery. Limits are set to allow consumption and have enough brood stock to keep the population at sustainable levels. We've got it good!

I may not be too far behind you Skeeter! You are so right. We got it good. I have friends from all over that come to Texas and fish. They are blown away at how well our lakes are sustained. That's no accident. It's takes a lot of work by the State and now the private sector also. Great points.

Future of Tawakoni ........ Ray Hubbard, Cedar Creek, Cooper, Whitney and Texoma etc. (in pic below)


Proud supporter of the LTSA and RHSA !! And I pay taxes and keep up with yearly fishing and hunting license

Does it look like I care?

Future is bright...

Yes it is....Love it!!

If you just want fish to eat go the the fish market, a lot better tasting than stripers/hybrids and a lot cheaper than driving to the Lake.. Go to one of the talapia lakes then you can keep all you want and use whatever method you desire.

Thanks Terry for keeping it real. I met Terry and Ray on the lake one day years ago. This was before Max and Reese were born. We've become like family and brothers through our friendship and RHSA. Every breakfast, fundraiser tournament and auction they are there. I said in an earlier comment it's about much more than fishing to many of us. We even have a group text that stays lit up all day. We pray when one of us is sick or one of us is in need. One of our buddies has meningitis right now. We are there for him. We are supporting a very sick guide right now that needed spiritual and financial help. People have really stepped up. See what some people don't understand if we are in it for the relationships first- the fishing comes second. If any one of our crew needed help people would be lined up to help. So yea- we raise money for RHSA. But the real benefit is each other. We benefit from each other. Oh and Jeff who I posted to in this thread. Lost everything to the tornado. We were there for Jeff also. It's what you do for others that means the most in life. Fishing just happens to have brought us all together.

Doc whiplash for president 2016!!! It was so windy brutal windy day on big T today but we got Sandies & stripers can't wait to have hybrids in the mix!

I just want some gold fish now. This was very entertaining.

Thanks for the photos, Whiplash. Adorable kids for sure. In the words of Al Sharpton, "you are keeping it real".

Dear lord why are y'all knocking on these Texoma guys, they're just trying to make a living and survive. Sandbass breed like rabbits, they're everywhere and with the high water years we've had there won't be a shortage of them. Tpwd does annual surveys of fish populations, if hybrid and striper populations look bad, theyll change the limits, it's as easy as that. It's not the texoma guides fault that the lake is nuclear orange and unfishable, they have to go where the fish are so they can keep their businesses up and running and make ends meet. This isn't a permanent thing either, texoma guides probably don't like that they have to drive all the way to tawakoni just as much as you tawakoni guys don't like them out there. the majority of the hybrids and striper are stocked by the state, the lake is a public place and the fish are a public resource which our guide licenses and fishing licenses go to pay for. They have just as much of a right to those fish as anybody else.

Nick- That pretty much covers everything I tried to say/explain all weekend. I'm assuming it's Nick from your tag. Thanks for being another voice of reason. I was beginning to think I'd lost my mind. The jury may still be out on that one!

This is my first post on this thread so I certainly haven't been dogging any of the guides for coming down to Tawakoni and running trips. But, all the posts I have seen in this thread speak to numbers of Hybrids/Striper. I see nothing that speaks to the quality of the fish, which on Tawakoni has been very good for many years now. That is my area of concern more-so than quantity. I can go almost anywhere that has them and catch fish, I love Tawakoni not only because it is basically in my back yard, but because of the quality of the fish.

Tawakoni, as a fishery, is a completely different dynamic than Texoma. If Tawakoni is treated just like Texoma is, the fishery will not sustain it's status. What will the guides do then?

