So you need 200lbs of carp to bait varmits? You can try to justify it any way you want. I can't convince you. Just be aware that not every game warden is going to view that the same way. There is a difference between taking what you need and Wanton Waste and they know it. The ones I have spoken to will fine you up to $500 per fish. Personally, I really don't care if you take a few fish to bait traps, etc. But claiming to need 200lbs of fish to hunt varmits off of is just plain abuse.

Do whatever you want...I can't change the way you were raised. When I was young and got my first Red Rider BB gun, I went out and shot at every bird I could find. Was it fun, thrilling, and challenging? Heck yeah! Did I know it was illegal? No. Did I get in big trouble? YES. Luckily my Dad didn't make me eat those birds, but he taught me to have a purpose for what I killed. It's a shame we aren't sending this message to our kids anymore. And we wonder why there is so much poaching.


I'm not going to change my mind. Your arguments are falling on deaf ears. Your time would probably be better spent over on your bowhunting forum with like-minded people.

So there's so much poaching because us bowfishermen don't eat what we kill?
Give me a break. I know we won't and don't see eye to eye but let's not get
carried away either. My point was that we shouldn't let the wrongs of a handful
of people dictate the whole sport. Otherwise they would shut down deer hunting
because of these poachers you talk about. Are there "poachers" in every sport,
you bet ya. Neither of us condone it, whether it be fish, deer or ducks. When it
comes to bowfishing though, it's a legal sport that hasn't and isn't hurting
any species (past the arrow in it's head), TPWD allows it so why hassle us over it?

Alligator gar, they seem to think we are hurting the population, I get it, we just
don't believe that they're right and neither does the science.

Don't take my words out of context. I never said bowfishing was the reason we have so much poaching. I said that the mindset of killing without purpose is the cause of a lot of poaching. This is why we can't have logical arguments.

If you have a legal purpose for what you kill, I have no problem with it. Take it to a processor, a dog food manufacturer, a bait shop, whatever. That's fine.

I have already made the point that there have been no studies that suggest harvest during a significant active spawning event can be detrimental to Gar populations. Can you please either reference research done that correlates to the proposal or quit referencing articles that have no correlation?

Regardless what's legal or not, at some point you have to question the mind set of wanting to kill something just for the hell of it. And that is something I just don't "get" and never will.

dmunsie, we think we are doing the lake a service by taking out a few numbers of a species that have none or nearly no edible value and not one is taking these fish out of the lakes and rivers. It's the very same as shooting gophers/prairie dogs, coyotes and other varmints.

I'm a little concerned, how much time have you actually spent on these Rivers, specifically
the lower Trinity and Brazos?

With all this talk about having science based decisions, do you have any scientific reports which show that bowfishing for "species that have none or nearly no edible value" has any significant benefit?

Thank you for the reply. Do you yourself eat freshwater fish? If so...which species of fish do you eat?

Just out of curiosity, do you think that the existence of any non-native species in our lakes is always a bad thing? All I keep hearing is that these carp are invasive, and that they need to be taken out of our waters. Have you ever considered any of the benefits they may provide? There are many creatures that are FAR less edible than carp, but still provide valuable benefits to our ecosystems.

I would like to see the data on how much of an affect bowfishing has on Carp populations. See, we have a lot of Bass fishermen that are blaming Gar for the decline of Bass populations on certain lakes. We know, however, that bass are not a Gar's first choice for a meal. They are opportunistic, and will eat whatever is easiest to catch. In your own words, you believe that you are doing a service by removing carp, so you must think that bowfishing does have a significant affect on Carp populations. Before you take this post out of context as well, I am not blaming bowfishermen for the decline of Bass populations on these lakes. All I'm saying is that without knowing what effect mass slaughter of carp has on the population, we may depleting a valuable food source for Gar, which would directly correlate to them consuming more game fish. And don't tell me that a bowfishing tournament is not a mass slaughter of fish...the tournament results are posted online for all to see. Though carp are not technically native, they have been in our lakes and rivers since the late 1800's, so we have never really known our ecosystem without them. They now play a part in how our fisheries work, since they have been here before we were doing any type of fisheries studies at all. So my point is, if bowfishing DOES have an effect on Carp populations we need to know the repercussions of that. If it doesn't have any effect, then in your own eyes you wouldn't be justified in wasting the fish since you wouldn't be doing anyone a service.

I think the idea to protect gar is about as smart as protecting rats. I agree, they have no edible value......or any other value to the lakes. Would be fine with me if we had open season on them to the point of extinction. I appreciate the fact that there are bow hunters out there that help rid the lake of trash fish like gar and carp. I don't appreciate the fact that my taxpayer money is being used to protect gar and carp.

Maybe you should take the time to read the thread instead of jumping in on an argument in which you have no valid knowledge or pertinent insight.

This would be a good time for bowfishermen to post any scientific reports which show that bowfishing is good for aquatic ecosystems. We often hear the justification that bowfishing significantly controls non-game and non-native fish for the benefit of game fish. This must be based on scientific studies, right? So please provide these studies or give a clue as to where they can be found. The alternative is to admit such studies have not been done yet and it's just an opinion. A response either way would work.

Another vote for bow-fishing efficiency being capable of complete species destruction.
Interesting to note the lack of response from the bow-fishermen to this comment.

How long was choke canyon open to commercial fishing for gar? Several years best I can remember and there are still plenty of gar still in the lake.

And just how would you know what my knowledge or insight base is? I know there are more gar on Texoma than you can throw a stick at thanks to the same bad regulations your proposing state wide.

Its baseless regulations like this that make it more and more obvious that local communities are better and smarter at regulating their own waters than unaccountable government bureaucrats.