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Re: Indian burial grounds found at Ray Hubbard
[Re: Bill Waldschmidt]
#6688324
09/30/11 11:04 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,246
Doug E. Fresh
TFF Team Angler
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TFF Team Angler
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,246 |
Wow, this thread got good...
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Re: Indian burial grounds found at Ray Hubbard
[Re: vejatabul]
#6688784
10/01/11 02:13 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 15,681
Lakeguide
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 15,681 |
I think I picked up the crazy lady one rainy night around White Rock Lake, but when we got to her house she wasnt in the car anymore. Frieked me out, the seat was wet and everything. Dissapeared, just like the Hubbard lady. Maybe if we go to her house we will meet her folks and find out she died in an Idian Reservation or something. ![bolt bolt](/forums/images/graemlins/default/bolt.gif)
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Re: Indian burial grounds found at Ray Hubbard
[Re: Lakeguide]
#6688836
10/01/11 02:28 AM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 319
CenterLine
Angler
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Angler
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 319 |
Was she the one wearing a wedding dress?
BASS - 34 CATFISH - 2 SAND BASS - 6 PARTNER - 2 BOAT DOCK - 4 STUMP - 16
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Re: Indian burial grounds found at Ray Hubbard
[Re: 2Fish4everything]
#6689142
10/01/11 04:18 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 380
nvc_fshrmn
Angler
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Angler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 380 |
...with Texas locked in a record setting drought, the sinking water levels have turned the lake into something Indiana Jones would love. Texans have recently uncovered 8,000-year-old secrets, reports WFAA Dallas.
Both fossils and Native American tools have turned up at Lake Whitney. You have to go back at least 20 years since anyone has seen the formerly remote underwater caverns that have been exposed by the historic drought. For some visitors it has been exciting and new. But for others it has been a lesson in criminal law.
It's against Texas and federal regulations to remove Native American artifacts from archaeological sites. But WFAA reports burial sites from ancient times have been disturbed. The 955-acre park is located near the ruins of Towash Village, an early Texas settlement named for the chief of Hainai Indians, who moved into the region in 1934. So far, law enforcement has arrested 30 people for committing the crimes against history. Each was fined thousands of dollars and placed on probation. Some of the dig sites have been repaired at a huge cost -- as much as $30,000.
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Re: Indian burial grounds found at Ray Hubbard
[Re: nvc_fshrmn]
#6689271
10/01/11 05:24 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 23,013
Bill Waldschmidt
TFF Guru
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TFF Guru
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 23,013 |
...with Texas locked in a record setting drought, the sinking water levels have turned the lake into something Indiana Jones would love. Texans have recently uncovered 8,000-year-old secrets, reports WFAA Dallas.
Both fossils and Native American tools have turned up at Lake Whitney. You have to go back at least 20 years since anyone has seen the formerly remote underwater caverns that have been exposed by the historic drought. For some visitors it has been exciting and new. But for others it has been a lesson in criminal law.
It's against Texas and federal regulations to remove Native American artifacts from archaeological sites. But WFAA reports burial sites from ancient times have been disturbed. The 955-acre park is located near the ruins of Towash Village, an early Texas settlement named for the chief of Hainai Indians, who moved into the region in 1934. So far, law enforcement has arrested 30 people for committing the crimes against history. Each was fined thousands of dollars and placed on probation. Some of the dig sites have been repaired at a huge cost -- as much as $30,000.
Our judicial system doesn't move that fast... How could they possibly have been fined and put on probation already? And "repaired" means they poured concrete over them so that no one will ever get to see what was there. Real smart.
Last edited by Bill Waldschmidt; 10/01/11 05:25 AM.
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Re: Indian burial grounds found at Ray Hubbard
[Re: Bill Waldschmidt]
#6689366
10/01/11 10:05 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,682
Duckcreek Davy
TFF Celebrity
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TFF Celebrity
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,682 |
I've always been of the belief that artifacts do nobody any good buried in the ground. Bring them up and display them. I assure you, the native American who manufactured the tool or point, etc....would more than likely be quite pleased to know that several thousand years later people are admiring his craftsmanship. Wouldn't you?
Now, desecrating graves is another story altogether, These sites are best left alone, but if excavation is warranted, then it should be done in a scientific manner by trained archeologist with eventual re-internment in mind.
A whole lot of good any of these artifacts or fossils are belonging to the greedy clutches of the federal government. They don't want you to have them.....they don't want you to have ANYTHING!