I see a lot of talk here about bag limits, but none about minimum length. Why not up the minimum length on Tawakoni to say, 20" or 22", forcing people to return those now barely legal fish, keeping the average size of the fish where it is or better? I am not a numbers guy, I'd rather catch 3 truly nice fish than 10 average fish. And an average fish on Tawakoni is considered above average on just about any other lake in the region. I realize we all have our own views, and don't seek to detract from anyone's personal view of the situation. I simply feel there are other ways to accommodate the added pressure without doing unnecessary damage to the fishery, and simply throwing more fish in the lake will not be beneficial for at least a few years down the road. Unfortunately, TPWD is largely reactionary on things like this, so any changes on their part would likely be too little, too late.

(Tangent)
One thing I will say, I hope the guides coming down here from Texoma will do, is leave their "Texoma Ways" behind. I refuse to even go to Texoma anymore, and guides are the reason why. I have experienced, myself, and heard many other stories about guides being complete freaking jerk-offs on Texoma. I know it's not not all Texoma guides, but it is more than a few for sure. I hope those coming into our back yard will respect the fact that we regulars on Tawakoni have a harmony with the regular guides, to the point where I don't witness the jackassery that I've seen take place on Texoma. Because I, for one, will not be so amicable as I have been on Texoma. I will not take my toys and go home, I am home. I certainly don't own the lake, and would never expect anyone to treat me as if I do. But the level of disrespect I've witnessed and dealt with on Texoma is shameful in my opinion, and reflects badly on the entire fishing community.


Overall, I think the whole thing is workable, as long as ALL parties involved understand the situation, respect one another, and respect the resource from which they seek to make money.

It would be nice if more catch and release were done with the hybrids. It would definitely serve the interests of the guides if the lake were jam packed with 15lb hybrids.

I do think it is a good time to have a serious discussion on both the size and bag limits on Hybrids. They are a limited resource. I always hear people say "they have a short life expectancy so you might as well eat them" or "they can't reproduce so there is no reason to catch and release from a conservation standpoint". I looked up the All Ages Lake Records on some of the most popular hybrid lakes in the state. Listed below are the dates those records were set.

Tawakoni- 1988
Cedar Creek- 1999
Richland Chambers- 2003
Palestine- 1997
Ray Hubbard- 1984

These dates tell me that there are VERY VERY few fish reaching anything close to their life expectancy. I realize that some people catch records and either don't know it or don't care. However, you would think that out of all these popular lakes that somebody would have submitted at least one record in the last 10 years. I almost never see monster hybrid pics posted on this forum. It would be cool to have the potential to catch some monster hybrids. To do that you either need to stock more or harvest less.

Personally I would like to see a more regional approach to lake management. Maybe lakes that get higher pressure need to have the limits changed. Also lakes go through cycles. For example Richland Chambers has been in a rut the last few years. In my opinion even white bass limits should have been decreased to help the population rebound. TP&W already has Regional Biologists that are over given lakes. You would think regional management wouldn't be that big of a deal to implement. If done correctly it could also give local anglers a voice in the management of their "home" lakes.

Guys-

We just spent about an hour cleaning this thread up. If we can't keep the personal problems off this topic, it will get moved again. Let's also try and keep it on topic. This is a Tawakoni discussion. Whether you support or don't support RHSA can be saved for a Ray Hubbard discussion.

If a post in this thread makes you angry, please step away form the computer for a few minutes before you post so we don't have to edit your response.

Thanks for helping us!

Thanks for returning and cleaning up the thread J.P.

People love to use the "they're just going to die anyway" excuse to justify killing things. IMHO it's like killing the cow for a glass of milk.

The problem is that by the time the TPWD goes through the "process" it's too late. Unfortunately I've seen the same thing in the Pacific NW.

Used to be you could keep sturgeon between 36 and 72 inches. It takes a sturgeon a minimum of 10-15 years to hit the bottom end of that slot and close to 40 to hit the top. Sturgeon only spawn once every 2-3 years. The slot got smaller over a couple of decades. Went down to 38-54" nose to fork of the tail. It was found that almost all sturgeon over 60" were breeding females.

A few years back the sea lions at Bonneville Dam started eating sturgeon. Bonneville blocks most upstream movement for breeding sturgeon so during breeding sturgeon there's a huge number of fish in the river below the dam. Used to be you could fish all the way up to the dam. Then a deadline was put in place and finally had about 10 miles of river where you couldn't fish for sturgeon.

Long story made short. Between the sport fishermen, gill netters poachers, and sea lions the population of sturgeon in the river took a huge hit. Sturgeon retention(keeping them) is no longer allowed for sport fishermen. It will be a minimum of 20 years before it's allowed again. The idea is to allow those fish at the bottom of the slot to grow to the top of the slot.

Mind you the sea lions are still slaughtering sturgeon in mass numbers at the base of the dam and the gill netters still are allowed "by catch" of over 1000 per year of all sizes.

The sport fishermen who actually funded the sturgeon fishery took it in the shorts.

Here in Texas where the fishery is much more fertile and on Tawakoni which has the ability to turn out some world class fish the majority of the fish never get the chance to reach their potential as they get killed as soon as they're legal size, or before by those who don't care. I mean they're just going to die anyway so what difference does it make?

You can either manage a fishery like Tawakoni like a food market or a trophy lake. There's a reason one of the best catfish guides on Tawakoni wanted it treated as a trophy fishery. He witnessed the decline in both numbers and size of the blue cat population.

Same thing is going to happen with the hybrids and stripers.

I'd like to challenge the guides working Tawakoni to preach catch and release on the hybrid and striped bass. Ask people to only kill what they can eat in one or two meals. Otherwise look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself where you're going to work when the population of these fish crashes.

"What you talkin bout Willis"?

Think of it like deer hunting. If you continue to take game from the wild, the population will decline to the point where the state steps in and imposes seasonal fishing. Having lived up in Illinois, I was shocked to hear I could only fish during certain seasons. Same with the sturgeon and salmon out in Oregon, there are seasons for fishing there too; well there was on sturgeon. It really doesn't matter who's doing the fishing, guides or local fisherman, conserving the species should be on everybody's mind so that Max, his brother, and my kids have something to catch.

Now then, let's not forget, that limits and regulations are only for those who care to follow them. I've seen people catching and keeping undersized fish in high numbers and it sickens me. I understand people may be hungry, but I'd like to see people being held accountable for their actions. God bless the wardens who are tasked with this chore; they obviously can't be everywhere.

Don't even get me started on what's going on with salmon in the Pacific NW.

Ideally everyone would follow the law. But we all know that doesn't happen. But to justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior is a tactic of a three year old.

Wow, makes me happy to have 5 ponds stocked with bass,catfish and blue gills, no pressure here.

Same here .... But 4 ponds

To answer the original question, the texoma guides are probably not going to effect the lake at all. Unless something has changed, guides do not keep any fish for themselves. The fish that are taken out of any lake are harvested by guys just like you and me that buy a fishing license too. The fact that they are on someone elses boat should make no difference. I think most guys that hire guides go maybe once or twice a year. If you think about it, is it that unreasonable that they harvest 30-60 fish in an entire year? After all, their license cost helped to put those fish in the lake for everyone to enjoy. Yes every fish that is taken is one less that can be caught in the future but low lake levels resulting in suboptimal white bass spawns, and hybrids and stripers flowing over the spillway in high water situations likely have far more impact on the long term future of a lake than several dozen additional anglers harvesting their limit a few times a year. And that doesn't factor in other predators like tens of thousands of comerants or a lake full of monster catfish that will kill whatever they can get in their mouth 24/7 year round. Just seems like blaming 10 guys that are helping the average fisherman enjoy a day on the lake with some friends and maybe put a few fish in the freezer or have a fish fry with their family is unreasonable.