Dave Morris ![](http://mysite.verizon.net/res1wq6w/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/donttread.jpg) "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." --Thomas Jefferson,
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Re: Indian burial grounds found at Ray Hubbard
[Re: Duckcreek Davy]
#6689480
10/01/11 12:43 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 380
nvc_fshrmn
Angler
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Angler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 380 |
...the federal government. They don't want you to have them.....they don't want you to have ANYTHING! I have to disagree with you on that. The federal government really wanted me to have that letter that i was being audited.
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Re: Indian burial grounds found at Ray Hubbard
[Re: nvc_fshrmn]
#6689558
10/01/11 01:45 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 380
nvc_fshrmn
Angler
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Angler
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 380 |
Here is the article from WFAA
by CASEY NORTON / WFAA Bio
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partslifer said on September 30, 2011 at 11:07 PM
Texas Historical Commissions Mission Statement: To protect and preserve the state's historic and prehistoric resources for the use, enjoyment and economic benefit of present and future generations. ----------------------------------- How is letting stone arrowheads and stone Indian tools stay in the ground helping the use, enjoyment and economic benefit of present and future generations. People can't enjoy them when they are covered over with water, or in the ground. Nobody can use them in a display to show at museums if they are buried. There is no economic benefit for the state if they are left in the ground. What is the benefit for present and future generations by having them stay in the ground??? Is the THC Mission Statement partially false??? And what about "historical" metal items in the ground?? How do they protect and preserve items that have been rusting in the ground for many years???
kittenfish said on September 30, 2011 at 7:03 PM
You are incorrect anenigma. These fossils and relics are PROTECTED BY LAW and anyone taking them ARE thieves and looters. Too bad they aren't handing out jail time as well as the fines.
blktgr said on September 30, 2011 at 5:34 PM
So leaving them buried underwater for eternity makes sense but saving them for further generations doesn't? I don't get this story. It's ridiculous to call a minor site with a few broken arrowheads an "archealogical site" and then flood it without doing anything to gather the artifacts for historic preservation. No harm no foul - let the amateur crowd have a go at it. What's the difference? Re: Turning up on EBay? These are common relics, not worth enough to take the time to sell them.
stopthelunacy said on September 30, 2011 at 1:51 PM
what a bunch of scumbags. some of this will probably show up on ebay
woodward34005570 said on September 30, 2011 at 1:51 PM
thats right , spend money and resources on this not the border..............
anenigma said on September 30, 2011 at 1:32 PM
The terms of looters and scavengers are not unnecessary and inappropriate. Explorers or treasure hunters would be better. Look up the definition of looting you you'll it doesn't fit the actions of the people.
bigtexjef said on September 30, 2011 at 1:27 PM
Just be thankful that there is not copper in there.
DALLAS - Sinking lake levels have exposed some of Hill County's hidden secrets.
Fossils and Native American tools from eight thousand years ago are easy to find at Lake Whitney, and looters are taking advantage.
They used to be buried in underwater caverns, but the drought has evaporated that protection.
"The looter and scavenger comes and digs up the site," said U.S. Army Corps Engineer Brad Demsey. "They just destroy all that and leave it to the side."
Even in remote parts of Lake Whitney that were once buried under concrete for security, scavengers unearth and discard valuable history.
There are fossils and Native American tools from prehistoric times.
Texas and federal laws ban the removal of Native American artifacts from archaeological sites, but burial grounds have been disturbed.
It has been decades since the lake has been this low. Demsey said it has been 20 years since anyone has seen the caverns.
Authorities patrol Lake Whitney and have made 30 arrests. Violators were put on probation and fined thousands of dollars.
But, state and federal agents fear the only the thing that can truly protect the historic artifacts is enough rain to end a historic drought.
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Re: Indian burial grounds found at Ray Hubbard
[Re: 2Fish4everything]
#6690181
10/01/11 08:41 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 27
Ketchum
Outdoorsman
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Outdoorsman
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 27 |
It sure needs to rain so you guys can go back to fishing and quit spreading rumors and tales.
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Re: Indian burial grounds found at Ray Hubbard
[Re: SadSack]
#6690957
10/02/11 01:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,127
Texas Smoke
Extreme Angler
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Extreme Angler
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,127 |
Being a Native American we were taught to leave those places alone. Let the Grandfathers and Grandmothers rest. These people are not my tribe but would respect there resting place. They could be Caddo or Comanche most likely Caddo.
Where we now live was a camp for we have found different stone tools that were used. Lot of chipped flint and the only place that has Sugar Maple trees around. When you find Sugar Maples you know that you are very close to a old camp site as that would be one of the trade items and gifts to a different tribe or a honored visitor.
As far as the Crazy Lady, Yes you guys got snookered. Would bet a good camp knife on it.
Redman I'll trade you some blue beads or whiskey for the knife. ![rolfmao rolfmao](/forums/images/graemlins/default/roflmao.gif) Greatness !!!!!!!!
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