Proper limits will respect the fishery. Proactive rather than reactive seems to be a formula that will save this fishery. Rudeness by guides should fall under an ethical requirement set by the state with a formal process that should allow for revocation of Guide Licenses. As a teacher I can have my Teacher's Certificate revoked for a multiplicity of reasons. Why should another 'Public' service agent--Which guides are--- whether they admit it or not --- not be held to similar guidelines?
Its a tough topic but worthy of note for protection towards this fishery and others. Every honest fisher person should have an 'accountability' bone and should help. For the ones that don't...continually turn them in with complaints to friends, Parks and Wildlife and Local Authorities so that someone will have enough of it and start some action happening. Nobody likes rude behavior it's just that too few speak up to the right people to do anything about it. I turn in EVERY fool i see taking fish over the limit to the game warden- even stories that I hear about after the fact, every Guide that is unethical or even rude will have a formal complaint against them and I will tell EVERYONE I come in contact with about their behavior and do it on a frequent basis.

Thank you ATM97 for putting the discussion back in the water of Lake Tawakoni and talking about those resident species that are most relevant here. Yours is the first post that I have seen here that cover lake Tawakoni ecosystem. It's my belief that only discussion like this will lead to a real workable solution. Comparing apple and orange, lumping totally different species from thousands of miles away in very different circumstances is a diversion, I simply fail to see a convergence of wild salmon and sturgeon spawning to the sterile put and take hybrids and stripers in Tawakoni. Following the lead of blue catfish to attain "world class" status for hybrids and stripers in lake Tawakoni is rediculous. What is "world class" hybrids, or stripers, for stripers in our Arkansas is around 60 lb, too far fetch in a shallow lake like Tawakoni. Also termilogy like "meat market" is just totally off base, you can't buy game fish, the fishermen has to learn how to catch the fish, it's called fishing, fishermen go fishing, they catch fish, they bring fish home... or get skunk and bring home nothing....

Btw, the picture is priceless, a picture speaks a thousand words.

Thanks JP for the post being restored. I wrote JP a note and he wrote me back and was true to his word. I think there has been a lot of good discussions taking place here. Look at the number of hits and comments if there is any doubt. It's pretty clear to me this a timely subject. Also through this whole thread Bank Angler 50 and I have shared some amazing PM messages. Please remember this. We are all different people with different thoughts and backgrounds. I decided to reach out to Bank Angler and am so glad I did. He has a storied background. When we cut through all the emotions and passion we are all just fisherman that care about our resources. Well we also need to care about our greatest resource- one another. Peace.

Thank you Frank

The majority of the salmon are raised in hatcheries.

If you can't connect over use of a resource leads to less of a resource I can't help ya.

Also Costco had hybrid striped bass for sale a couple of weeks ago. Go into any Asian fish market and you'll see them for sale.

Lol, go to meat market with your wallet, go fishing with your fishing gears, skills and lucks. A fisherman prefer to eat his fresh caught fish, most men understand this but some don't, that's ok, but anymore discussion on this is pointless.

On the use of or conservation of resources, in my opinion, we need to look at the whole picture and take a holistic approach to really find a workable solution. ATM97 touched on several good points, tens of thousands of comerants, a lake full of monster catfish, remember the picture? , and fish going over the spillway, etc. Plus, I my add some fish went up the rivers and have not returned.

Did y'all know that hundreds of people have been catching limits of hybrids below the spillway for over a month now? My friends and I had been catching quite a few of 9-10 lb hybrids at the spillway since the first major flood. Now keep in mind once the fish went over the spillway they can't return to the lake. There are more hybrids being caught below the spillway then what the guides are catching on the lake. And this is just one example where you just see one symptom and react with absolute fervor and diverge the whole discussion from ever finding the cure for the disease. We all enjoy fishing at Tawakoni, I love that lake and want nothing less for the next generation, let's look at the whole picture and find a workable cure that will have lasting positive impact on this special lake.

Then go for a meet haul on the other side of the dam.

I have been on the dock at holiday marina since i was 8 yrs old, before it was called the "guide dock" My family still has a house boat on that dock, and I have an RV spot at holiday. Some of my favorite times is going down there to see what the guides bring in. Now days I really enjoy seeing customers come in with their guides and they have opted to release most of the fish and only keep what they think they can reasonably take home to eat without it going to waste.